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Game Industry Fights Violent Game Ban
sietekk writes "The video game industry told a federal appeals court on Wednesday that it has the same rights to free speech as moviemakers and publishers and urged the court to overturn a local government ban on the sale of violent video games to minors. Appearing before a three-judge panel of the U.S. Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals, attorneys for the Interactive Digital Software Association, which represents the video game industry, argued that a lower court ruling upholding St. Louis County's restrictions on game sales should be overturned as unconstitutional."
Yeah...
people don't realize parenthood is a JOB. Just because you don't answer to someone immediately doesn't mean you aren't supposed to be responsible. Parenthood is one of the most important jobs humans can ever have, and we take it so lightly. (I'm not saying parents should be like police; I mean that parents should take an active role in their child's development and think carefully about how to raise their children to be responsible.)
We hear horror stories about underprotective parents, overprotective parents, and underinvolved parents, but how many horror stories do we hear about overinvolved parents (unless, of course, there are side effects from their heavy involvement combining with other parenting problems that need addressing)?
And I know too many youth whose parents think that "learning to be friends with your teenage offspring" is as simple as loaning out the car keys...
--os
Why the fuck can't you keep an eye on your brat? Why the fuck do they have $70 to go to Funcoland to get a game? Why the fuck don't you tell the morons at Blockbuster not to rent 'M' games to your kid? Why do you have to fuck it up for everyone? You stupid damn whores! Just because you can't parent your kid is no reason to take it out on me.
Take some responsibility for a change.
Wow - hate women do we? Where is the Dad in all this? For as much as we bitch about how stuff like this is the parents responsibility, it's time to get over the fact that most parents are not that responsible when it comes to this kind of stuff. They are spending their time getting their kids off to school, feeding them, paying the bills, etc, etc, etc. How many older Aunts/Uncles/Grandparents do you know who purchase such things for the kids anyway? A lot of adults are very ignorant when it comes to violent electronic games, they simply are not aware.
Parents of 13+ year-olds frequently just drop them off at the mall. Have you ever met a teenager who wants to go shopping with their parents, and be seen with them in public? That is a rare thing indeed. I don't agree with laws being forced in this issue, but I do agree with clear labels and that stores should adopt their own age policies, like Walmart. As usual though, just like ignorant parents/relatives, their are many stores who really don't care what affect they have on kids as long as they get their money. This is a social, community and education problem - and those are usually tougher to solve.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree that no one should tell game publishers what they can or can't sell.
I agree that adults should not be prevented from buying it.
I agree that parents should have a right to restrict their children from material the parent finds objectionable, as much as possible.
I DON'T agree that Blockbuster should have to keep a list of individual minors and check it for parental permission before selling a game to a minor. That would never work because it's too much of a burden on the retailer and too easy to make a mistake. (What! You sold Johnny DOOM3? He's on your list! I'll sue!!!)
I DON'T agree that there should be legislation making it criminal to give an "M" rated game to a minor, or otherwise let them see it or play it, at least in a private home.
So, a law that doesn't allow "M" game sales to minors, but that doesn't criminalize "M" games use by minors, would be fine by me. Buy your kids DOOM3 if you think they're ready for it.
assert(birth_date<time-86400)
Even today, at 31, I'm nuts about games. I have two consoles, a gaming PC, and two laptops that play legacy games. I can't get enough. I've even written for Player2Player because I can't shut up about them.
I'm also a parent. Three children. 6/3/1 in age(s). My son (6) is nuts about games. I can't blame him. He's exposed to them daily. Loves playing Tony Hawk on the Xbox. Defeated Gauntlet for the PS1, all by himself. Is working on Jet Set Radio Future lately. Is going gonzo over Disney's ToonTown MMG. My daughter (3), is picking up on it. She can pilot a character in JSRF. Can't do much with it, but she'll spend 5 minutes making the avatar skate about.
I'm a gamer. I'm a parent. My kids are gamers. Games are art & entertainment on the same level as music, film, and television. They are not so passive, but they are there to fill idle time and give pleasure to the consumer. Not all games are for children. I screen what my kids see, and play adult games after they sleep. On the same level I don't let the kids listen to my Slayer CD's, or watch the latest Horror flick that my wife rented, or watch The Man Show with me.
As art, games should be protected. The government should not ban their creation and distribution, or sale. Like movies, games have ratings. Those should be enforced. Selling a minor GTA 3, Vice City should be no different than selling a minor the latest copy of Playboy. Or a beer. Or a pack of Camels.
There are games that are not meant for children. I have no problems with the government forcing retailers to enforce the ESRB ratings. When I buy a case of beer, I get carded. If I can't provide the card, I get denied the sale. If a kid brings GTA3 up to the register, he/she should be carded, and denied sale if not 18.
It's a good system. Extra laws are not needed to make things worse. Yeah, loopholes exist, but at least it is something, and it's rational. It's just like the movies, and there is no outcry that a few kids get by the ropes and into rated "R" films. It seems entirely logical to emulate that, even if I babble too much.
Grimwell - old, cranky, mean, obsessive
I'm a member of the EFF, and I get as rabid as the next /.er about censorship and such like, but I really do think that classification of certain commercial products as "not for minors without parental consent" is justified. That includes movies, books, pictures, alcohol, cigarettes. Children learn what is normal and acceptable through observing the world around them. Skewing this perception with graphic sexual violence, especially rewarding such behaviour in a game, should be restricted.
Getting back to the subject, investing millions of dollars in a commercial product that has tremendous psychological impact on an entire generation isn't "speech", and I'm surprised that the anti-coprorate mindset confuses the two.
The question is not whether certain industries have "free speech rights". They obviously do, but nobody is obliged to listen. The question is whether minors (for some definition of "minor") have "free consumption rights". Somebody who knows more about the constitution will have to reply on that. For instance, there are all sorts of activities and "consumptions" with minors in which we prohibit transactions. For instance, the sale of tobacco, alcohol, pornography, etc. Notice that this is NOT a restriction on the purchasing minor (the minor can still USE tobacco, alcohol, and pornography completely legally), it is a restriction on what can be SOLD, or in other words, regulation. I don't think "free speech" enters the discussion. Nobody's speech or expression is being abridged (although some would equate economic transactions with "speech"...i DO NOT).
This is still a legitimate question nonetheless. It still raises the issue of legitimate speech that minors would want to consume but be prohibited from consuming...matters relating to health of minors, politics regarding minors, etc. None of this I see being abridged, and none of this I expect to be present in video games or pornography. Then again, I played lots of video games and saw movies that probably would not be sold to me, and I don't think I'm any worse for it.
An interesting comparison would be Hollywood's intentional and flagrant marketing of sex and violence to minors. The video game industry thrives off a young audience, but I do not think they have done anything NEAR as repulsive as marketing and study groups with minors. The worst they have done is run commercials aimed towards minors (parents, you have control of the remote, and the wallet).
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
They should have the same rights as movie publishers.
If the game, as a central feature to its plot, has a ton of realistic violence, especially in an environment the person is likely to be found in normally (a city), then the game should be rated "R" or "PG-13" and restricted to being sold to minors of the appropiate age or with their guardians.
This isn't rocket science. These are laws developed to help parents give children some freedom they couldn't have otherwise. I know that I can send my kid to the movies and he isn't going to see certian things. If I knew the theater might let him in to a rated R movie, I wouldn't let him go without me. He desires that little bit of freedom, and the movie theater, by setting up a basic agreement with me, is providing me with that assurance.
Secondly, I work in the video rental business. It would be easy for video rental places to sell or rent to minors only with a guardian's previously given permission since the kid would then have his/her own card. It's not so easy with retail outlets. If a game shop wants to set up such a system, though, it would be trivial to deal with.
The upshot is that this does not degrade your freedom, unless you're a minor. If you are a minor, you have very little real freedom anyway. If you think all minors should be able to access this material on their whim without parental consent then you have very different opinions about raising children than many people who actually have experience in doing so.
-Adam
"stupid fucking soccer moms" no doubt gives a bit of satisfaction to type, but (rightly or wrongly) it immediately turns off the ears of the type of people who make these stupid laws in the first place.
as for the idea of law itself, you're absolutely right; it's idiotic and a pretty lousy idea. that said, the reason that notions like these arise in the first place is because it's a really easy way for politicians to show their breathless dedication to the cause of family values and high moral standards by coming out against something as pointless as a video game. makes for good headlines in the home district, and that's about it. doesn't really "protect" any child from any real harm, gives businesses (like blockbuster, say) the opportunity to again ape the same "family choices" and "parental control" non-arguments, so that poppa (or momma) can feel secure that *they* certainly had nothing to do with junior telling 'em to get bent or little tiffany piercing her... whatever.
as for your business with invoking "probabilites and curves" like some mantra (and the nonsense about the causes of black lung disease), please. wow, so you got a seat in ap math, can follow basic logic proofs and can read studies with the best of 'em. whoopee. claims of intellect fall apart when you come up with crap like "we are supposed to force society to be more repressive due to some people who shouldn't have been allowed to breed in the first place?" congratulations, you've discovered the roots of fascism. are you going to be on the commitee deciding which people get to breed and which do not? ready to order your brown shirt for the sterilization-now rally?
in the end though, i get the sense that you are really bright and motivated, and probably (probably) under the age of 18, hence your rage at (potentially) being denied access to vice city or nude bmx or whatever the hell this week's hot and outrageous waste of time is called. fair enough. but i advise, be patient. with luck, you will grow older, and be invited into all the groovy things you are being denied right now. drinking, nudie bars, driving, the draft...
you won't be a 15 year old jerk-off forever. believe me, i was one too.