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Retro-Computing with FPGAs
zoid.com writes "I ran across a couple of really interesting projects using Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA) processors. First is the C-ONE project that is a reconfigurable computer. The default mode is a C64 compatible one, but the machine just boots the FPGA from an IDE device at
power on, so it could theoretically be pretty much anything. The second one is the FPGA Arcade. This site is about recreating gaming hardware from the past in modern programmable devices. They currently have Pacman, Space Invaders and Galaxian implemented in FPGAs."
another technology that will likely evolve into robot super monsters that will kill us all.
-You're wasting your time. Alfador only likes me.
All I can say is: this is the best use of FPGA technology ever.
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I'm sure they could make a really good version of Pong...
Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions
Quick quiz: What is MAME? Software, right. Second question: What's an FPGA? Field Programmable Gate Array - a chunk of reconfigurable silicon. Now you tell me :--)
Gordon
MAME uses software to simulate arcade hardware using general purpose computing hardware.
FPGA's are a different beast altogether. An FPGA is similar to a ROM in that patterns can be burned into it but they are far more versatile. FPGA's can have logic burned into them which makes them malleble hardware. An FPGA with a 6502 processor and supporting logic burned into it is NOT emulating say Pac-Man. It is a re-implementation of Pac-Man.
This guy is implementing an Atari 2600 on an FPGA:
http://www.mindspring.com/~2600onachip/
If he pulls it off, one could do neat things like make a super battery efficient handheld. The FPGA is for all intents and purposes a 2600 so there isn't the overhead a StrongARM chip running at 200Mhz would have.
So far, gaming companies have been pretty generous about letting people copy very obsolete games from the C64 era. I hope that by creating hardware platforms for these obsolete games becomes more widespread, the gaming companies don't start changing their minds. I guess as long as people don't start making a lot of money at it?
Do they make 6502s that can also be 8080s, 6800s, RCA 1802s... just by rebooting? No? Then you're completely missing the point.
Not that that's anything new for Slashdot.
One really cool application is the implementation of various crypto algorithms for realtime simple uses, like this.
There is also something called the FPGA Design Contest - amazing stuff!
Games are entertaining I guess, but if we could implement crypto algos and cool AI stuff at home using FPGAs, nothing quite beats that
An FPGA is similar to a ROM in that patterns can be burned into it but they are far more versatile. FPGA's can have logic burned into them which makes them malleble hardware
Close. You're actually describing a PAL. An FPGA is more similar to RAM. Think of it as the high speed memory of programmable logic devices. When it loses power, it loses it's programming. An FPGA usually reads it's configuration on power-up from ROM or a PC's parallel port if you're prototyping. There's really no "burning" involved.
That's nice...but, this will not be very useful compared to todays apps and emulators...now if they could get the hardware down to size, this would be a great PDA...
You've entirely missed the point... this is not meant to be a "useful" machine, but rather a hobbyist machine. Something for people who want to be able to tinker and play with a computer with a relatively simple design that allows a programmer to have more or less complete control of the machine. Modern PCs are much too complex to fit this niche.
Think of it as something like a more advanced version of the C64 (or other 8-bits). Not something for people trying to do serious work -- that's what your desktop computer is for -- but something for people that like really get into the guts of the system.
Who are YOU to assume we don't know what FPGA is?
How fair do you think the great game of Golf would be if they didn't let females play? Hmm?
The site is currently slashdoted, but as far as I remember, it uses a WDC 65C816 instead of the C64's 6510 CPU. The FPGA is used only for emulating the peripherals such as the IDE interface, 6581 SID sound chip, 2x6526 CIA chips, VIC chip emulation, etc.
Why not get one of these and run this? You can get a complete system with power supply and nice case for less than just the C-ONE board alone costs.
Yep, if SETI@Home cared to release such code.
Open Core's project list gives a list of cores you can download *right now* under the *GPL* and do stuff with. Shows you the kind of things you can do. (I believe you can combine multiple cores onto one FPGA as well, if they'll fit, and they can intercommunicate.)
I have heard of people talking about a PCI card with a few FPGA's on it; so dedicated programs could download their own accellerator programs to them. It's just an idea at the moment, AFAIK, but hey.
Hallo, the C-One can be many things. Lets not think so outright that the C-One is strictly about "Retro-Computing". It is in ways as ultra-modern by concept that hardware can be reconfigurable. One chip that can be turned into different kinds of hardware. That is a feat that will take incredible CPU power to make as virtual machines. With FPGAs its not virtual and its not emulated. Think of an array of silicon gates that can be rewired on the fly without use of soldering gun or expensive fabrication labs. The C-One's C-64 mode and compatibility is a feat about retro but think of tha past and the future being put into one point. Futuristic hardware concepts can literally be "proven". Now we can make hardware alot like we can make software. We can make efficient hardware with the same efficient principles of efficient software programming with understanding of hardware. What about real-world prototyping. Developers will love this. In all reality, we can even be a DVD Player as well. The future of the C-One would be the use of FPGA technology and a new revolution of software that incorporates hardware add-ons on CD-ROM. Now imagine this, I have this super fancy SuperNintendo cartridge, I can now incorporate a SuperFX chip all on CD-ROM. How, it is called VHDL the revolutionary bridge between software and hardware. Our ability to reprogram the hardware via software. The ability to incorporate our very own hardware in every CD-ROM we sell. Now, we can distribute hardware in 10-15 cent CD-R disc (CD-ROM). This is some of many possibilities we can see. This is only the beginning. Reconfigurable hardware is used in even modern DVD Players and digital setop boxes and other luxeries and state of the art products.
65c02 not 6502. There are some differences. 6502 which is the NMOS fabricated model made by MOS Technology aka Commodore Semicondictors (CSG later used). C64 used 6510. The C-1 uses a 65c816 and the 6510 special features are cored into the FPGA (I think) Yet, the two FPGAs have to "emulate" (if you want to call it that) are the VIC-II and SID chip which are *NOT* made anymore. Jeri Ellsworth made special features known as the Super VIC and Monster SID mode on top of the classic features. These include the full enhanced sound and enhanced video modes like 1280 x 1024 resolution and 65536 colors. (More then your eyes can distinctively tell in an animated motion) Dithered imaging - hehehe lets look at 4 Billion RGB Chroma values. Hope you can tell.
No -the opposite - code morphing dynamically adapts the software to fit the hardware- an FPGA dynamically adapts the hardware to fit the software.
If you want to play with FPGA stuff, then one of the best is the Quickstart Technology board - this includes the download/programming interface and power supply on board - you just plug the board into your parallel port, and you have hardware that can be anything. Powerful enough to do a VAX. (You also have to download the software to do your design, but that's free as in beer!
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
I thought about doing this for my own radio telescope. One day I might just get around to it :-)
:-)
:-)
The interesting thing about using an FPGA would be the speed of the FFT. With FFTW (the Fastest Fourier Transform in the West), I get approx 230 us (microseconds) per fft. Using an el-cheapo FFT, best efforts would be on the order of 15us, or approximately 15x faster... Bung several on a few PCBs, and you're talking super-computer speeds
Say you use 16 FPGA implementations, that'd be the equivalent of 240 Athlon 1800XP's... With those sorts of speeds, you could do realtime chirp analysis for doppler effects on an incoming signal. That *would be cool*
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!