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Fuel Cells Promised For Next Year

An anonymous reader writes "According to an article in today's New York Times, fuel cells for portable consumer electronic devices will start appearing next year. First for laptops, and later for smaller devices like cellphones. Among the interesting benefits of fuel cells over batteries is the ability to swap cells without having to power down the device." The article mentions the Toshiba cells demonstrated at CeBit, and -- no surprise -- Japan is likely to be the first market for these tiny fuel cells.

21 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. I sent this off to the author (re ethanol) by nweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is one other very important aspect of micro-fuel-cells which, as far as I know, no company has latched onto at least in public.

    40% ethanol/60% water is a significantly less efficient fuel than methanol, but it is realily available (although heavily taxed) almost everywhere in the US as Vodka, as well as being much cheaper as denatured alcohol.

    The probable ideal fuel cell would be able to operate on denatured ethanol (for lower cost) as well as straight vodka. It would be incredibly useful for one to be able to refill the fuel cell using something readily available from most airline beverage services and hotel minibars.

    Improvements to allow impurities (eg, Tequila, Whisky) would be even better, as now the fuel cell can operate on a wide variety of commonly available fuels. Allowing the cell to operate over a wider range of alcohol as well (20%-80% ethanol) would now allow even more variety in fuels as well as using more dense (and more efficient) fuels.

    In 10 years, my personal bet is that most portable fuel cells will be ethanol powered, specifically for the fuel-availability convenience.

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    1. Re:I sent this off to the author (re ethanol) by saskboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What happens to your laptop though when it is done guzzling the booze? Does it stumble home, and puke?

      Seriously though, what happens to the elements in the liquid that aren't Hydrogen? Is it drained, or evaporated?

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    2. Re:I sent this off to the author (re ethanol) by gmplague · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Wow, that's a great theory, except what would those people under 21 in the US to refuel. "Yeah, I need some vodka, I SWEAR it's for my laptop." Sure, it's ok to sell denatured ethanol at computer stores, etc. But people under 21 would 1) have to wait until the fuel cells can handle these impurities, and 2) have to go out of their way to buy over-priced fuel for their laptops. Doesn't make much sense to me.

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    3. Re:I sent this off to the author (re ethanol) by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do you know how espensive that would be even if you got 50 miles to the gallon of whisky?

  2. Re:First Post brought to you by... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It isn't necessairly vaporware this time... Toshiba has actually demoed a fuel cell laptop already at CeBit.

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  3. I want one that runs on odorized propane. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I want a fuel cell that runs on odorized propane. About 1/2 to 3 kilowatts average, with the model in the 1/2 to 1 kilowatt range fitting in about a cubic foot. Either water or air cooled is OK.

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  4. Sodium Borohydride to the rescue by sssmashy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hydrogen is the obvious fuel of choice for portable fuel cells - it packs more energy than any other (non-nuclear) fuel into a given amount of mass.

    The problem is finding a safe and efficient mechanism to transport the hydrogen. A fuel cell powered by a canister of highly compressed hydrogen gas could have the destructive power of a grenade if ignited... not something you'd want sitting next to you on a plane or subway. Meanwhile, the logistics of transporting liquid hydrogen (which must be kept cool at cryogenic temperatures) are such that it will probably never be used in portable fuel cells.

    Considering how important viable hydrogen storage is to our future economy, it's amazing how few research dollars have been directed at the problem. One possible solution is sodium borohydride in an aqueous solution. Hydrogen is released when the NaBH4(aq) is passed through a catalyst. The solution is completely stable and nontoxic at room temperature, yet stores more hydrogen per liter than liquid H2.

    1. Re:Sodium Borohydride to the rescue by heliosnorf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Assuming that we use hydrogen, this pretty much guarantees that it would come in the form of disposable cartridges. If you have to use a new cartridge every 10 hours or so, this seems like it would generate a fair amount of waste. Imagine millions of people throwing their cartridges out every few days.

      Therefore, it seems that some sort of recycling program would have to be initiated in order to use hydrogen cartridges. Perhaps this is a good reason to stick with liquid fuels for laptops - assuming that they would not have to be compressed and that the cartridges could be user-refilled.

      --

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    2. Re:Sodium Borohydride to the rescue by Natalie's+Hot+Grits · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The molecular structure of the liquid he mentions is such that when packed into a liquid, it takes up less volume than liquid hydrogen. Its like the puzzel pieces fit together more nicely.

      I do not know if this particular compound he mentioned is like this, and I'm not a chemist. But I remember in chemistry class we mixed 1/2 cup rubbing alcohol with 1/2 cup some other liquid, and out came ~3/4 cup liquid, not a full cup like expected. The reason for this is as I have described above.

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    3. Re:Sodium Borohydride to the rescue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Sodium borohydride stores more hydrogen per liter because it is more dense than pure hydrogen. It is because of the way that Sodium Borohydride packs in the liquid state. Hyrdogen molecules are unable to pack as well, because they are non-polar and therefore cannot attract one another so that they can pack into a regular pattern...

  5. Is this really a good thing? by sigmaIII · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lets just hope that "the fuel" doesn't go the way of printer ink, highly over priced just for the tech market and warrently invalidating if you use a generic product.

  6. This is great - but... by falsified · · Score: 2, Interesting
    But we won't really see the effects of this new technology until all battery-operated products are replaced with the fuel cell products. Would consumers really want to go through the added expense? Batteries, for the most part, are reasonably priced, and fuel cells aren't exactly perfect. I know I would want to have a fuel cell-powered x, but who else does?

    I also wonder if the battery industry might start lobbying Congress like the oil/auto industries do. Or maybe they'll be smart and get in on the innovation themselves. Is there less profit to be made in fuel cells? You don't have to replace them often, which means, as a producer, you don't sell as many.

    --
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  7. Why do new technologies emerge East to West? by EpsilonFour · · Score: 5, Interesting
    All new technologies seem to originate in Japan, appear simultanously or shortly thereafter in Europe, and then after up to a decade finally make it to the US.

    And why do a lot of people in the US seem to think we are the vanguard of scientific research and development. Sure, some things apear first but many, but as I said many things are developed elsewhere first.

    Is it regulation, funding (or lack of), or is the US not a good testbed for new technologies? Or is it all of them? I can see many madical things being developed or used overseas because of FDA regulations, and common sense tells me the average American needs help turning on a computer, let alone figuring out one of those newfangled (read: oldfangled :]) 3-G cell phones.

    1. Re:Why do new technologies emerge East to West? by praksys · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All new technologies seem to originate in Japan, appear simultanously or shortly thereafter in Europe, and then after up to a decade finally make it to the US. And why do a lot of people in the US seem to think we are the vanguard of scientific research and development.

      Several factors are at work.

      One is just the effect of anecdotal evidence. If you already suspect that technology is moving faster in other places then you will notice stories that confirm your belief, and discount stories that dis-confirm your belief. If you want to gret real evidence one way or the other then you need to look at the relevant statistics on R&D expenditure, and patent applications (both of which show the US way out in front on basic research, and product development).

      Another factor is the difference in markets. Japan has a very high proportion of early adopters, so new technologies tend to do far better in Japan, and have a much better chance of getting established there, than anywhere else. I don't know whether the same can be said for Europe. In any case, this is a matter of where technolgies first go to market, not a matter of where they get developed, or whether the initial research was done.

      A third factor may just be the particular market you are looking at. Japanese companies dominate the consumer electronics market, so if you are looking at consumer electronics to judge the pace of technological development then of course Japan will appear to be leading. If you look at other technology markets then the picture looks quite different.

    2. Re:Why do new technologies emerge East to West? by zulux · · Score: 2, Interesting

      All new technologies seem to originate in Japan, appear simultanously or shortly thereafter in Europe, and then after up to a decade finally make it to the US.

      Some technologies apear this way while other technologies/toys appear here first:

      VS Japan, we get the following first

      Medical drugs - AIDS, cancer and Biotech drugs
      Most high-tech mountain climbing gear - stoves, tents, ski's
      Recreational drugs - Crack, cheap Meth.
      Apple computers.
      SGI computers.
      Corvettes.
      Cadillacs.
      New procedures for making hot chicks - impants, botox, collegin injections.
      High Tech Weapons - SDI, Tanks, Fighters, Subs
      New Programing Languages - Pearl, C++, Emacs Lisp.
      Large Budget Movies - Armegeddon, Spiderman, LOTR

      Just to name a few things.

      (And yes, I do wish we'd get cool Japanese laptops here for a good price)

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    3. Re:Why do new technologies emerge East to West? by Guppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Medical drugs - AIDS, cancer and Biotech drugs"

      Actually, this is not entirely true. While the US is the leader in medical R&D, many drugs are released overseas first -- some recent examples include the cancer drug Iressa and the erectile dysfunction drug Levitra. Clinical trials are cheaper overseas, and recruitment of patients is often easier. Plus, most countries are not as litigious than the US, so companies can test market a drug with less financial risk.

      A final reason is that the FDA has a well-earned reputation for being the most conservative medical regulatory agency in the world. This is not necessary a bad thing -- the FDA rejected thalidomide when it was widely approved elsewhere. The handful of US cases occured in women who either imported the drug or took it while overseas.

      Still, the US is where every drug company wants to be, as it is the largest pharmaceutical market in the world.

  8. "B" size cells? by smithmc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And as for standards...if they're going to replace As Cs and Ds, sure.

    Total non sequitur, but... whatever happened to "B" cells? Was there ever such a thing?

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  9. horsepower wars by zogger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    --the "state of the art" now in mobile computing reminds me of that late 60's horsepower wars. There's the same basic mistake. Instead of making the engine more efficient, they basically increased the displacement to ridiculous levels. sure they started having fuel injection, but that's about it, it was just "bigger", less efficient, necessitating "more fuel" to accomplish the same tasks of basically transportation.

    The better bet (maybe, this is my general question really) right now with fuel cells versus batteries is actually back to where the power is needed and what for and why exactly. Bigger and bigger chips (engine displacement) using more and power, more and more RAM needed, necesitated by apps that really are just huge, just humongous. How much of it is really necessary as opposed to "because we can" and it's easier to code to that inefficient set of standards?

    Perhaps-just a thought, but perhaps, if there was a revolution on coding going back to small,mean fast and efficient, then maybe we wouldn't need bigger and bigger chips and more RAM to run everything? And the batteries that exist now would work adequately, last longer, not wear out as quick and we wouldn't have this "computer energy problem" as much? Is there a legit link between code bloat and energy useage that could be addressed? If programs were really written with "energy conservation" in mind, would this help? I dunno but I got a suspicion that coders knowing that the CPUs are bigger and faster and that there's a lot more RAM avaialable might make them skip little bits of code that would improve efficiency, and thereby borking energy conservation.

    I don't know, not a coder, but I am more or less doing the same general computing stuff I did years ago, but it takes "more" of everything hardware-wise and including more electricity to do this stuff. The real only change I can see is occassionaly I look at some streaming video, but besides that it's the same, I browse, email, listen to the net radio, do IRC and etc, same stuff I did years ago, but now I need a bigger everything to do this. I know there's any number of immediate exceptions to the rule now someone can drop, 'I run super 4-d magnum quantum compiler, I need all I can get' and etc, that ain't my point. Does code bloat lead to hardware bloat that causes code bloat and back and forth that is responsible for batteries falling so far behind we have to screw around with fuel cells?

  10. fuel cells, not sure i like it yet... by ptorrone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    right now i take my segway to work, passing a few gas stations which one day might be hydrogen stations. when i get to work, i plug my laptop in which gets 4-5 hours of battery life (at least). i also plug my segway in. this cuts out a middle man, no additional things to buy, no pumping, no replacement cells. battery life will get better as it always does. my other laptop, a tablet pc gets like 6 hours of juice. i like being able to be more "free" this way. power plants get better over time, the pollution they might cause is in one controlled area. to charge my ht or laptop it's pennies, literally. it sounds like fuels cells are good for finding new $ for a market that is getting it's power from the existing infrastructure.

  11. Re:Fuel Cells for telecommunications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    With corporate buyouts and changes it is unclear when this will be out, but Coleman was to offer this industrial fuel cell delivering 1Kw for about $5000: http://www.airgen.com/airgenindustrial.shtml

    The entire system was bought out by Ballard who is notoriously slow to deliver anything; maybe this will be an exception: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030219/192127_1.html

    While most slashdot posters appear to be luddites, a good source of info on fuelcells is: http://www.h2fc.com/news.html
    Just remember to wear your hip waders so you don't get any marketing bullshit on you while you are finding the real information.

  12. Re:Heat, cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    But lithium ion laptop batteries only last approximately one year of regular use, and less for the average consumer that does not take proper care of the battery.

    If fuel cells cost less than a dollar or two per recharge, it would cost less than batteries, and offer much better convenience (if you're going on a long trip, just stock up on 20 fuel cartridges and you're set- no worrying about finding a place t recharge/extra batteries/ac adaptors, etc)