Australian Federal Police Raid Major ISPs

pflodo writes "The Australian (newspaper) has an article about Telstra the major Australian ISP and other 'declined to name' ISPs that have been raided by Australian Federal Police to 'seek the identity of particular subscribers' in relation to their activity and files stored on the ISP's servers. I imagine they will eventually raid some domestic homes and make a scapegoat of some unfortunate teenagers."

Comments

big problem here...

[TWX_the_Linux_Zealot]

Why would someone committing computer-related illegal activities store anything on their ISP's servers? That's just begging for the systems administrator to find it themselves, and report you for something (assuming it violates their ethics code).

One of the strongest truths in anything that isn't necessarily legal, or could be interpretted as not legal, is that you don't leave any evidence that others can control. If you're really smart, you leave no evidence at all, period, but if you do leave something, make sure that it is in your control, and your control alone.

The other thing that I'm shuddering about is the possible downtime effects that this has on everyone else who uses the equipment for fully legitimate purposes. Suddenly, the possibility of server outages, network outages, and other miscellaneous service problems ensue, especially if a federal entity decides that equipment itself is to be confinscated as evidence, and they don't take care to properly handle what mess they leave behind.

Re:big problem here...

[sm.arson]

One of the strongest truths in anything that isn't necessarily legal, or could be interpretted as not legal, is that you don't leave any evidence that others can control. If you're really smart, you leave no evidence at all, period, but if you do leave something, make sure that it is in your control, and your control alone.

That is a good point; clearly, most of these "criminals" are just young kids out there looking to make a "name" for themselves by hosting the most mp3s and warez. They don't take the extra precautions because they don't think they are commiting any real crime.

The real criminals (IMHO) are the scum that try to sell pirated CD-Rs and DVD-Rs in the backalleys of New York, and I'm 100% in support of corporate and government efforts to crack down on these guys.

I don't, however, agree with the RIAA's apparent goal of making a multi-million dollar example out of some 16 year old kid. Just direct complaints to the ISP and have them shut down the account after it's been proven to host pirated files. No need to bust down doors and put people behind bars...

Re:big problem here...

[supabeast!]

"Why would someone committing computer-related illegal activities store anything on their ISP's servers?"

You assume too much. Some of the sleazier warez groups and many child porn groups share hacked servers. If someone at the ISP was involved in such activities, raiding the criminals first may have lead to destruction of evidence by the bad guy on site. By raiding the ISPs directly, the authorities get the servers, secure the hard disks, and then arrest the bad guys later.

Re:big problem here...

[ATMAvatar]

The other thing that I'm shuddering about is the possible downtime effects that this has on everyone else who uses the equipment for fully legitimate purposes. Suddenly, the possibility of server outages, network outages, and other miscellaneous service problems ensue, especially if a federal entity decides that equipment itself is to be confinscated as evidence, and they don't take care to properly handle what mess they leave behind.

This bothers me as well. There's a good chance that raids like this can do far greater financial damage than the piracy they are trying to combat. How many online businesses will be affected? What happens if valuable subscriber data is lost as a result of the raids?

It sickens me how the authorities and lawmakers bend over backwards for the recording/movie industry without so much as considering the negative consequences of what they are doing. I suppose this is just another glaring example of how you can buy "justice." It's only a matter of time before stuff like this happens in the US, and I wonder how many times I can look forward to lose 'net access because some tard using my ISP leaves his linkin park (or some other equally worthless band) mp3 collection on his webspace.

Re:Can somebody explain Australian law for me?

[SQL Error]

It can happen that way.

I've actually seen this first hand (under slightly diferent circumstances). They don't charge in with guns drawn, but they do appear without notice, in considerable numbers, bearing appropriate warrants and court orders, and secure anything that they might consider evidence. Which may be your mail server.

The idea is to preserve the evidence, but the way they go about it is misguided and unnecessary more often than not.

Holy shit...

[MoThugz]

From the Article: FEDERAL police have executed search warrants on Telstra and internet company Eftel in one of Australia's largest investigations into alleged music piracy, which could be worth up to $60 million.

Wow... $60 million!

Assuming the price of a CD is $20, it means that the pirate has an MP3 collection of equivalent to 3,000,000 CDs!

Assuming each CD has 10 songs on it, then the pirate has 30 million MP3s!

Assuming each MP3 is about 5 megs... then the amount of storage required is 150TB!

Did they raid Kazaa's ISP literally... or is this just one journalist's idea of sprucing up what should have been a normal IP-infringement case?

Re:Let's look down the road, shall we?

[Motherfucking Shit]

I don't think these analogies are really accurate. Of course it's perfectly legal to build your own bicycle, sew your own clothes, and (in some places) brew your own ale. It's also legal to go down to your local music shop, buy a guitar, and make your own music. In all of these cases you're making a creation of your own, using resources you obtained legitimately. You aren't "taking anything away" from anyone or any company.

What it's not legal to do is hop onto someone else's bicycle parked on the sidewalk and ride away, stuff a pair of Levi's up your shirt on the way out of the department store, or walk out of the gas station with a few Colt 45s. And whether we like it or not, it's also generally not legal to share music.

Re:"Valuable" Music

[ratamacue]

What's really ironic about drug raids is that the "street value" they quote is a function of prohibition, not market economics. Government sets the price of illegal drugs, not drug dealers! The higher the level of prohibition, the higher the price of black market items. The more tax money they throw at the "problem", the more money the drug dealers can make. And the more money the drug dealers make, the better their chances of avoiding the law. It's a win-win situation for government, which profits not only in revenue but power over the people, and it's a win-win situation for drug dealers who are clever enough to avoid the law. The only losers here are the tax payers, who pay not only in tax dollars but liberty (including but not limited to ownership of your own body) and security (which decreases proportional to the violent crime stimulated by the black market).

Am I concluding that prohibition is designed specifically to benefit government at the expense of the people? You bet I am.