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Judge Grants Padilla Access to Lawyer
Morphine007 writes "A judge has ordered that Jose Padilla be allowed to see his lawyer, and all I can say is it's about fscking time, I especially like the quote: "Lest any confusion remain, this is not a suggestion or a request that Padilla be permitted to consult with counsel, and it is certainly not an invitation to conduct further 'dialogue' about whether he is permitted to do so.""
What does this have to do with Online Rights?
Can't it be posted under a relevant topic, whatever that would be here on a 'News for nerds' website?
This man lost his rights as a US citizen when he traveled overseas and conspired with a foreign government to harm the United States. Read the fine print on your passport sometime. You can have your citizenship revoked for such actions. He is an enemy in a foriegn army. As such, it is appropriate for him to be tried by the military.
There is some very damning evidence that this piece of shit wanted to detonate a radiological device on our soil. This isn't "Free Kevin" time here. He's a fucking terrorist. And if he succeeded in doing what he intended, if my two little girls were dying of radiation poisoning, at least Morphine007 can sleep well that he wasn't denied due process.
For fuck's sake, can we get real about the fact this is a war?
Under the orders of which army is this person?
Which foreign power is waging war against the US?
No matter how much the US goverment hype this up, terrorists are common criminals, not regular armies.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
What do we need to do so people with thick skulls like you understand the difference between a foreign goverment and army in a declared war and an organized gang of derided individuals?
Was Timothy McVeigh an enemy combatant then?
Was the Unabomber an enemy combatant?
What about the snipper?
Do you get it or do you need a trepanation?
Jeez....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Quoting from your link
"...Citizens who associate themselves with the military arm of the enemy government,..."
What is the goverment to whose military arm this person is associated?
Again, Jeeez...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... until you answer the relevant questions, shut up, or admit you are mistaken.
French saboteurs were under the orders of the French goverment. A foreign goverment.
These alleged terrorists banded amongst themsleves, they represent no army and no goverment, they represent only themselves and their co-conspirators. In short, they are a criminal organization.
Criminal organizations are dealt with with common law, no matter how dangerous they are.
You are stretching laws that are not meant to fight individuals but organized armies and hostile goverments.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Name the entity that is in war against the US, please do us a favour and do it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is called terrorism people, get it straight. Find a worthy cause for your ire.
For those inisisting this is a war, write here the entity you are waging war against: _________
And write here the criteria by which you would considered the war over: __________
Did you win the war against Timothy McVeigh and their pals or are they hidden away as POWs? Yuor thoughtful answer here: _________
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The target is completely irrelevant, the pain caused sadly is as well.
War is clearly differentiated from terrorism, in a war you have an army to fight against and a goverment directing that army. You have neither of those when fighting terrorism.
Terrorists are the most vicious of common criminals and they should be fought as such. Aiming blindly breaking your own freedoms in the process will not stop them and will only erode your hard earned rights.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
An authentic FBI or CIA agent in /.!
He knows the evidence that nobody else in the public has seen!
And he knows sooo much that has already passed judgment!
Police, judge, jury and executioner emobodied in one power (why to meedle with the judiciary or the legislative). That is what is in offer and this FBI/CIA agent has already decided that it works.
Rejoice!
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If people fighting for the Taliban have such tenous links to al Qaeda then, answer (dotted lines for you thoughtful answers courtesy of truly yours): ............
-Why did the US attack AFghanistan in the first place:
-Why did the US went to the effort to flight people of the Taliban army to Gaunatanamo for further interroagation?........
The whole point of bombing Afghanistan was that the Taliban were supporting al Qaeda, this guy was part of the Taliban army and may I say, would have more insight into US affairs than an AFghani that has never left his country. Would not you want to use your wide self annointed powers to apply the necessary persuassion to obtain more information?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You have (somehow) all the facts. Nice to know that some people in /. have inside knowledge that is not available to the rest of the populace.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
What is the foreign state for which this person served?
Where is the evidence?
Where do you have the video of his oath?
Can you spell c-o-u-r-t-o-f-l-a-w or do I need you to explain to you where questions like the ones above should be answered?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Put up or shut up.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Oh my god are you totally lost there michael. This isn't some candy store robber here this is a real life terrorist. In case you missed it we are at "war" with terror. This makes padilla the equivalent of an enemy combatant and gives the government the right to refuse padilla without any of the rights associated to any american citizen uil the war is declared.
g /
Don't forget this judge already has an axe to grind with Bush to begin with so his motives are a little shacky and I would guess this order like his last with be ignored equally as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/12/04/padilla.rulin
I really hope you realize michael this isn't your average rebelious individual looking towards social deviance to stand out in a crowd. This man is a real threat to American's lives from coast to coast.
You stated:
"Welcome to Bush's America: where the oil companies and Jewish lobby decide how free you are allowed to be."
Oil companies I might be willing to give you. After all it should come as no surprise that America is rapidly turning into an oligarchy, the United *Corporate* States of America (sad but all too true), but the Jewish Lobby? Huh?
You might be on firmer, although probably just as erroneous, ground if you had stated the "Fundamentalist Christian Lobby". What does the "Jewish Lobby" have to do with either Bush or unlawful combatants?
Bush seems to be trying very hard to be the next Caesar, or Hitler. The "War on Terrorism", like the "War on Drugs" is just a convenient excuse to grab more power from an increasingly gullible populous. On many issues I believe Mein Furor Bush is wrong.
Naming people you don't like unlawful combatants, and holding them indefinitely without access to the courts is just un-American. In the various cases that people have been tossing around here, the accused actually got his day in court. In the case of French, or German saboteurs, regardless of who or what started it, when the war was over everyone knew. It was my understanding that traditionally, if we are at war, and the enemy gets captured then he is treated as a prisoner of war (POW) under any of the numerous treaties that we have signed. If he is a spy, or an unlawful combatant, then he is denied the rights and protections of a POW and instead is treated like a criminal. For example, if you are a soldier, in uniform, and you kill U.S. soldiers before you are captured, the government can't put you on trial for murder. On the other hand, if you are a saboteur and the bomb you planted kills a U.S. soldier, you can be charged with murder. The fact that you are an "unlawful combatant" means that you loose the protection that a POW status would have given you.
What the Bush administration is trying to do is create a nebulous non-status detainee. You aren't a POW, because then you would have certain rights granted to POW's. You aren't a criminal, because once again you would have certain rights as a criminal defendant in the U.S. court system. All that an "unlawful combatant" is, or used to be, was someone who claimed to be at war, but because of their actions is deemed a criminal not a POW. Padilla is a U.S. citizen that was arrested, and is accused by the government of either plotting to use a dirty bomb, trying to use a dirty bomb, or conspiring with others to use a dirty bomb. When his lawyers at the time filled a motion requiring the government to charge him or release him, they decided to do neither. Instead they claimed he was an unlawful combatant, whisked him off to a military base for *questioning*, and have denied him the ability to stand trial or even consult with an attorney.
This is wrong, period. If they can do it to him, they can do it to you. The government should not, now or ever, have the ability to accuse someone of anything and then detain and/or torture that person indefinitely. The judge rightly said, he has the right to counsel, and so let him consult with said counsel. Since the government is doing its darndest to hinder the process he stated it in what he hoped was a fairly direct, "I mean it, so you better do it" manner. Hence the quote at the top if this article that the submitter found so amusing.
What this has to do with the "Jewish Lobby" is beyond me. Other than the fact most (all?) of Israel's Arab neighbors would like to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth, and that both the 9/11 terrorists and Iraq are Arabs, I don't see how Jewish people fit in?
Perhaps you could elucidate?
Just my $0.02 (Canadian, before taxes)
Anyway, the point is that Jose Padilla never met the qualifications to have his citizenship revoked. If he had joined, say, Iraq's army (not fucking likely), then there could be a case.
HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.