Toshiba To Show Laptop Fuel Cells at CeBit

war3rd writes "According to The Register, Toshiba has finally been able to build a fuel cell for laptops that they will unveil at CeBit next week. The fuel cells are expected to last approximately 5 hours and are compatible with existing lithium-ion batteries. Form factor remains the only issue. The trick is that they use the water by-product from the cell to dilute the methanol source as it enters the reformer, and are therefore able to store higher concentrations of methanol in the cell. My only concern is how quickly can they get this to market?"

Comments

All we need now...

[swordboy]

It'd be nice if the component makers would establish an "open laptop" form factor. We've alreadt got mini-ITX. We just need a chassis/monitor and DC power specification.

but how long will they last?

[Pompatus]

My question is, how long will the battery hold up? I don't mean a single charge, I mean how long will the battery be usuable. Also, it states at the end of the article it will take 2-3 years to get to market. It's amazing that the poster of this story can't even read the article

Good luck...

[szcx]

I'm not sure airlines or the TSA will be thrilled about people using fuel-cell-powered devices on those long-haul flights.

Re:Good luck...

[afidel]

Why not, they already sell 40% alchohol solutions in greater quantities to anyone who wants to pay the couple bucks and allow liquid butane in larger quantities, both have at least as many BTU potential and in the case of the liqued Butane the conainer is activly designed to ignite the contents.

Oh, and obviously denatured as well

[nweaver]

Making it run on 40% ethanol, 60% water, denatured with methanol (nondrinkable) also is good, for the "lower cost (no booze taxes), lower availablity" fuel.

Usefulness?

[mr_zorg]

Let's see. Now I can have a batter with a moderately longer runtime, but refilling it is much more difficult than simply plugging it in. Who's going to go for that? OK, it's cool. OK, it's environmentally friendly, but is that enough to overcome the convenience factor?

Not that great

[gr8_phk]

Fuel cells would be great replacements for non-rechargable batterys, but not rechargables. Think about it. You hate to recharge your laptop, but you'll hate it more if you have to pay for fuel. You pay for electricity, but you don't usually think about it. You also don't pay for it if you charge your laptop at work. Yes, one way or the other we all pay for it - I'm talking about noticing it.

Methanol vs. Hydrogen ??

[w42w42]

Isn't Hydrogen the desired fuel for a fuel cell? I may be wrong, but I thought that anything besides pure hydrogen would have additional exhausts besides just warm or hot water.

If that is the case, I am not sure why I would opt for this, being that it 'only' gives me five/six hours run time between refills.

That's another point - buying refills for every six hours use is a little bit more cumbersome than just plugging your laptop into the wall and charging the battery, even though the battery will not last as long.

Re:Methanol vs. Hydrogen ??

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

You are correct in that Hydrogen is the only fuel that lets out water vapor as its only by-product. Any other fuel has carbon dioxide (and possibly carbon monoxide) as byproducts. Insert Global Warming debate here. I don't think at these levels you'd have to worry much about the ice caps.

The main problem is that hydrogen has a very low energy/mass ratio. The only way to get anything even close to a decent range is to have massively compressed hydrogen. This in itself is a hazard. If you see a fuel cell in a car, look at how much cladding they have on that hydrogen tank. You're not going to have that kind of hydrogen tank shielding on something meant to be portable. Methanol is the simplest chemical that is liquid (and therefore relatively dense) at room temperature that they can use in a fuel cell.

The other big problem is hydrogen is very reactive - read explosive. Probably not a good idea to have explosives on your laptop.

Also, its easier for you to refuel methanol than to refuel hydrogen. There's no hydrogen infrastructure. Not much of a methanol one either, but you probably could get methanol if you looked for it.

Re:Refuelling is easier...

[briancnorton]

Yes, but where do you get fuel from? I get power from a socket.

Maybe

[papasui]

Computer manufactures should focus on lower power solutions instead of building better batteries (or combine the two). My 17" Powerbook I ordered is rated at 4.5 hrs already with a standard battery. In general the pc world seems that the solution is always to throw more power at the problem instead of trying to come up with a more elegant method of dealing with it. (This isn't a rip on PC's I use both Macs and Pcs daily, just that there's more than 1 solution to most problems)

Re:Ultracapacitors?

[chill]

Because batteries deliver the charge over a long period of time, whereas capacitors deliver it in a quick burst.

Yes, "ultracapacitors", too. The company you linked to is trying to market their product as an adjunt to batteries -- to deliver the surge of power needed for certain operations like startup, burst writets, etc. They aren't a replacement for batteries.

The confusion is the phrase "last up to 10 times as long" -- meaning their total lifetime is longer than the batteries, but not while delivering constant power.

Exactly...

[SuperKendall]

And, you can use any power outlet anywhere for free (except at home of course) whereas the fuel always costs extra - if you can find it.

Re:Mmmmm Methanol.....

[sliph]

Completely unlike the alternative right? I doubt it would be too hard to package methanol into safe, disposable, self-sealing packages.
At least methanol doesn't ignite when it comes in contact with air.

Lithium

[philip_bailey]

The "safety card" for lithium.

It's doesn't seem to me that methanol in a sealed cell is any more dangerous than the lithium you have in your current laptop battery, or for that matter than the ethanol in the spirits sold as "Duty Free" on international flights.

Re:Fuel? No, thanks.

[juhaz]

It's alcohol, not dynamite.

Having this thing on your lap is no bigger deal than carrying one of those miniature bottles of booze. Horrified about danger of explosion when holding one of those? No? Thought so.

And yes, you could run your lawnmower on ethanol just as well as on methanol.

Airline certainly doesn't seem to have anything against selling you ethanol for your lap on flight themselves, either.

5 hours?

[anethema]

I sure hope that improves. Thats barely better than my current celeron 633 laptop. If better at all. Certainly not at idle.

I dont relish paying a lot of money for a battery that doesnt last any longer than my current one.

Well, then again filling it is a lot quicker than charging a battery.
Ignore me i guess, i must be in a bitching mood. :|