Skepticism, Censorship And The Polygraph

George W. Maschke writes "Paul M. Menges, the federal polygraph examiner who teaches the countermeasure course at the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute, has written an article in the American Polygraph Association's quarterly journal, Polygraph, in which he calls for the criminalization of public speech about polygraph countermeasures (methods for passing or beating a polygraph examination). His proposal would ban books like AntiPolygraph.org's popular free e-book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. I have written a formal response to Mr. Menges' commentary."

Comments

Available countermeasures = polygraphs don't work

[hab136]

If there are ways to defeat polygraphs, then what makes this DoD guy think that polygraphs are in any way valid?

The bad guys will just use those countermeasures. The good guys might 'fail' when they should have passed.

In other words, by attacking countermeasures, this guy is actually attacking the so-called "science" of polygraphs.

oops

[PD]

Too bad they can't ban my built-in fascism detector. It's going off right now.

What's next?

[ClosedSource]

Criminalization of speech debunking tarot cards, psychic phenomenon, tea reading and other practices in the same category as the polygraph?

The Alan Ralsky solution...

[sleepingsquirrel]

I'm not really up on the *science* of polygraph, but I've read the The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and it seems pretty damning. The basic premise of the book is that a polygraph interview is really just an interrorgation; all of the equipment is mostly just a ruse to intimidate the subject into telling the truth. Lately I've been wondering what could be done to educate the poor low-level schmucks at the FBI/CIA on this issue (i.e. those employees required to submit to polygraphs on a regular basis). The best I could come up with is engaging the Slashdot-Ralsky protocol. Everyone heads down to the local Kinko's and makes a copy (or three) of the book, and then sends it off to a likely FBI/CIA employee. The copyright notice on the book states that it is free for noncomericial purposes, which I think would cover this situation. The only problem of course is to identify likely CIA/FBI employees. The easist thing would be to start picking random addresses in the suburbs of D.C. (say within a 30-40 minute commute to known FBI office buildings) in the hopes of reaching the FBI employees or their friends and families (and this is assuming that FBI employment data isn't public domain). Of course, random addresses might not be the most efficient, I'm sure someone out there might have a better idea. Maybe we could pick random address, but exclude those we know are employed elswhere (hey, this is kinda like Total Information Awareness in reverse).

It seems like the powers-that-be might not be happy if they knew that a not insignificant portion of their workfore was _aware_ of polygraph countermeasures and "the lie behind the lie detector". Then they might have to admit that polygraph testing is a fraud (or maybe they'd just dismiss us as those "nutty internet kooks").

Anyway, I'd like to see your comments/suggestions on this.

Re:Available countermeasures = polygraphs don't wo

[Col. Klink (retired)]

I remember seeing (in News of the Weird, I think) about some local cop that was taking criminals and putting their hands on a copy machine and claiming that it was a polygraph. He loaded the paper try with pages with "He's Lying" pre-printed on them. He'd ask you a question, hit the copy button, and there would be a page with an image of your hand and "He's Lying" written on it.

He apparently got a few confessions this way, but I believe they were overturned.

Anyways, let's not pretend that there's anything beyond Gilligan's Island science by calling them "polygraphs". They're lie detectors.

Lie detectors lie

[etymxris]

If you ever watch "Forensic Files", you'll see that whether someone passes or fails a polygraph examination has little to do with their guilt.

The people that are most likely to pass a poly are the total psychopaths who just don't care or have convinced themselves of their innocence. The father whose daughter has just disappeared will be so grief stricken that he'll fail a poly no matter what actually happened.

Re:Available countermeasures = polygraphs don't wo

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you fucking tell me. I just got out after serving 2 of a 3 year sentence. All this "beat the polygraph HOWTO" stuff is great, but I could have used a simple PICTURE of one. I thought it looked like a copy machine, but I wasn't sure.

Useful Polygraph Info

[Incongruity]

There's a lot of pseudo-science out there, especially with regards to the polygraph and other lie-detection methods, so becareful about what you trust.

One excellent and scientifically trustworthy source for polygraph information is from a committee put together by the National Academy of Sciences to study the scientific validity of the polygraph and related lie-detection methodologies, both in the lab and out in the real world. If you want to read the report, you can find it online through the NAS's publishing website.

Another excellent work on the uses and abuses of the polygraph is a book by David Lykken called "A Tremor in the Blood". Lykken is a well respected researcher in the field of physiological detection of deception, and has spent a lot of time trying to bring to light the troubling science behind the polygraph.

Too hard...

[sleepingsquirrel]

Print up copies of the book -- or summarize the basic points on a smaller handout -- and hand them out at FBI, at DoJ, and make them available in the usual places like lefty bookstores and so forth.

That solution requires a lot of work. You need round up highly motivated individuals to take time off of work, spend money flying into D.C. and stand around hasseling honest people, trying to convince them you're not a nut. My solution requires almost no work (File->Print on your browser, or a trip to the local print shop) and minimal expense ($10 worth of paper per copy?) Because of its distributed nature (thousands of people spread throughout the country) it would be hard to quell, and provide little backlash risk for any single participant.

If they've got a curriculum in polygraph countermeasures, you can be pretty certain they know they exist, don't you think?

The point is not that *some* of the higher up people know, but if *everyone* in the FBI was aware of how to defeat a polygraph, then there would be little point in administering them, right?

Polygraph == Non-science

[edward.virtually@pob]

As informed people are aware, the polygraph is another example of officially endorsed psuedo-science. What ought to be outlawed is its use, not documentation that it is a fraud. For anyone who needs to know: to defeat a polygraph test, put a tack in your shoe and jab your toe with it for every other question or so. Anyone who tells you the polygraph is a useful device is either ignorant or part of the scam -- polygraph operators make a lot of money compared to most crackpots. Rather pathetic that the DoD is depending on it for our security, though not surprising.

Are polygraphs used anywhere else in the world?

[nemiak]

Are polygraphs used anywhere besides the united states?
Here in Australia, to my knowledge, the courts don't consider polygraphs to have any credibility and the general attitude is that their use by american authorities is a little bizarre.

Re:The actual article?

[gmhowell]

Maybe it would be a good idea to read the link, seeing that it would be quite difficult to link to the actual article. To whit:

Since Polygraph, the quarterly publication of the American Polygraph Association, is not readily available to most members of the public, I will begin by citing the abstract of Mr. Menges' article...