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Lost Library Returns After 2000 Years

Posted by michael on from the mudbath dept.

Technodummy writes "An update on Reading the Ancient Papyri. The long-buried Villa of the Papyri, one of Italy's richest Roman villas famed for its library of ancient scrolls, opened to the public this weekend almost 2,000 years after it was submerged in volcanic mud. The scrolls, which looked like sticks of charcoal when they were first discovered, have mostly turned out to be works of Greek epicurean philosophy from the first century BC."

21 of 46 comments (clear)

  1. Sticks of charcoal? by Lazyhound · · Score: 5, Funny


    Why? Did they store them on top of IBM monitors?

  2. Most exciting! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Hundreds of the scrolls have been carefully opened and many others could be read in the near future thanks to digital and scanning technology."

    These scrolls are not lost to us!

    Who among us has not thought bitterly of the 532,800 scroll of two-three hundred years before our era that comprised the Library of Alexandria?

    Today only a small portion of its catalogue remains to tease us with lost knowedge.

    Everything that has been salvaged of Greek antiquity is a tiny fraction of what we know they had.

    And why, in the case of the Library of Alexandria?

    Religious ferver. It was burned to the ground by followers of Christ.

    1. Re:Most exciting! by PD · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A quite unhistorical, but probably apt, story comes to us through the Norwegian humorist, Nils Kjaer. At the time of Caliph Omar's invasion of Egypt, the Arab officer on duty in the destruction of the library of Alexandria used two stamps with which he marked the books. One said: "Does not agree with the Koran--heretic, must be burned. The other said: Agrees with the Koran--superfluous, must be burned,"

      --
      If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
    2. Re:Most exciting! by moncyb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These scrolls are not lost to us!

      They're lost to me. I haven't seen any of them yet, nor am I sure where to look if they've been published. Will they be published? I found an old article which seems to indicate so, but nothing more. I didn't search very hard though.

      ...and how long until Hollywood tries to declare copyright on them, and the only way you will "see" them is through the eyes of a low brow movie. ;-)

      And why, in the case of the Library of Alexandria?

      Religious ferver. It was burned to the ground by followers of Christ.

      Don't worry, I'm sure the MPAA, RIAA, and Microsoft will help the modern world overcome such heresy, but with DRM rejection certificates instead of book burning. ;-)

      I tried a Google search, but didn't find anything very interesting. A little more info at an article titled "Ancient maths revealed". Some possibly interesting links (at bottom of page). An article at BYU which goes into slightly more detail about the multi-spectral imaging technology. Though your "religious ferver" comment may apply here. If BYU does create a digital archive, will they really release lesbian poetry?

    3. Re:Most exciting! by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 2, Informative
      And why, in the case of the Library of Alexandria?

      Religious ferver. It was burned to the ground by followers of Christ.

      You can believe that if you like, but there's very scant evidence for it no matter what Gibbon might say. There was not, and has ever been, any religious reason for Christians to have burned the Library of Alexandria. If you know of one, please cite a contemporary source. Julius Caesar is just as likely a suspect, as some ancient sources claim he set fire to the part of the city the Library occupied. So is Caliph Omar -- if you think Christians are intolerant, we've got nothing on Islam. (We should know; we've been living with them in the Middle East for about 1200 years now.)

      I say "just as likely" above, but that really should be "just as unlikely". All suspects in the burning have good alibis. Fact is, no one knows what happened to the Library. The best online summary I've found of the various legends concerning its fate is here.

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
    4. Re:Most exciting! by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As you point out, the people doing the burning in the verse you quoted were the owners of the books themselves. They were burning them not because it's seen as a valuable thing to do in and of itself, but because they had become convinced by the preceding events (Acts 19:13-17) that the mere possession of these books was a positive danger. In context, they would appear to have more likely been books on demonology rather than astrology. The NT isn't particularly hard on astrologers as such, and certain of them in particular it speaks of with clear approval.

      No doubt there were a number of such books in the Royal Library besides the historical, scientific, mathematical, engineering, and philosophical works. However, a Christian willing to torch the entire collection for the sake of the small number of occult works in it would have had to have been more fanatical than, say, St. Basil the Great, or St. John Chrysostom, or any of the multitude of Church Fathers who valued learning highly and spoke of pre-Christian philosophers in cautiously positive terms. We call this "zeal not according to knowledge", referencing Romans 10:2.

      I wasn't speaking of book-burning in general, of course. But I really don't think it's fair to judge societies of Antiquity, or even the Middle Ages, by modern standards. Even the Sibyl in the days of the Roman Republic burned her own books for no better reason than that she wasn't being paid for them. It hasn't always been an act of tyranny.

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
  3. who would have thought? by kurosawdust · · Score: 3, Funny

    It turns out that the last item checked out was "Burying a Village for Plebians"

  4. Overdue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did anyone else read this headline as "Lost books returned to library 200 years late"?

    What a fine . .

  5. Libraries by CokeBear · · Score: 4, Funny

    The crazy thing about libraries is that if they didn't exist and someone tried to invent them today, the publishers would have a conniption fit, and it would never happen. Give away knowledge for free? What are you, crazy? We'd go broke! Only a pinko/commie/liberal would come up with such a whacked out idea.

    --
    Reality has a liberal bias
    1. Re:Libraries by Selfbain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're confusing publishers with the recording/movie industry. There are a few publishers that even offer their books online for download for free (Baen is the largest of these I think). The publishing industry seems aware that in order to make money you must get the public interested in your product. I don't think they would oppose a library if it hadn't existed before.

      --
      Well, it has never been successfully tested.
    2. Re:Libraries by rocur · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If only this were true. See this article from the Washington Post about libraries and e-books. Having been involved briefly with e-books and talking to several publishers about fair use and DRM, it became obvious to us that book publishers want what the rest of the entertainment industry wants: pay-per-view. Libraries, used book stores, and people who loan books to their friends are all part of the same problem. And while the discussions started out about e-books, they always ended up talking about books in general.

  6. What about the Latin section? by nycroft · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Villa of the Papyri, located in ancient Herculaneum, and having been a Roman city is also thought to have a Latin section, still buried beneath the mud. Since Herculaneum was buried in mud, not ash like Pompeii, it is extremely difficult to dig the rest of the villa out. Not to mention that the foundations of buildings from the modern city of Ercolano probably impede the archaeologist's progress. As for letting the public in, I think that's great. I only hope they drained the pool of funky bacteria-infested swamp water below the entrance that has built up over the years.

    --
    Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action.
  7. AS much as i hate to refute good christian bashing by Unknown+Poltroon · · Score: 4, Informative

    THere are a lot of differnt stories about how the library of alexandria was destroyed, from people buring scrolls for heat, to the christians, to the muslims, to lack of funding. Im guessing its a little bit of each.

    --
    All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
  8. I can see it now by moc.tfosorcimgllib · · Score: 4, Funny

    Classics 180 & 181 just got a hell of a lot more material.

  9. But how much longer will they last? by You're+All+Wrong · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure, they can survive 2000 years entombed under a volcanic slick, but what next:
    Warm temperatures
    Dry humidity
    Ultraviolet light
    I sure hope they know what they're doing, or they'll be left with a pile of lightly stained flakes if they're not careful.

    YAW.

    --
    Your head of state is a corrupt weasel, I hope you're happy.
    1. Re:But how much longer will they last? by evalhalla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I believe that the scrolls have been removed, by now, and they're just opening the building; and to small groups of visitors, not to lots of people at a time.

  10. Did they say... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...what percentage of it is porn?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  11. more info and pictures of scrolls by lorax · · Score: 4, Informative

    More information about the villa and the Philodemus Project, including some pictures of the scrolls is at The Philodemus Project

  12. Good news by falsification · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is good news. I hope that once all the scrolls have been opened and published, we will finally have the complete oeuvres of such greats as Aristotle. It could change the way we think about the ancients. It probably will not be as significant an event as the rediscovery of the classics that preceded the Renaissance, however.

  13. two entire levels below by g4dget · · Score: 2, Funny
    "One of the biggest novelties uncovered is that the villa isn't just on one level, there are two entire levels below to explore,"

    Sounds like some sort of Morrowind expansion pack.

  14. As much as i hate to refute good moslem bashing by young-earth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just a little bit of time with Google and you'll find the most likely answer is it could never have been the Christians, as it was gone before 20 B.C., and since Christ was born around 4 B.C., well, it's obviously not the Christians nor is it the muslims, since they were later in history than the Christians.

    For a good summary, see here. Basically Plutarch and Livy both wrote that Caesar was responsible, and they wrote long before the Catholic destruction in 391 of the satellite library.

    --
    Got Wisdom?