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Linux in High School Labs
lexbaby writes "The Salt Lake Tribune has a story about how Logan High School (Logan, Utah) is using Linux in their student programming lab. The main use is for robotics. There is the old discussion about if Linux is truly cheaper to operate in the long run. Is Linux a legitimate solution to school districts facing a financial crunch?" I hope some of the students involved post pictures of the robots they're building in class.
We setup linux in one of our labs using old computers that otherwise were useless. Using ltsp [ltsp.org], we managed to make usable workstations for word processing and internet access. Based on our experience, linux definitely was cheaper than the expensive windows terminals and citrix licenses.
My school uses nothing but Win2K. It takes 5 minutes to log in, and all is disjointed. The sad thing is that they have just lost their last Linux server, which says a lot.
If you're happy and you know it read my blog
Also check out The Linux Terminal Server Project K-12, a cool project devoted to this sort of thing.
You are not the customer.
We use Linux in the robots labs at my University's CS department. Because it's robotics we're talking about here, the cost savings aren't significant as the hardware is much more expensive than the software, ratio-wise. The benefit of using Linux is its 'hackability'.
E000-VB14-G8RY
Contrary to what you might think, It'd be easier to admin such a situation. If you allow for centralized file storage on a large file server, and then remotely boot images of Linux in a terminal server type situation, bugfixes would be cake. Simply update the bootp image and force a reboot of all machines, fixed. This of course assumes consistent hardware, but this type of situation calls for little to no client end hardware so the boxes can be cheap.
Linux Could Become Inexpensive Alternative to Proprietary Systems
BY MARSHALL THOMPSON
SPECIAL TO THE TRIBUNE
LOGAN -- A northern Utah computer science teacher is setting up a programming lab that lets his students learn more for less money.
Russell Weeks, a member of the math department at Logan High School, has removed the traditional operating system from his computer programming lab and replaced it with a free Linux-based program.
"We had some concerns about the cost of Microsoft and having the flexibility of changing what kind of software you want to run," Weeks says. "We've been talking about doing this for some time, so we just decided to drive off the cliff."
That cliff is the line between what computer types call proprietary software and open-source software. Proprietary software must be bought, licensed and upgraded regularly. Windows XP and Mac OS X are both proprietary. Linux, and versions of Linux like Red Hat and SuSE, are free, flexible and often more powerful.
Logan High students have adjusted well to Linux.
"I have to turn off the light to let them know it's time to go home," says Weeks, who runs the computer lab after school. "Sometimes their parents come in to get them."
Students have been working on programming autonomous robots since last spring. Some students take their robots to competitions. One robot, outfitted with a small camera, will monitor an aquarium and be controlled over the Internet.
Weeks obtained grants for the robots, but didn't have a large budget for software.
Many students have asked to put a Linux-based operating system on their home computer. In such a case, Weeks could simply give them a copy of any software they want -- it's free.
"[Linux] is the wave of the future," said Mark Rugg, a computer technician for Logan City School District. "Due to budgeting constraints and licensing issues, Linux seems to be the only viable system."
However, there is more to consider.
"There are some hidden costs," Weeks said. "It requires some more expertise to get it up and running. I think my wife would say it's more expensive because I spend a lot of time here trying to get things done."
Rik Stallings, Logan School District computer technician, said the district pays about $45 for Microsoft software for each of the more than 500 computers at Logan High, for a yearly average of $22,500.
But experts disagree about which system is cheaper in the long run. Linux software is free, but technical support is expensive. According to Linuxworld.com, a Linux operator would earn an annual salary of about $65,000, while a Windows operator might make $45,000 -- costs a school district would bear.
Roberto Mello, a founding member of the Free Software and Linux Club at Utah State University, said Linux is still cheaper.
"One Linux operator can manage 45 computers while a Windows operator can manage only 10 because it's harder," Mello said.
Linux-philes also say that it maximizes the efficiency of slower computers, which could be helpful to a school that receives used computers. Proponents also say that Linux crashes less than other formats so it is cheaper to maintain.
Still, Mello says cost and efficiency are not the real issues. "The freedom to study and modify is the most important part of open-source software."
Computer technicians also enjoy being free of licensing agreements and random audits. School districts using proprietary software may be asked at any time to conduct an audit. The technicians have to match up all the computers with a license number for each piece of software that is installed. This becomes even more difficult when computers are donated with unregistered software already installed.
"Microsoft had us do an audit last year that took two weeks out of my schedule," Rugg said. "That's two week's work of taxpayers' money to satisfy Microsoft."
More and more school districts are looking to Linux in the future. A few schools in Washington and California have made the switch and reported large savings. The French Ministry of Education announced in October that it will be installing Linux and free software in public schools.
Weeks said more experiments will have to be done before Linux could be considered for schoolwide use. Still, he and his students are enjoying themselves: "The students are just so tickled about it."
I think this is a great step towards educating technology students about platforms other than Windows. I think its even more interesting that they are doing robotics in high school. We had a similar program at the high school I went to where we did all sorts of stuff with electronics from robots to electronic repair. The courses counted towards credit with the local university. The program eventually grew to groom students into network engineers working on getting them prepped and ready for their Cisco certifications (maybe a few others at this point). Its good to see that with all the criticism of public schools, that some are still scrapping together enough money to do some interesting projects.
When I was in high school the programming that we did was all done by telnetting into a Linux box and using GCC. This proved to be cheaper for the school district in terms of licenses for compilers (zero cost). This way we were able to keep the costs for computer science courses separate from the costs for maintaining a computer lab. Also, using Linux (and before that some form of UNIX) for computer science put me lightyears ahead of those who had never touched the command line in introductory college CS courses.
The TCO in this environment should be far lower then a Microsoft equivalent. The operating system is free, there are no licenses, and no fees for the purchase of the renewal of licenses for Windows based development software. The support overhead should be non-existant, as the school district IT staff should just set them all up as terminals, or can have images handy for quick ghosting (if needs be).
Linux Could Become Inexpensive Alternative to Proprietary Systems
BY MARSHALL THOMPSON
LOGAN -- A northern Utah computer science teacher is setting up a programming lab that lets his students learn more for less money.
Russell Weeks, a member of the math department at Logan High School, has removed the traditional operating system from his computer programming lab and replaced it with a free Linux-based program.
"We had some concerns about the cost of Microsoft and having the flexibility of changing what kind of software you want to run," Weeks says. "We've been talking about doing this for some time, so we just decided to drive off the cliff."
That cliff is the line between what computer types call proprietary software and open-source software. Proprietary software must be bought, licensed and upgraded regularly. Windows XP and Mac OS X are both proprietary. Linux, and versions of Linux like Red Hat and SuSE, are free, flexible and often more powerful.
Logan High students have adjusted well to Linux.
"I have to turn off the light to let them know it's time to go home," says Weeks, who runs the computer lab after school. "Sometimes their parents come in to get them."
Students have been working on programming autonomous robots since last spring. Some students take their robots to competitions. One robot, outfitted with a small camera, will monitor an aquarium and be controlled over the Internet.
Weeks obtained grants for the robots, but didn't have a large budget for software.
Many students have asked to put a Linux-based operating system on their home computer. In such a case, Weeks could simply give them a copy of any software they want -- it's free.
"[Linux] is the wave of the future," said Mark Rugg, a computer technician for Logan City School District. "Due to budgeting constraints and licensing issues, Linux seems to be the only viable system."
However, there is more to consider.
"There are some hidden costs," Weeks said. "It requires some more expertise to get it up and running. I think my wife would say it's more expensive because I spend a lot of time here trying to get things done."
Rik Stallings, Logan School District computer technician, said the district pays about $45 for Microsoft software for each of the more than 500 computers at Logan High, for a yearly average of $22,500.
But experts disagree about which system is cheaper in the long run. Linux software is free, but technical support is expensive. According to Linuxworld.com, a Linux operator would earn an annual salary of about $65,000, while a Windows operator might make $45,000 -- costs a school district would bear.
Roberto Mello, a founding member of the Free Software and Linux Club at Utah State University, said Linux is still cheaper.
"One Linux operator can manage 45 computers while a Windows operator can manage only 10 because it's harder," Mello said.
Linux-philes also say that it maximizes the efficiency of slower computers, which could be helpful to a school that receives used computers. Proponents also say that Linux crashes less than other formats so it is cheaper to maintain.
Still, Mello says cost and efficiency are not the real issues. "The freedom to study and modify is the most important part of open-source software."
Computer technicians also enjoy being free of licensing agreements and random audits. School districts using proprietary software may be asked at any time to conduct an audit. The technicians have to match up all the computers with a license number for each piece of software that is installed. This becomes even more difficult when computers are donated with unregistered software already installed.
"Microsoft had us do an audit last year that took two weeks out of my schedule," Rugg said. "That's two week's work of taxpayers' money to satisfy Microsoft."
More and more school districts are looking to Linux in the future. A few schools in Washington and California have made the switch and reported large savings. The French Ministry of Education announced in October that it will be installing Linux and free software in public schools.
Weeks said more experiments will have to be done before Linux could be considered for schoolwide use. Still, he and his students are enjoying themselves: "The students are just so tickled about it."
The GHCA (Greater Houlton Christian Academy) has a nice Linux based lab too. They say they saved a lot of money doing it this way, which seems pretty obvious... Their webpage is here
Apple made a big footprint in schools, why not Linux?
if i recall correctly, apple made massive donations to educational institutions in the mid-late 80's as a buisness strategy. the idea was to get the elementary school kids used to the apple machines so they would buy them when they were older.
since linux is an os and not an architecture, 'linux' can not be given to schools in the same way. linux is a free os (assuming no professional support), but the machines to run it on are not free. and even if an oem donated machines to a school, chances are they would be shipped with windows.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
my highschool uses windows everywhere and does a horrible job with the network (netware without using zen, which they have licenses for). Ive been in computer science for 3 years and instead of dealing with turbo c++ 4.5 and codewarrior I brought in cygwin and started using g++ for the projects and such. People started seeing the benefits of crazy stuff like 32bit integers and the STL so now we at least use Visual. My teaher was suprisingly receptive to linux though, he is letting me do linux from scratch for a project now (so I can know more about it, not that I need a specialized distro or anything)
I live and work in Logan as a UNIX engineer/CTO of a technology company -- this is great news. If you guys at Logan high school need some UNIX/Linux expertise, let me know. I'd be happy to donate my time/services. :) (brian@zyx.net)
-- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
The University of Twente (the Netherlands) has had a dualboot system between Linux and Win NT (now Win 2000) for years, even before I was a student there (we are talking 1996-1997 here).
And we're not talking 'a few' computers, all computers in the CS department (at least all the systems that students can use) have both Linux and Windows. Has been like this for over 6 years, maybe even longer.
I would have assumed that a lot of uni's in the States would have the same thing? Am I wrong in assuming this? You're kidding me....
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Your point's not lost, but your Latin needs help. Latin for book is "Liber, Libris" hence "Library." The list you came up with derives from the Greek word, "Biblion, Biblia" (hence "Bible," or "the books").
The Romans had a profound fondness/respect for Greek. To learn Greek was to master Latin. They understood the principle (the point of this thread) 2000 years ago, and it remains valid IMO.
This is another thing that bugs me about supposed pro Linux media. Just about every review of a linux dist focuses entirely on ease of installation. I consider this just as detremental to the legitemacy of linux as calling it cheap. You never read anyone touting the quick and easy installation of Solaris, and it is very well respected amoung the money people. Conceivably you only install once. The rest of your time is spent actually using a system. Shouldnt this be the focus of advocacy?
My high school already uses linux. The entire computer systems lab runs on debian, and the network includes a Cray. It's definitely better than windows - using linux gives students an easy opportunity to work with a supercomputer, and the fact that the system is a linux-based network makes everything easier and faster (as proven by the network covering the rest of the school - all the machines run on windows 98, and the network runs extremely slowly and is very unstable). Although I'm sure that I'm not introducting anything new here, I just wanted to say that linux does seem to be getting a foothold in high schools. Free, easy, fast...it's definitely here to stay, at least at my school.
http://www.knoppix.net/o cs/index.php/KnoppixKDE
:)
http://www.knoppix.net/d
Cheers
Sometimes Linux is "proven" to have higher TCO, sometimes Windows.
It mostly comes down to who ordered the research. =)
But one of the reasons for Linux to have a high TCO even though it is free is that the avarage person knows *a lot* less about Linux/Unix than Windows.
If you start using Linux at schools, you'll have a whole generation of people who suddenly have a lot of experiance in Linux.
That's why most smart corporations give free or dirt cheap licences to universities and colleges.
If all new engineers are already trained at a certain developing tool, it makes sense to buy a licence of that when hireing new engineers.
Same thing will apply here. If lots of people are used to using Linux as a platform, they will probably *use* Linux as a platform when starting a new project.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)