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PCGen to Charge for Data Files
ChrisDolan writes "The folks who benevolently dictate the creation of PCGen, a D20 character generator tool (e.g. for D&D), are going to start charging for downloads of data files. This comes after a long series of talks with Wizards of the Coast. The PCGen code will continue to be LGPL, but some of the data files (a separate download) will be more encumbered than just OGL (Open Gaming License). The specific data files that will cost are ones that were never released under OGL and have WotC IP in them. Details on the Code Monkeys site." PCGen is a nifty app, but all this stuff annoys me. I bought all the 3rd ed books already after all... it seems stingy to charge users twice.
1) Charging for content that contains corporate IP, and
2) A company finding another way to try and squeeze a few dollars of revenue during tough times.
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we didn't need any fancy computer to whip up characters. Just 3d6, a pencil and paper. Most of the iterations since have just been sales-driven product releases.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Really now -- how much do RPG gamers typically spend on thier book collections (generally measured in bookshelf-yards -- I'm only up to about 4 feet or so, but I've been slacking off lately)? I don't even want to START adding up the cover prices of those books. Is a little extra cash to get the convinience of some of that data on a computer really going to hurt the pocket book?
Anyway, I don't see anyone complaining about the fact that you have to pay for all of the GURPS character creators, as SJ Games certainly won't let you give thier data away for free. But it happens to a d20 chargen, and people start whining? Whatever.
Giving away code is one thing but giving away someone else copyright is another. I imagine if they are going to be distributing stuff that is in the 3rd edition rules they had to make some sort of deal with WotC to do so. WotC is going to want some cash out of the deal so naturally Codemonkey is going to have to charge for this.
Before people light the tourches and storm the castle lets remember WotC past. They have been a lot better company than TSR ever was with IP stuff. The cost of the downloads might be reasonable. Its no differet than when they released the code to the Quake engine but still required you to buy the data paks to run it on Linux.
With WotC past efforts I'm willing to give them more than the doubt before I tar and feather anyone.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
I played AD&D before the software. Does the software do anything that you can't do on paper with your imagination and the books?
This isn't bait a bait and switch. hell, slashdot does this too. First, all of the articles were user generated, now some of them are ads.
Nothing has been taken away that you can't have already. It's not like, someone wrote something, got everyone completely dependent on it without viable alternatives, and then said, "Give me more money, or you are screwed." BSA and operating systems for instance.
Or the RIAA,we own the product, we can do whatever we wish within our own personal confines. Turning my cd into mp3, ogg, making 30,000 copies, cracking any code and decorating my walls with them isn't illegal. It's the redistribution for no cost that is illegal.
Damned whiners.
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
What do you mean "have to"? Just continue to play with the version 3 ruleset; the books won't suddenly turn into dust just because there's a new version out.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Did you know that you can buy a computer today, and in 6 months, you are already obsoleted? No buybacks, not refunds.. nothing. In fact, you'd have to sell it used.
I think people should be used to this by now. It's called, economics. No one wants to buy back tangibles that they sold you. It's your fault you bought them.. and it's your fault if you buy the newest ones.
Besides, is the game THAT much more fun between 3.0 and 3.5? Isn't your GM supposed to make adjustments to the games when he see's fit? Hell, i've seen really random spells given out when there's a plot difficulty. I.e. "Damn, no one knows how to talk to this creature, and our guy who is multilingual is in jail." "Ok, I'm giving you a spell just so that you can understand any one language you choose, but you can only do that language. No dual tounges while you use it. But when you go back to your old language, you retain the knowledge of what you talked about. Level 5, costs xxx mp."
And also, if you really need those books, get everyone in your group to pitch in and buy the latest ones.
Cripes..
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
I understand why they'd do that, it makes great economic sense.
However: The 3ed rules seem like they "just" came out, and there's lots of applications that will still use them. Neverwinter Nights, for example, prided it's self on using 3ed. Will we now also have to download or buy the next pack for NWN so that we feel up to snuff?
But, whatever, people that deal with WOTC are used to it. Think Magic Cards - every 4 months, release a whole new set, and then after two new set releases, you can't use any older cards in Type II tournaments.
Same Deal... you can still use the older stuff, just not in the "cool, new" tournament situations.
sig?
Aside from the high probability of downloading the files from elsewhere, what about giving the users the instructions on how to generate the datafiles given that they own the books? That way they would have paid for the IP already (by buying the books).
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Good thing I never overwrote rev 2.73 with anything more current. I've noticed that Rev 4.x f*&^s up all of the monsters that older Revs work with quite nicely. Actually, no matter *what* version you are using, there is still always something totally screwed up enough to warrant me sitting down and doing the characters by hand. Really the only two reasons for having PCGEN is that all of the information for Forgotten Realms and the Splat Books is *right there* and it is extremely quick and easy to spit out a bunch of monster and NPC stats for a game. Since Rev 4 eliminated all of the content *and* messed up the monster stats, it is worthless. I looked at later revisions, but stick with 2.73. Without that content, I consider all of the current versions to be a step backward. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the change in tag formatting for the data files was directly related to them making the older data files non-compatible solely to make money. Oh well - there are solutions - stick with older revision (like me), continue to do everything by hand, or make your own data files and tell the folks at PCGEN to go pound sand.
Actually, while I'm on a rant - doesn't it piss anyone else off that WOTC has done some underhanded things - the Monster Manual for example. They bragged about how many monsters there are in there. Yeah - if you subtract all of the variations (Large, Huge, Small, Tiny, Medium) of the same monster and subtract all of the templates, you've probably got maybe 50 monsters in the book. MM2 is no better. How about their "generosity" of giving away converted spells, monsters, etc. from 1st/2nd edition only if you also buy Dragon or Dungeon Magazine or an RPGA Polyhedron and Living Greyhawk Subcription. Their "new" Fiend Folio looks like another stinker.
I recently bought Tome of Horrors (by Sean? Green) and have been extremely happy with it - it is well worth the $30 for a book containing over 400 monsters (292 of them being conversions from 1st edition MM1, MM2, and FF). Sure it has templates - *AS AN APPENDIX* - not as a part of the main 400+ monsters.
I would recommend that everyone who plays 3rd edition try out some of the 3rd party d20 products as they are as good as, if not better than, the WOTC content. With the current trend WOTC is taking, it makes me want to grab my copy of "D&D Cyclopedia" (a compilation of all the boxed sets for Original D&D) off of my bookshelf and start playing that again - but my players are firmly entrenched in 3rd edition - heck - one of my players *only* wants to play 3rd edition D&D, and only with the "typical pseudo-Western European fantasy" type of scenarios (i.e. keep the campaign in Waterdeep and surroundings.) God forbid that I have them playing in Moonshae Isles (Celtic with Nordic influences) and plan on throwing them in Kara-Tur or Maztica...
*ahem*
/. should understand my reasoning.
If you buy "the data" (which you didn't--you bought a copy of the data which includes the right to make reasonable and necessary copies for personal use), you can go ahead and put it in yourself, or pay someone else to do it for you--or pay the original company for a second copy of the data.
Or you can do what I do, and not use Wizards of the Coast material that's not OGL'd or in the SRD. Any gamer on
As things stand, for the price of a couple of pints, I'm going to be able to download datafiles for PCGen (which is a bloody fine piece of work in itself) that will allow me to bash out characters and monsters that
a) Can use all of the published features from the rules and addons
b) Stand a hope in hell of actually being numerically correct
Think people - when have we ever been able to do this before for the DnD world? Never.
For the people who are whinging about WotC releasing new editions to keep money coming in - if you don't want them, don't buy them. If you do, get 'yer hand in 'yer pocket and pay for them. And if I come across anyone ripping off the datafiles once they go on sale, they'll get a vorpal enema from me!
One happy DM!
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we didn't need any fancy computer to whip up characters. Just 3d6, a pencil and paper. Most of the iterations since have just been sales-driven product releases.
With all due respect to the PcGen people, I could never understand the point of a "character generator". You download and install an app so that you can shave a couple of seconds off of character generation? What's the *point*? If anything, you lose part of the gaming experience.
I mean, how often do you need to generate a freaking character?
May we never see th