Intel To Redesign PC With "Grantsdale" Chip

MarkRH writes "Over at ExtremeTech, we tracked down some Intel roadmaps that discuss "Grantsdale", Intel's most important chipset in nearly a decade. Grantsdale brings PCI Express to the PC, so get ready to toss out your motherboard, AGP graphics card, and maybe a host of other components, too. Also check out our articles on the "Tejas" microprocessor, Intel's first CPU to forego pins (check out the waffle iron socket!), as well as the real reason Banias saves so much power."

Comments

PCI Express effect on graphics cards

[writertype]

It's going to be really interesting, I think, to see what this does for the holiday selling season. Since it's out there now that Grantsdale is going to have such a dramatic effect on PC architecture, what is this going to do for sales of graphics cards? Of sound cards?

It looks like PCI will be supported in some way, but it's almost up to a motherboard manufacturer to come forward and say, "OK, we're only going to support one PCI slot, so figure out what you want to keep, now."

My guess is that Nvidia's NV35 will be released later this year (fall?) on AGP8X, but that it will REALLY run well on PCI Express. So--wait, or buy? An old question, but with far more significance.

Re:PCI Express effect on graphics cards

[Max Romantschuk]

It's going to be really interesting, I think, to see what this does for the holiday selling season. Since it's out there now that Grantsdale is going to have such a dramatic effect on PC architecture, what is this going to do for sales of graphics cards? Of sound cards?

I doubt this holiday season will be any big break for PCI Express. Remember when PCI was introduced? Roughly around the time of the first Pentiums. You can still buy motherboards with ISA slots...

It looks like PCI will be supported in some way, but it's almost up to a motherboard manufacturer to come forward and say, "OK, we're only going to support one PCI slot, so figure out what you want to keep, now."

The same applies here, the transition won't happen over night. There is lots of stuff which runs just fine on the bandwidth that PCI has to offer. You will have to decide what to keep, but I'd say that years from now.

Re:PCI Express effect on graphics cards

[buffer-overflowed]

And sometimes you need an ISA slot. It's rare, but recently I've had occassion to really, really need one (in fact several...).

Sure they're slow, ancient, legacy (appologize for the redundancy there) but sometimes you just really need an older piece of hardware or a board you can solder and design yourself without an EE degree.

The same will be true of PCI. There are more PCI cards out there than ISA, so PCI-Express should really be backwards compatible, capable of both modes. Or at least have a few slots on it that are mutual, then faze it out over a few years.

Why don't major vendors get the fact that some of us like our legacy stuff and don't want to move just because we "have" to?

Big deal

[Jason1729]

so get ready to toss out your motherboard

Since when can you upgrade to a new generation CPU and not have to replace the motherboard?

Jason
ProfQuotes

Why NewCard?

[KiahZero]

I don't understand why revamped PC-cards are being pushed for desktop computing. I can understand increasing the bus speed on PCI cards (faster real-time TV encoding... yay!), but why does this need to happen in cards the size of two quarters?

Is the goal to make it so that users with two PCs can carry peripherals from one computer to the other? I would also hope that there will be legacy ports. I'm not planning on buying a new chip for a while, but I really don't feel like having to buy brand new hardware when I do. I'll have to buy a new video card (no AGP port), but they could at least put a few standard PCI ports on the mobo so I could slap in my more expensive expansion cards.

Re:Why NewCard?

[Apple Acolyte]

KiahZero opined: I don't understand why revamped PC-cards are being pushed for desktop computing.

The parent makes it seem as if PCI Express only defines the standard for new generation PC Cards. It doesn't simply do that; otherwise it would be nearly worthless as the next generation successor to PCI. Take a look at relevant quotes from the PCI-SIG:

The "Mini PCI Express Electromechanical specification, an alternate for the existing Mini PCI form factor specification, is being completed for membership review and is expected to be finalized for publication in the first quarter of 2003."

"IBM is excited about the PCI Express architecture because of its compatibility with the past and its high-bandwidth options for the future," said Peter Hortensius, Vice President of Development, IBM Personal Computing Division. "IBM embraces open industry standards and provides innovation on top of them, and PCI Express presents outstanding opportunities for solving real customer problems."

Mini-PCI Express, then, is a spec in its infancy that is designed to replace the previous generation PC Card. It should make future laptops far more expandable, which is a great thing. And PCI Express is one of multiple candidates for desktop expansion. Yet, it seems that PCI Express is going to be backward compatible with important specs, and that it seemingly has industry support. I just wanted to make sure everyone understands the PCI card isn't going to be replaced by the PC Card.

Intel's first CPU to forego pins...

[tommy]

I beg to differ. My 10MHz Intel 286 had no pins. It looked like this.

Re:Intel's first CPU to forego pins...

[Jordy]

That is known as CLCC packaging. It was used for a couple versions of the Intel 80186 (made by AMD), Siemens 80286, Intel 80286 (made by AMD) and AMD 80286.

In addition, slot-based packaging (SEP, Slot-A, etc.) all used gold fingers just like PCI cards.

transemta crusoe?

[TerraFrost]

it'll be interesting to see how the "Tejas" processor compares to the Transmeta Crusoe - currently, the least power intensive x86 compatable cpu out there...

also... if you're currious about PCI Express, this link seems to be pretty... informative:
http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/

and is anyone else disappointed that the new "Grantsdale" chipset isn't supporting rambus ram!? i know i am :(

Bloody tricks!

[HoneyBunchesOfGoats]

From the second page of the article on Banias:

EBL encompasses four features: a non-synchronous vertical refresh control for displays, which will save between 200 and 800 milliwatts; an optimized LCD inverter design, expected to cut an additional 550 mW to 880mW; device performance state monitoring, which will reduce overall power by an additional 900 mW; and a device power profile utility tool, designed to monitor the power of all devices in the system.

So basically, their "über-cool" power-saving processor isn't what's really saving power, but a bunch of other little tricks in the rest of the system. All they did with the processor was take a PIII-M, ramp up the frequency, and slap on a bigger cache.

Not that I hold this against them or anything; if in the end it increases battery life, that's a Good Thing. I just wish they wouldn't hype up their new processor as being so great, when really there isn't much more improvement over the PIII.

PCI Express FAQ

[Anonymous Coward]

PCI Express FAQ here.

Quick summary: Formerly known as 3GIO, Software compatibility. Point-to-point instead of bus. 1 to 32 bits wide @ 2Gbps per bit = 16 GB/sec max (vs. 1-4 GB/sec for regular PCI; this is about AGP16X)

Joy of joys

[buffer-overflowed]

Even more stuff that as someone who uses computers primarily for work, I don't need.

Sure it looks good, yea, I'm all exited about a "new era of computing," but it breaks backwards compatibility with all of my old stuff and I bet it still can't outperform the mainframe I program on now in terms of raw MIPS.

Why did we ever move to PC's from thin clients in the first place? We have consoles for gaming, windows for PC gaming, and *nix for serious work (try doing something else under say Solaris, and posting to slashdot doesn't count.) now. Why all of the redundancy? Aren't we in an economic downturn? The bus speeds and improvements are nice, don't get me wrong... but in a PC? It removes the PCI bottleneck problem, but I don't see where it removes the HDD bottleneck in terms of raw speed.

All in all i'd say it's a nifty gadget.

When we get holographic/full immersion, give me a call. I'd love to see what my brain can output in raw source without needing to actually type.

--I'm just continuing my tradition of posting drunk, pay me no head. Don't post to slashdot under wine.

Whole new bus?

[bluesoul88]

I just hope it ain't the short bus. I hate getting on that friggin' thing, and I don't do well with ramps on a friggin' bus.

Grantsdale?

[Anonymous Coward]

Feh. Anybody who's seen intel's roadmap (as I have) knows the Grantsdale chip is just a stepping stone.

Personally, I'm waiting for the Higgenbotham chips in early 2005. After that, the Ranmatheau chips. In earlier 2007, expect amazing performance from the Cleodranvier chipset.

2008 brings us the amazing 10-GHz Hefnestranthellhaller chipset, and 2009 unveils Intel's most impressive chip: the Quackenbush.

But the true surprise comes in 2010, when the world experiences the amazing speed of the Gentrecktagazunt.

Truly wonderous times ahead.

Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all PCI-express will come in second half of the NEXT year.

Second, PCI-Express x 16 just double AGP8X bandwidth. We can expect same "dramatic" (1-2%) performance increase as we saw with AGP8X and AGP4X. It will take many years until this kind of performance is really needed. Since high-end video cards will have 512MB of very fast (~40GB/s) local memory in H2-2004, 4GB/s bandwidth offered by PCI-Express won't make much difference compared to 2GB/s AGP solution.

PCI-Express add-on cards won't be popular anytime soon. Since:
1) PCI replacement (PCI-Express x 1) offers just 250MB/s of bandwidth, thats isn't a lot more than current 133MB/s offered by PCI.

2) >90% of users won't need any external cards in H2-2004. Currently we have following stuff integrated on the chipset/motherboard:
-two 100Mbps NICs
-Sound with better quality than original Audigy
-Firewire/USB2 etc

In 2004 we will also have:
- NICs will be updated to 1Gbps
- Wireless LAN
- DSL modem

3) In the server market PCI-Express won't be popular since it isn't compatible with PCI. Currently servers use PCI-X (1GB/s) and it will be replaced with PCI-X 2.0 (2GB/s). This is enough bandwidth for many SCSI-raids and Gigabit NICs.

6 month driver releases?

[rainwalker]

From the article, ..."Granite Peak" initiative, which limits the number of driver revisions to one every six months, making the launch of each new chipset even more significant.

So, what exactly does this mean? If I have a problem with Intel's drivers that, say, prevents my machine from booting (not that THAT has ever happened) I have to wait 6 months for the next revision? I don't understand what driver revision schedules have to do with product release cycles.

Also from the article: "...[people buying] the latest GeForce card near the end of this year, when six months later it won't work [fit] inside a new PC?"

This is a non-issue for most people, I think. Those people who buy new video cards every six months (you know who you are) aren't really going to balk at replacing motherboard, CPU, and video card all at the same time, if it yields a 25% performance improvement (or more). At the other end of the scale are people who upgrade video cards by buying a new Dell (or whatever), for whom this is also not an issue. Those of us in the middle just won't buy a new motherboard/CPU until we can afford to replace the whole shebang anyway. Once we do, we will most likely build a whole new machine.

Anyway, it's not like nVidia and ATI are going to stop making AGP cards; I'm sure that both connections will be supported. If you look around, you can still get PCI versions of most cards on the market (shudder).

What's Obsolete?

[maizena]

No matter how long you wait, the day after you buy/upgrade your PC it will be already obsolete.

We shall not forget that, as any other enterprise, Intel's business is to make MONEY. Cutting edge technology is just a plus...

It's in their best interest to push forward the their latest family of products. This is how Intel works and obsolescence is carefully planed by them.

It's up to us, as consumers, to set the pace and not get swept by the low-tech fears. An upgrade is really only necessary when your PC performance gets in the way of you doing your usual tasks.

Therefore, we must keep in our minds that obsolescence is dictated by our needs, not by theirs.

IP and lock-in aspects

[dpilot]

As others have said, so what if a new motherboard is needed - they're obsolete about as fast as a CPU chip, anyway. Another post indicates that PCI eXpress is a reasonably open standard.

But the IP/lock-in aspects still bother me. Intel behaved like a spanked puppy for a few years after their Rambus fiasco, but lately they seem to be back at those games, again.

They've taken steps to ensure that Banias/Centrino only sells with their chipset. It's only a logo program, but it probably carries a heavy enough advertising kickback behind it to have the force of law.
The Itanium is *the most proprietary* CPU on the planet, or at least a contender for the crown. No second sources, no cross-licensing on any of the IP.

So in this light, anyone want to bet that Tejas is not tied to Grantsdale?

Assuming it is, the net effects are questionable. It appears that Intel is driving compatibility away from the CPU pins, and out to the motherboard plug interface. I seriously doubt they have the capability to push it any further than that. In the long run, this probably opens the market niche for AMD and Via C3, because it's closing the market for low-cost chipset providers to service Intel CPUs.