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A 1974 Review of D&D
CleverNickName writes "Boing Boing pointed me to this 1974 review of the 'new' Dungeons and Dragons game. Some highlights: D&D was subtitled 'Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargams Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures.' The reviewer concludes, 'In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable.'"
I know Slashdot is renowned for posting news thats weeks or even months old, but *this* is just stupid!
Does it *get* more geeky than a story about D&D sent in by Wil Wheaton? I can't see how it possibly could.
If the review were more vehemently negative, the celibacy of thousands could have been averted.
And 19 years and dozens of rule books later, the quest continues..... :-)
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
The optimum solution seems to be play by phone, or when distances are too great, play by mail.
Oh I can see this working. "Hey, Fred, did you get my letter I mailed last week? You know, the one where I rolled a 20? I haven't heard from you yet. Did we kill the sucker or not?"
It was a cool book, a Dungeons and Dragons book. The adults told me that it was bad and made people act out elaborate fantasies and commit violent crimes. So I gave it up before ever actually playing it in the classic sense. But when this game for the Nintendo came out named "Dragon Warrior", I pounced on it. In a way, it a was a video game representation of what I loved about that book. I have since been a avid RPG video game player since.
A lot depends on the referee / game master.
sort of like how a joke can be messed up or great depending on who tells it.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
...the Acolyte Dorn from the village of Thane ventured into the ruins of Takator...</from the article>
Whoa! Michael Dorn played D&D?? Coincidence that Wil Wheaton posts this story...I think not.
I am a meat popsicle.
We recently got an email from a guy in Finland that he's going to duplicate a Unix box on commodity hardware! If you would like to give a hand, Send the person, Linus Torvalds an email or post on comp.os.minix ! He really needs your help.
I'm especially amused at the bit about $3.50 apiece (or $10 for the whole set) being expensive. And here I paid sixty bucks for the three core D&D3 books and felt like I was getting a deal. I won't even start on how much all the other accessory books I've bought have set me back.
That said, D&D has come a long way from its roots. I've never played 1st edition, but I played a lot of second, and it in comparison to 3rd, it feels at the same time far too limiting and overly complicated. I was surprised how much they managed to simultaneously simplify the game and allow for so many more options.
Out of curiosity, those of you who have played all three and a half revisions of D&D, which one did you like the most?
It's fascinating to read this. By the time I was a nerd, AD&D had taken over, and had certainly corrected enough of the deficiencies to make it playable.
But what makes this so interesting is that so many of todays PC RPGs have their basis in D&D rules. Sure, they've evolved significantly and taken different directions in different games, but the fact remains that most RPGs have their battle decisions based on complex mathematical rulesets, and D&D basically introduced these. (Orc attacks with 3d8, beating your 2d10 defence and inflicting d8 damage.)
Early computer 'RPG' were very simplistic in their battle rules, rarely better than 'attacker wins', but by the time that home computers advanced enough to support better rulesets, there was a very advanced 'template' for developers to start from.
The strange people who played this all night long in the lounge.. As far as I know they all are still virgins.
Get a free ipod.
How the hell is the DM supposed to physically abuse the players if we did that?!
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
Here's an interesting story....
My father's family ran a small printing business in Twin Lakes, WI (not too far from Lake Geneva). Back in the early 70's, these two guys from a small company came to my dad needing booklets to be printed for a new game. He and his brother decided against taking the risk of doing this large job and turned them down. It turns out that they were from TSR, trying to get D&D printed. Doh!
ÕÕ
"The scope is too grand, while the referee is expected to do too much in relation to the players ..."
The beauty of D&D can be boiled down to two propositions:
1. Anything can happen.
2. The Dungeon Master is God (and a capricious one at that).
This is why computer rpg's are, at best, pale imitations of a good pen and paper game.
It's all about the collaborative storytelling. Basically, you need imaginations, creativity, improvisational skills (especially for the gamemaster; players won't necessarily do what you anticipate...) and dedication (because creating a plausible, detailed setting and reasonable non-cookie-cutter missions takes a LOT of time and effort on the part of the GM).
With CRPGs, you normally drastically cut down on the personality and interaction aspect -- you're normally restricted to preplotted conversation trees or keyword systems, for instance -- that make pencil-and-paper RPGs shine.
It's not about the dice. It's not about the system, although choice of system will affect style -- e.g. players in the Middle Earth RPG system need to be extremely careful since healing's far harder to get than, say, AD&D-type systems.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
I have a friend that has been DMing and playing since D&D first came out, and he still uses the original booklets as his world basis. I've read them, they're awesome compared to the shallow crap that TSR releases now.
I disagree, I'm currently playing under the best DM I (or anyone else in the group) has ever seen, and he plays by the rules all of the time.
When you stick with the rules you end the session knowing deep down inside that it was some delicious mix of skill and luck that lead you to success, not some desire on behalf of the DM to make it all more dramatic.
A skilled DM works with the rules, not around them.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Well....
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You cannot use about 75% of the spells,
and god forbid the combinations
They are too abstract to emulate in a PC game
Best example is a "Wish" spell, mostly the
PC games are all heal, damage, or enhance
There were alot of creationist spells in the
pencil and paper game
Then there is all the subtlety of playing a
thief, or even subdual combat
The intrigue, and deception, and mystery, and
owning of property, building your castle,
town , fortress, etc etc
Building a fleet of ships on the grander scale,
or the low level beginenrs using small sacks
of flour to see the invisible monsters
So many subtle nuances not available in the
world of the PC . Some I have not even listed
out of the cob webs of my mind and they are
long forgotten
I have been with Ad&d since 1978, not much
of lately but I miss it dearly and have
seriously considered getting back with some
old school gamers and doing some good
old quality gaming on a epic scale similar
to Tolkien, Robert Jordan, or Stephen Donaldson.
The good ol' days, hehehe
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
I wasn't playing in 1974, but, in 1979 (I think) I won a gift certificate from my toy store down the street and spent about half of it on a box with a dragon on it. Everyone in the thread is talking about a white box, but I specifically remember it being blue, with a blue book (same dragon) maybe 60 pages long. I had no idea what an RPG or even miniatures were, and this book was still big on miniatures. At 11 years old, and never having played anything but cards and board games, I read it maybe seven times before something clicked and I got this rush of excitement as I realized that is was so much more of a game than I had ever dreamed of.
I made my mother sit down and play it with me (she hated it). I found some friends at school and convinced them to play, but no one could really get the hang of it. I wasn't any kind of DM, either.
It took about another two years of me trying to find people to play begore I hit the jackpot, and by the time I gave it up at 17 years old, I had amassed 30 different boxed set games, all of whigh I donated to the gaming club of my university when I went.
I recently found some interest in playing again, and happened across a Open Documentation license game, here
If anyone can tell me what kind of edition that blue box was (D&D, not AD&D), I would appreciate it.
Put identity in the browser.
Ahhh D&D - the lost hours of Jr High, High School and parts of College. The ONLY place you could get it in NYC was "The Complete Strategist" - Played EVERY Saturday for something like 7 years - 6 hours at a time. My best friend brought a childhood family friend along one day, and she joined the group. That must have been 1978. In March of 1980, she made it clear she wanted to be my girlfriend
We'll be married 15 years this summer. I still see the friend that introduced us all the time (we're God Parents to each others children)
D&D brings back memories
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
Jeez, I was the one who submitted this story to Boing Boing. I never thought Slashdot would go for it. I keep missing so many Karma opportunities....
What I said in the Boing Boing submission that Wil didn't repeat here is, the 1974 review is by a gamer named Arnold Hendrick. Hendrick went on to run Heritage Miniatures and to design some cool boardgames for Heritage's short-lived Dwarfstar game line. Later Hendrick went into computer games, working for Microprose and others; he helped design or develop many of Sid Meier's best-known titles. Hendrick's best-known work as sole designer is probably the 1992 Microprose fantasy game Darklands. Here's his MobyGames rap sheet and a Darklands FAQ.
What I learn from this: Be bold! Despite all qualms, submit to Slashdot!
In the review, it talks about "ChainMail" - which is a fairly meaningless comment for modern readers unfamilar with the context.
"ChainMail" was an earlier set of wargame rules for large scale battles between medieval armies. As I recall, it had a brief appendix covering some add-on rules to allow wizards, orcs, dragons and such like to be added into the battles as a bit of a laugh.
Using the ChainMail rules for purely fantasy warfare became very popular - probably more so than the non-fantasy aspect of the rules. That (I suspect) is the reason that D&D came into being.
The reason the original D&D rules seem confusing is that they assume full knowledge and applicability of the ChainMail rules.
Steve - Chaos/Cleric/Hobbit 19th level - circa 1982.
OK - I'm about geeked out now.
www.sjbaker.org
So you are totally socially inept, spend much of your time doing things that most would condider nerdy and haven't gotten laid in a very long time or probably never.
There are actually a lot of girls JUST LIKE THAT. Right now! On your campus! Attractive ones! In fact, even basic statistics and probability (and I know you're down with statistics and probability) tells us that some of them would willing, hell, even _excited_ to FUCK YOU!
Think you're insecure? Guess what? Girls are actually worse. WAY worse. Even the pretty ones- hell ESPECIALLY the pretty ones. Watch TV some time and look at the way women are still portayed, even in this day and age. Many, if not most, girls feel uncool, unsexy, and out of place a MILLION times a day and they actually prize above all else in a relationship is to feel like they are actually worthwhile _people_ and not maids, bitches or fuck toys.
YOU, a geek, nerd or dork can actually give them this feeling by doing nothing more than BEING YOURSELF. Feel unattractive? You can do a surprising amount to fix this. Loose weight! spend an extra 10 bucks on a haircut! Get a decent wardrobe that can STILL INCLUDE ANIME T-SHIRTS! Moisturize! Most girls are good at improving a persons looks. Ask one. She will probably love to help you.
Why are they so hung up on it? because our society tells them that they HAVE to be attractive while NEVER allowing them to live up to its standard of perfection. But you know what? Maybe they've learned something but you don't even need to be a chiseled slab of beef. Shocked?? Read on!
What you learned in high school is now WRONG! YOU CAN get a wonderful, even SEXY girl simply by NOT treating her like a SEX OBJECT and choosing NOT to be a FAKE ASS PLAYER! Believe it or not people just as nerdy as you have gotten HOT, smart, wonderful girlfriends by simply being loving, _attentive_, down to earth (like the way you are with your friends) people and also NOT DATE RAPING THEM!
No, you won't hit it off with every girl, but you are picky too remember? Find one that is like you. You have a star wars figure collection? Well your girl might have a collection of plastic horses from when she was twelve that she was TERRIFIED of anyone finding out about in high school. You will be able to relate a hell of a lot more than you expect. She might even love computers! She might even love linux! There's more and more every day! No, she's not Natalie Portman, but you know what? You won't care!!
You are, smart, well-educated, compassionate and a nice guy (or girl)-- in addition to being sexy (you are sexy right? If not, see above.) You are willing to be a good boyfriend instead of just a dick delievery service. YOU ARE A DAMN GOOD GUY (or girl). So stop whinning and get to work!!!.
GEEKS OF THE WORLD- YOU WILL GET LAID!!!!!
/robbins>
Note: Does not apply to those currently in or about to enter high school. You are all still shit out luck for a few years. Don't cry, we all had to be patient too.
(And I am absolutely serious, guys I kid because I love, and I been there, I am not trying to troll.)
Also: Go to a doctor and get treated for your depression/anxiety/bi-polar/ADD etc if you think you have it. Don't be ashamed, just fucking do it. Some (not all or even a whole lot- don't flame me) of you out there have some of these and they will fuck with your life until it gets fixed. Be brave. They are wonderful people and they can work miracles now days. They really can. Dealing with women is, as you know, very hard psycholoically at times. Especially meeting them.
Ahh yes the good old days. I started with the silver chain mail rules oh so many years ago. Back then you could pick up the phone, call up and talk to Gary Gygax in person. I had a 30 min. long distance conversation with him over some rules. Hell, dad busted my ass for that one.
Anyway, computer games have a long way to go before they can catch up with pen and paper. Neverwinter Nights seems to be the cloest they have came. But still have a long way to go.
TSR did do one thing I liked, they released just about everything 2nd edition to pdf format. I don't play 3rd editon and have 6 gigabytes of 2nd editon in soft format. When I do have a game I just toss everything on to my laptop and off I go.
Every thing is cross referenced and indexed in acrobat. That to me is the best use for computers in AD&D. I also have the Core Rules software and that can be useful.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification