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Copyright Legitimacy vs. Defending Clients?

trmj asks: "I run a hosting company, and today I received an e-mail, claiming to be from an animation firm, about one of my clients hosting pirated information. As usual, before entertaining a claim of this sort, I researched the claim (there was a bit of legitimacy in it) and what the laws are governing this issue. After that, I replied in the appropriate manner, however, found that the original e-mail address was not valid, leading to the discovery that neither was the e-mail. As a hosting provider, how far should I go to protect the rights of my clients while upholding the law, and still verify every claim that comes in?"

15 of 58 comments (clear)

  1. As far as I'm concerned . . . by base3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    . . . you score points with me for not just whacking the user, no questions asked, like the major ISPs seem to be doing.

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
    1. Re:As far as I'm concerned . . . by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you score points with me for not just whacking the user, no questions asked, like the major ISPs seem to be doing.

      Amen. Kudoes to you for it.

      Seems to me that the volume of specious email like the fabricated one you received is such that you can not practically afford to give an increasing fraction of your valuable time to sifting the claims submitted by email.

      Has anyone come up with an auto-responder that ISP's can use that pretty much automate the task of

      Dear Spammer:

      Thank you for your email.
      Unfortunately, no individual here will read it and nor is authorized to formulate the proper response that it deserves.

      If you have a specific legal issue to raise, then please send a registered letter to the following address detailing the specific user and specific violation and dates of violations.

      <insert address of home office>
      I would imagine that would help cut down the volume to genuine concerns.
      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  2. You now know. Knowing !=plausible deniability by narratorDan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First I would notify your client that (s)he is violating copyright (this takes care of your first problem), state what section of your use policy (you have one right?) (s)he is violating. State what your actions will be, removal, reporting, etc. Before the email you had the coverage of plausible deniability, now you don't (anon tip). In the end save your notice and forget it, if anything comes of it, you can state that you had informed him(her) and they removed it, then replaced it at a later date.
    But, IANAL
    NarraterDan

    --
    "If you're not confused by quantum mechanics, you really don't understand it." - Niels Bohr
  3. You know the /. answers by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Ethical Opinions -
    See no evil, hear no evil, your client is accountable for himself.

    You are honor bound to protect your defenseless client to the best of your abilities.

    Keep him informed of the situation and let him deal with it. That's the extent of your duties.

    Harshly warn your client for jeopardizing your business and your credibility. Kick him out if doesn't comply. Protect your livelihood.

    Insert coins and ask again.

    Legal Opinion -
    Ask elsewhere. A LAWYER would be good.

    Sorry if this is curt. I just think that if an entire thread can be covered in one post then it should be.

    --

    Operator, give me the number for 911!
  4. Errr... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Funny

    As a hosting provider, how far should I go to protect the rights of my clients while upholding the law, and still verify every claim that comes in?"

    You know, if you're looking for crucial legal advice, I really don't think you should be relying on Slashdot. "But, *your Honor*, 'autopr0n' on Slashdot *said* that it would be okay!"

    We already know that most Slashdotters would *like* you to do nothing, for example, so your chance of getting a legally useful opinion is about zip.

    1. Re:Errr... by Harik · · Score: 2, Informative
      0x0d0a writes:
      You know, if you're looking for crucial legal advice, I really don't think you should be relying on Slashdot. "But, *your Honor*, 'autopr0n' on Slashdot *said* that it would be okay!"

      Actually, this slashdotter has had to handle WAY too many of these. It's MY opinion that a trivially forgable email is NOT a proper notification as required by the DMCA. Autoreplying requesting documents by certified mail gets rid of most of the bozos, and has the added bonus of costing the bounty hunters another $500 in legal time to prepare the paperwork.

      Also entertaining is pointing out the blatent and obvious fallacies in their email, and reminding them that it is an official document prepared under penalty of perjury. I've gotten DMCA notices about usenet postings on other ISPs due to it having an ao.net email address. (Cult of Scientology, generally)

      Once you get rid of the bozos by requesting documents, you're left with probable legitimate claims... people with EBooks in their web folders, things like that. At that point we comply with the letter of the law with a chmod 600 and tell the subscriber to deal with it.

      It's pragmatic. You protect most of your users from the bozos, and don't take an (expensive) corperate stand one way or the other on real copyright infringement cases.

      --Dan

  5. Motivation? by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any idea what the heck the email writer had in mind? Enemy of your client perhaps? Anyway, perhaps in the future you could save your time with a form reply request "clarification." That would help with authenticity -- if this kind of game is common.

    As you know, you are potentially liable for the copyright offenses of your customers, limited by the safe harbor exception I can't recall the details of. Once you've been notified, it may be foolhardy to ignore the wanring, as you could go down with the client. If you're like me, you may personally be kind of offended at people using your wares for criminal enterprises -- e.g., selling pirated songs. It appears the possibly malicious email writer has in fact brought a problem to your attention, and so you can't look the other way. (If they weren't malicious but wanted anonymity, maybe they could have just said so.)

    I would strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer on this for legal advice to can rely on, and that you establish a written policy on how inquiries like this email are handled. You will want a paper trail to show your diligence later, and for your own conscience to make sure nothing falls through the cracks. I don't know whether you'll want to discuss the email when you talk to your client, or just use the generic "it has come to our attention that..."

    Let us know what you do, OK?

    1. Re:Motivation? by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > As you know, you are potentially liable for the
      > copyright offenses of your customers, limited by
      > the safe harbor exception I can't recall the
      > details of.

      One of the details is that the notice must be in writing.

      > Once you've been notified, it may be foolhardy to
      > ignore the wanring...

      He hasn't been notified. An email with no return address is not a legal notice.

      > I would strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer on
      > this for legal advice to can rely on...

      Yes.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Motivation? by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Informative

      > You confuse legal notification with knowledge.

      No I don't.

      > The poster already has actual knowledge of the
      > problem thanks to his/her diligence.

      I doubt that the copyright owner can prove that.

      > Had the poster simply stumbled on the problem,
      > it would have to be dealt with.

      He should deal with it anyway, but that has nothing to do with my point, which is that anonymous emails are not DMCA takedown notices. No ISP is obligated to investigate allegations contained in anonymous emails. The suggestion that one should respond to such with a reply saying that the sender should follow up with a valid takedown notice via registered mail is excellent. If the reply bounces, tough.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    3. Re:Motivation? by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to drown in semantics, but the poster wants to know his legal obligation, not what he can get away with. With actual knowledge, safe harbor's dead unless he insists on lying about it, and I'm not giving advice on how to commit perjury.

      As for notice, greater formality is required before the ISP is *forced* to act. Registered mail is unnecessary (anyway, it's for valuable documents like stock certificates). Certified mail and even paper itself are also unnecessary. DMCA requires "A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed." Electronic signature?

      Last, I wouldn't blow off a halfway credible notification anyway, unless investigating it was simply impractical. This one was evidently credible and fraudulent, not anonymous, as discovered only when the person tried to reply. The email was also correct, though perhaps trivially. (I wonder as to the motivation, a peripheral issue.) Also aside from just wanting to do the right thing -- as the poster appears to -- the email could be one bit of evidence that the ISP had actual knowledge, even if it didn't. Staying out of court is often a lot cheaper than having a great defense when you get there.

      I would at a minimum follow up with a request for a DMCA-compliant takedown notice rather than take a chance on my being wrong or ending up in hot water regardless.

      This is not an attempt to provide the legal advice this person should get if they are unfamiliar with their legal obligations, even if I do happen to be a lawyer.

  6. A similar situation by primetyme · · Score: 2, Informative
    I also run a small hosting firm and see this situation at least once a week, because we host a large number of free sites as well as paid ones. Like you, I investigate the claim *first* instead of just wacking someone's account without looking into it. At that point, the site is either hosting copyrighted content, or they're not.

    If they are, then I tar up their files as proof of the content, send them a nice email saying "You're account has been terminated for breaking the following provisions of the Terms of Service you agreed to", delete their account, and BCC in the owner of the copyrighted material. This is the best way I've seen to handle it yet, and it accomplishes a number of things that are important to do IMO: Keep a copy of the data in question before deleting it, let the 'client' know they've broken your TOS and are losing the service as a result, lets the owner of the copyright know that you've dealt with the situation effectivley and you take matters like that serious(which as a hosting provider, you have to)

    If the client isn't hosting copyrighted material, an email should get sent back to the person asking for clarification, as you did. As for the question of how far you should go to protecting rights while upholding the law, I don't think they're mutally exclusive and you(and all hosting providers) should do as much as they can to use good judgement..

    1. Re:A similar situation by bellings · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At that point, the site is either hosting copyrighted content, or they're not.

      As far as I know, 100% of all content on all websites is copyright. Hell, this post that you're reading right now is copyright.

      I really wish that people wouldn't say "hosting copyright content" when they mean unauthorized reproduction of copyright material that exceeds fair use. It really seems that most of the vocabulary we're using for this discussion has been created by people with a vested interest in promoting the idea that only large companies create any content worth the protection of copyright, and that any unauthorized reproduction is illegal. Neither claim is true...

      --
      Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
  7. My Reply by Lord+Sauron · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm a SysAdmin in a foreign country (i.e. non-US. Thus I live in a free country and have no fear of DMCA)

    This was my real reply to
    anti-piracy@sonymusic.com. They didn't reply back, and nothing happened.

    A friend suggested me I could also have replied with a "Sory, me not understaind english". But I thought this reply would be more amusing for them.


    To: anti-piracy@sonymusic.com
    Subject: Response of Notice of Claimed Infringement
    From: xxxxxxxxxxx
    Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:18:03 -0300

    >We are asking for your immediate assistance in stopping this
    >unauthorized activity. Specifically, we request that you remove the

    Hell no.

    >In addition, we ask that you inform the individual(s) involved of the
    >illegality of his or her conduct and confirm with us, in writing,
    >that this activity has ceased.

    Get a life.

    >You should understand that under the Digital Millennium Copyright
    >Act, if you ignore this notice, your company/institution may be
    >iable for any resulting infringement.

    Please shove this fucking DMCA in your ass you greedy bastards.

    Pedro Tomas de Aquino
  8. Re:Hmmm ... as far as I'm concerned ... by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Your comment made me remember reading the cell phone manual. Have you ever read the FCC regulations for cell phone usage? You are not supposed to swear or use other obscene language on a cell phone. My hard line didn't come with a manual, but I would guess the rules are similar.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  9. Re:Hmmm ... as far as I'm concerned ... by unitron · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The rules for your hard line, often referred to as a land line, may not all that similar.

    A cell phone is, and is intended to be, a radio transmitter and receiver, and it was probably simpler to just extend the existing rules and regulations governing transmitters and receivers instead of writing up a special batch just for cell phones. It has to do with using airwaves (electromagnetic spectrum) that are administered by the FCC acting as stewards for the public, whose property that spectrum is, and with the inescapability that there is no way to guarantee that your transmission might not be picked up by someone other than who you intended and that the unintended receipients are entitled to a reasonable expectation of not being offended over airwaves of which they are just as much the owner as are you. There are also rules about not making use of or passing on to others anything you hear in a transmission of which you weren't the intended receipient.

    The classic model of a telephone communication system (a land line)does not involve use of the airwaves or anyone except the intended receipient of the communication being in receipt of the communication, so there's no obligation to unauthorized receipients to respect their tender sensibilities. Of course the fact that telephone wires traverse public lands and could radiate at unacceptable levels if not properly installed and maintained gives various governments a certain amount of leverage over their use.

    --

    I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.