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P2P Services Speak Out Against Gnutella2
An anonymous reader writes "Three leading Gnultella services voice their opinions on Gnutella2 or Mike's Protocol as they refer to it as. None of the three recognize Gnutella2 as true Gnutella and worry its propritary protocol will divide the Gnutella community. In the first interview Vincent Falco of BearShare contributes his thoughts. The second interview gets input from Greg Blidson of LimeWire, and Arno Steenbekkers from XoloX."
From the GDF:
"......You could have just left it alone...but unfortunately you decided to have yourself added to the...
[flames=on]
RETARD LIST! YOU F#$@ING IMBECILE! I DONT EVEN NEED TO ARGUE ON THE MERITS WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE **ONLY** JACKASS WHO OFFERRED TO IMPLEMENT G2 BEFORE THE SPECS WERE RELEASED! GUESS WHAT DUDE! YOUR CLIENT SUCKS A BIG FAT DONKEY'S DICK! NO WONDER MORPHEUS DUMPED IT LIKE THE STEAMING HALF COILED TURD THAT IT IS!
[flames=off]......."
This guy is a developer? That's pathetic, this looks like something a ten year old posted.
If you are wondering what client he is speaking of, he is talking about Gnucleus.
Here's what happened today on the Gnutella Developers Forum
Vinnie says Shareaza is damaging the Gnutella network. Well, his own words are blackening the public's view of ALL Gnutella developers. He himself should be banned from Gnutella, period.
Consider this: most people do not visit the GDF group. So when Vinnie makes an ass out of himself, most people just see his words, and assume that he represents all the other Gnutella developers. People see Vinnie flaming, spewing insults left and right. What are people supposed to think?
Vinne, it\'s alright to make points such as "Shareaza is flooding the network with requests." But when you say things such as "YOU ARE A F#$@ING MORON YOU GODDAMNED SON OF A WHORE," you have gone way past the line.
"I've tried being civil"
If such behavior is what you define as civil...
"I suggest other developers "
Wait, Vinnie, you make it sound like you represent the WHOLE Gnutella community. However, this statement makes it sound like there hasn't been a complete agreement yet, and that this is more your own personal opinion. Has an official decision been made or not?
"YOUR CLIENT SUCKS A BIG FAT DONKEY'S DICK!"
So this is what Gnutella developers are like? Freely bashing other people's work and insulting them when all they have done is try to improve the network. I guess I'll make sure to avoid Gnutella developers at all costs, they sound nasty. Or maybe it's just Vinnie.
Last question: why have I not negatively responded to Adam Fisk? Because he has been civil. You have not.
I can't remember the last time I ever considered Gnutella as an operable and useful P2P application.
Try gtk-gnutella out of CVS. Gnutella these days is a very, very different beast from what it once was (thanks to lots of work on the part of the GDF), and its performance is *far* better than it once was.
The reason Kazaa doesn't work for everyone is because it's the last remaining closed P2P protocol. Linux folks can't clone it (and it's extremely difficult to reverse engineer the authentication stuff) because of that, so Kazaa isn't available for Linux.
I've found that Napster for music, eDonkey for large files works pretty well.
I wish more people used oggs, though...
May we never see th
I agree, anytime i search for anything these days, all gnutella comes up with are about 100 files out there all called exactly what i want, but containing some kind of advertisment in surprise. Yeah, i can block that persons IP and stuff... but, there is so much false stuff floating around out there now that its not even worth the effort.
I hear figures which say P2P and napster kill off the music indutry, but in my own personal experience, i have seen quite the opposite: pushed by hearing new music for the first time in a long while, my father bought the only cds he has bought since they came out last year, and many of his friends also. i have also been on ICQ and asked friends, on the other side of the world "you hear so-and-so yet?" yeah, search on napster... and within days they have ordered the CD (which may or may not be sold locally in their country.).
i dunno where all these figures have come from, nobody prefers to listen to music through crappy computer speakers, they buy CDs to go in decent stereo systems when it is good enough...
Um, I'd say his point is that Kazaa only works on Windows. If a person does not use Windows, then they can't use Kazaa, and therefore it's not a choice for some people. How difficult is this to understand? Therefore some people are doubtless interested in Gnutella. Especially since it's gotten quite a bit better, recently.
Gtk-gnutella works quite nicely, I've found. Downloaded all of Trigun and half of Hack Sign from there so far. I even managed to find some Maaya Sakamoto MP3s. Not that I downloaded them, for that would be illegal and bad. *Ahem*. Anyway, the only Anime I couldn't find reliably was Outlaw Star, so I grabbed that from IRC.
One word.
ShareReactor.
Complete, well-ripped releases. Most of the good stuff is in the forums. Sure, it's slow during peak hours, but that's a small price to pay for knowing that everything will arrive, intact, full quality, checksummed.
Also, eMule is a really nice-looking client.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
For really weird or rare stuff, I check out oth.net. It's a search engine for ratio FTP sites. Some of them are scams. Ignore these. Also good for music videos.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I've found that Napster for music, eDonkey for large files works pretty well.
I assume you mean KaZaA for music...
Just a few comments on your comment. KaZaA (Lite) works in Linux under Wine. The KaZaA Lite site even links to instructions on how to get it working. The fact that KaZaA is a closed protocol is not the reason it doesn't work for everyone. No one program is going to work for everyone. KaZaA works for most people I know, from the indie rock fans, to the hip-hop fans, to the jazz fans.
eDonkey is good for large files, albeit slow. I've been using BitTorrent for a lot of my large files (the latest buffy and anime fansubs) lately, although I don't know if this counts as P2P.
I took your advice and grabbed gtk-gnutella (there was a recent release, so I didn't see the need to get the CVS). I'll have to use it some more, but it seems like the same old beast to me. Will give it some more time, though.
"Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
The problem with Gnutella and GDF is that it's a true soap opera with a few developers, that do not like each other that much. Well, as long as e.g. Bearshare can take control and distribute it's spyware, all of it's own proprietary extensions or seperation of the Gnutella network were fine. There are so many selfish facts and quotes from GDF developers in the past... I can't take them serious anymore! For example read what "holly" Bearshare developer states:
... AFAIK some Gnutella clients run a home channel there and you can meet develoepers as well.
:)
Vinnie (who owns gnutella3.com) has said that Bearshare will be "moving forward with our own proprietary Gnutella 3 technology". He has also stated that "Our goal is not to block Shareaza from the network, but rather to give their users the worst possible experience so they will stop using the application. I'll leave it up to your imagination as for the methods we will employ". Some reports say that a block may already be in place in the latest version of Bearshare.
From http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=90
Civil war among Gnutella developers is not somthing new!
Every good client hiting Gnutella was usually accused being bad or crap. Once it was Phex, then Xolox, today it's Shareaza. Even well integrated features like 'swarmed downloading' were once rated "bad" from those developers who didn't have it in their own clients - now it's standard in every client. Bearshare has a long tradition of hidden features (not available to other vendors) or in suddenly blocking one competitor. Is there any Gnutella client that wasn't blocked or bitched in the past? I doubt that.
It's a long history of bitching against each other... not efficient work but indeed amusing. New ideas on the GDF looks more like "eat it or die" than a detailed and productive discussion. Other ideas are optimized for marketing instead for technology... Limewire decided to call it's superpeer concept "Ultrapeer" to make it look better than other P2P systems (even though it wasn't even reliabale - is it today or does it need more patches called GUESS2, GUESS3 HYPERMEGAGUESS?).
Of course there are exception! I'd like to name two: For exmaple one open source developer, John from Gnucleus, has written lines and lines of free code. Continously implementing new features while at the same time avoiding (the worst) GDF fights. For example, the Gnutella protocol documentation at http://rfc-gnutella.sourceforge.net/ mainly from Tor Klingberg & Raphael Manfredi - which was started long after the big ones had there userbase already (no papers prolly to keep new developers away and to increase greedy spyware businees plans? *asking*). I hope those guys and also Shareaza keep their motivation to innovate and help the Gnutella community. For those who believe the latest Bearwire hype (Bearwire = Bearshare + Limewire business alliance), I suggest speak with some other developers.... log on to irc.p2pchat.net
I recomend to read the GDF archives and please poste some of the most funniest quote. Let's make a Gnutella soap opera best of.
Greets, Mark
PS: I wonder why Xolox sneaks to the side of Bearshare and Limewire. strange. well, must be one rules of a true soap opera: suprising changes or dead twin brothers popping up from nowhere.
I can't believe that when I searched the list of replies to this article there is no mention of Gnucleus. Not only is it open source, but there is not spyware or anoying pop-up ads in the program. I have used quite a few different Gnutella clients and I have found gnucleus to be one of the better. Sadly, they don't have a linux verison, but you can get the source and probably figure out a way to make it work on Linux or you could just run it in on linux using a windows emulator like Wine.
I don't know about Xolox or BearShare, but Limewire is open source, and the cvs version does not contain adware. http://www.limewire.org if you are interested. It's not as convienient as just downloading from the website, obviously, but it does get you an ad-free version of the client.
Well... NNTP servers cost money, at least decent ones do. Also, there's the retention problem. What, you wanted last year's Buffy episodes? Sorry, those have been swept off the server for months now. ShareReactor releases may occasionally lack sources, but ask on the forum and someone will reshare. Anything on the mainpage will have sources, even if it's months old.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Um, I'd say his point is that Kazaa only works on Windows. If a person does not use Windows, then they can't use Kazaa, and therefore it's not a choice for some people. How difficult is this to understand?
Kazaa Lite runs under wine.
Check out this thread on Shareaza's forum if you want to read Mike's thoughtful response to Vinnie.
D =5 138
http://www.shareaza.com/forum/viewthread.aspx?I
Thus, only downloading 0day releases within a few days of their release is only when BitTorrent works well.
True (from my limited experience), but it still is p2p, even if it is specialized.
Also, you can't search on BitTorrent. You have to find websites to download from. If the website gets shut down, so does the ability to get the files.
Yes, but again, BT is a specialized p2p tool, not flawed. It cannot (and probably never wanted to) replace protocols like those used with Freenet or Gnutella.
The design goal was to make big files available to a relatively large number of people who know exactly what they want, with everyone participating in sharing the load.
But you made me think about a definition of p2p. I would probably come up with something very general.
A slide I found suggests that there is no consensus on the term. searchNetworking has a more precise definition. Hm, I'll do some reading...