Slashdot Mirror


A New Approach to Teaching Science

Gallenod writes "The Washington Post has an article on Joy Hakim, an author trying to re-write junior-high science textbooks to make them more readable. There are some interesting observations on how traditional textbook publishing houses control pretty much everything children read in school and her difficulties in challenging the status quo. However, she's already succeeded with an award-winning history textbook series, so maybe she'll rack up another win here."

57 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. I want by flewp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    textbooks that are written kind of like A Brief History of Time or other such books. Of course, they'd need to have to be more indepth and whatnot, but if ideas and concepts were introduced in a more entertaining and inviting way, people would be more interested in learning the details. I did not read the article btw, I don't feel like registering.

    --
    WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
  2. so who's stopping you future auhtorities by guest12 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    post your manuscripts on the web. at least one will become popular.

  3. Students. by Daleks · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about we take a new approach to having students actually give a rat's ass about science or learning in general? The problem isn't textbooks or any 'style' of teaching. It's students who come to school who simply don't care. Why is there the steroetype about smart asian kids? It's because societies like those in South Korea and India place a high value on intelligence and education, ours (America) doesn't.

    1. Re:Students. by myc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      wow. mod up parent, couldn't have said it better myself. There is a serious problem in this country where "being smart" is looked down upon, especially at the junior high-high school level.

      Having said that, I think that while a large part of the problem lies with the student's attitudes, an equally large part of the problem also lies with the curriculum. US High school textbooks are, in general woefully inadequate when compared to science textbooks from other developed nations. The SAT exam, particularly the portions pertaining to math and logic, are usually at a junior high level in most Asian countries, for instance (from where I hail from). Its hard for students to take their studies seriously when they are not learning anything serious. JMHO.

      --
      NO CARRIER
    2. Re:Students. by Quantum+Skyline · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent up. I couldn't have said it better myself.

      There is too much emphasis on trying to make science "hip" and "cool" and to a certain extent, "l33t". This seems to work for a bit but ensures a kid's attention span is short.

      Want kids to do better in school? Turn off the TV. Do homework as a family. Don't buy another console (I know a few people who have a few consoles.) Teachers need to care too. And lets face it, most role models for kids (Britney Spears, almost any rapper) suck as role models. All they really portray is that you can make money dropping out of school or almost never going. To put it simply, kill the distractions. Explain in no uncertain terms that you need to care in school in order to do something in life.

      Best influence on my life is my father. He taught me to do math at a grade 1 level when I was in junior kindergarten, and moved up. He encouraged me to do math beyond his comprehension and offered to help, even if he didn't know what an integral is.

      That's what Western (not just American) families need - a return to the fundamentals instead of a focus on becoming the next American Idol.

    3. Re:Students. by km790816 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe it's because our system treats children as something to be processed and measured.

      "We don't care if you really learn this as long as you can remember it long enough to pass a standardized test that really doesn't measure what you've really gained."

      Students share some of the blame. Parents, goverment, textbook publishers, and teachers are also to blame.

      A great teacher can make almost anyone want to learn, but a shitty teacher can suck the motivation out of almost anyone.

    4. Re:Students. by machine+of+god · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Why is there the steroetype about smart asian kids?

      I always thought it was because only the smartest got to come here.

    5. Re:Students. by mlknowle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bullshit.

      All or most of the asian kids around you are smart and dedicated? Wow! But do you think that that is a representative sample of Asians, or some Asians who are particularly smart and dedicated happen to have left their country to study abroad? Groups self select; you don't seem like a very bright person, but at the highest levels everyone is smart. The reason the smartest people around you are Asians is because American's who are smarter than you have had more opportunity to go elsewhere.

      If you look at world-wide test scores, you'll see that America ranks well down the list; why? Because America educates (and therefore tests) a much larger range of the bell curve than many other countries do. For this reason, our 'average' score is indeed lower, but if you did total score divided by the entire (not just test taking) population, you would see different results.

    6. Re:Students. by arvindn · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'm from India. I've got a couple of observations.

      You're right about the problem not being with textbooks. The textbooks here are as dull if not duller than anywhere else. But smart is sexy over here. There's a lot of motivation for students to learn. And there's the economic incentive, too. Very hard to get a job that pays enough.

      That's not the whole picture, though. There are government schools and private schools. What I said above goes for the private schools. In the government schools kids go there because they have to.

      Then why the stereotype about smart Asian kids? Simple. The smarter kids get a job/fellowship in the U.S and migrate there, which is the only section you see.

    7. Re:Students. by sconeu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      High school textbooks are, in general woefully inadequate when compared to science textbooks from other developed nations

      See Feynman's rant from "What do you care what other people think?"

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    8. Re:Students. by Rinikusu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Umm.. no?

      I mean, I'm 1st generation native born Asian-American. My mother is Korean, my father is Native American, but that's besides the point. The point is that every other half/whole korean kid I know with a Korean mother is in fear of our lives about our grades in school. If I came home with anything below a B, I would get beaten within an inch of my life. My mom cared about my grades, it reflected upon her. Through the threat of beatings, I then cared about my grades. Granted, I got straight A's until the 10th grade, but the idea is still there: Get beat, get good grades..

      Um, no wait that's not it...

      When parents give a shit about their kids and what they learn in school, then the kids tend to do better, especially if the parents take an active role in their education. You don't necessarily have to beat them up (Hey, I fucking turned out great, and I'll beat the shit out of anyone that says otherwise), but knowing how to provide incentives and make education, well, worth learning, makes a ton of difference.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    9. Re:Students. by sasami · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You aren't seriously asserting that the "bright Asian kid" phenomenon is composed of study abroad students?

      Here in suburban Massachusetts, I'd quickly guess about 70% of the Chinese high school population was born here. Most of the rest moved here before they were 10. And very few are aliens, i.e., they are residents or citizens. In some regions, such as southern California, there are towns populated entirely by, ahem, Chinese-Americans.

      Incidentally, as a "bright Asian kid" myself, I'm not a fan of the effect. It is a result of upbringing. But it's rooted in the rote-focused schooling that our parents came out of, and is ineffective in a good college setting.

      ---
      Dum de dum.

      --
      Freedom is not the license to do what we like, it is the power to do what we ought.
    10. Re:Students. by hazem · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A great teacher can make almost anyone want to learn, but a shitty teacher can suck the motivation out of almost anyone.

      Yes, and the teachers' unions prevent you from firing the shitty teacher, and prevent you from paying the great teacher what they're worth.

      This, IMHO, is one of the greatest problems in education. You can't reward those teachers who excel and do a good job, and you can't punish those who don't - everyone's the same. So, what motivation is there to improve? What if you're that shitty teacher? Why should you improve when you get paid just as much as that great teacher over there?

  4. Science books by zzxc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was looking at a junior high science book recently. Everything seemed very dumbed down already. It was basically memory - not enough emphasis was placed on understanding concepts. Making them easier to read does not solve the real problem of students not understanding concepts.

  5. Hope it works by WatertonMan · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I hope she does a good job. I can't speak having never seen her texts. The one big problem most science and math textbooks have is that they tend to teach subtly wrong things. The so called "New Math" movement from when I was a kid was a great example. The analogies and examples were often misleading and arose out of a misunderstanding of set theory or how scientists actually utilize mathematics.

    It seems like every couple of years we get a new set of "reforms." Every time I check out the textbooks they are almost uniformly horrible. The biggest error (other than teaching incorrect notions) is that they push too general an idea rather than trying to give kids the skills and critical thinking. I guess its time for an other round. . .

  6. Re:A Kinesthetic Approach by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To a large degree, I think there's a lot of truth here. When I was doing my student teaching, they called me Mr. Explosion (due to an unfortunate science demonstration). I suspect they remembered far more about the strange demonstrations than what was read in the textbook.

    Keep in mind that different kids learn in different ways. Textbooks should just be one of the several methods in which information is passed along. Open discussion, reading, projects, and even the ubitiquous video all have their places.

  7. It supposed to be FACTs, not a story! by bluGill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll agree that a simple reading of a science text book is boring. However you shouldn't be reading it like some novel. Your read it to learn about science. So you skim a couple pages, then get the components and mix up an expiriment.

    Sure you con't do every experiment to learn about it, but you need a grounding first. (Anyone care to tell me how to prove H has 1 electron, 1 proton, and no neutrons, without equipement byond what a science classrom could afford) Sure the story of Tesla and Ben Franklin might be more interesting, but their bio will not help you understand electrisity. Doing expiriemtns will. Reading about Ohm's law, and the other basics of the Science will.

    Science is about how and why things work, and the process of finding out. Science is not about enertainment, other than the enertainment of a hands on expiriemnt, or hands on solving some difficult math. (it is exciting to solve a complex math problem after spending several full days thinking about it, most people have never experienced it though)

    I'm not completely against these books. If they really help teach science great. However the joke about modern teaching where it doesn't matter if the kid says 2+2=2, so long as the kid tried hard the kid gets all the points is a concern. Science is fun, but a new textbook is not the answer. The answer is in teachers who understand science (not teaching, there is a BIG difference, though understanding teaching is important too) and can show the kids how to do it. Somehow, I'm not a teacher because I can't do it.

    1. Re:It supposed to be FACTs, not a story! by KnowledgeFreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get what your saying, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      I know that I have learned, and retained for many years, factoids that were surrounded by context and additional meaning. These are facts that i definitly wouldn't remember otherwise considering that i never use them. I still remember that summation equation because of the story that my high school math teacher told us, about how a the guy (i forget his name) figured it out because, as he was acting up in grade school, the teacher told him to add all the numbers from 1 to 100 (keep him busy). He came back in 5 minutes with the answer because he had figured out that
      100 + 99 + 98 + 97...
      1 + 2 + 3....
      all the additions vertically are 101. multiply that by 100 and divide by 2 and you have the answer.
      We know A LOT more today about cognitive psychology and what is physically going on in our brains when we learn. We know that by giving facts (propositions) context they are able to be better recalled and remain in our memories for longer periods. We CAN apply this to scientific learning. Ironically enough, to ignore that is to ignore what we are learning through science.

      -Pete

    2. Re:It supposed to be FACTs, not a story! by sstory · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's really not supposed to be FACTS. Science education is not primarily concerned with transmitting facts. Science is both a structure and a method. The great structures in science are the theories. Gravity. Atoms. Thermo. Maxwell's eqns. Relativity. etc. Facts are merely pieces of data used to test theory. The method, the process of beginning with a blank slate, collecting evidence, forming theory, testing extensions of the theory against evidence, is the embodiment of rationalism itself. It's the unique tool for generating knowledge. That, is what science education is about.

  8. NO! by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ok, this is something I am really sick and tired of hearing... Are you a teacher?

    I just spoke w/a group of professors who complained that students aren't willing to learn anymore...

    1. School is forced (especially college, which has become a *necessary* extension of High School).

    2. Teachers teach passively yet expect students to be active learners. Putting an overhead on the screen or a PPT presentation DOES NOT COUNT as active teaching. It causes people to become uninterested and bored.

    Once teachers start teaching actively, students will probably learn actively. Until that time, it is just as much the fault of the educators.

    1. Re:NO! by Goldsmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just finished teaching a electronics lab class which was *very* active. My students appreciated the effort I went through in class to get them to understand the material, and I would say that many of them took a more active approach to learning due to it.

      That's not to say there weren't problems. There were two things the students had to do before lab. The first was to read the lab for the week, the second was to submit some online answers to selected prelab questions. I would say 75% of my students did the prelab questions while about 50% read the lab. This led to horrible scores on the quizzes at the beggining of the lab period (which were based on the other prelab questions).

      I agree completely that is the job of the educator to get the students interested in a subject, but as an educator, it is very, very frustrating to see the students put in a fraction of the minimal amount of work needed for a class.

      The students were fine while I there to encourage them and keep them from getting frustrated. There were many students who were genuinely interested in applications of the circuits we were making, but they were interested in the applications, not the circuits. They wanted to skip the basics and jump strait into MEMS and superconductors and things like that.

      I would often get complaints about equipment being broken only to walk over and see that their scale was set improperly, or that a wire was unplugged. Those things were ok the first few weeks of class, but to not check those things after 8 weeks is not a good sign.

      In my opinion, there were some students there that should think long and hard on whether they should be studing physics or electrical engineering. I think that's the root of the problem. Too many people try to fit themselves into a field that they think they like, only to find that they have no aptitude for it, or that the nuts and bolts of the field aren't interesting to them.

      That all said, I did have some really awesome students who were a pleasure to teach. I am looking foward to teaching the next lab in the series next quarter.

    2. Re:NO! by Daleks · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ok, this is something I am really sick and tired of hearing... Are you a teacher?

      Nope. I was a TA in college though.

      I just spoke w/a group of professors who complained that students aren't willing to learn anymore...

      There is always going to be some degree of animosity between students and teachers. There will always be some students who say soandso is a horrible teacher, and there will always be some teachers who say their students are spoiled brats. Teachers share some of the blame, but if you've recently seen the behavior of classrooms firsthand, you'd be appalled.

      1. School is forced (especially college, which has become a *necessary* extension of High School).

      What does this have to do with anything? Should children be allowed to sit at home all day and play video games because they think Math is hard? Also, you can go to a trade school after high school and get a job that way. If you don't like the job you get, well, then you should've gone to college.

      You can try to say that schools don't teach you anything that you'll use in the 'real' world, but that simply isn't true. Now more than ever high schools offer applied programs. Auto repair, programming, and hell probably even carpentry if you ask your wood shop teacher nicely. Last June I was offered a position to teach at a vocational school that had a program for high school students to learn programming as it applied to game development. This wasn't for a rich and privaleged school either.

      2. Teachers teach passively yet expect students to be active learners. Putting an overhead on the screen or a PPT presentation DOES NOT COUNT as active teaching.

      Even if a teacher does his or her job poorly, this doesn't mean a student is completely absolved from having to understand the coursework. If a teacher gives a poor lecture about WW2, does that mean the student gets to blame the teacher for his or her lack of understanding? No. While a teacher does play a central role in a course, it is still the responsibility of the student to make every effort to learn. With a proper respect for knowledge a student will understand the material is more important than judging the teacher or even the grade they receive. This isn't to say that grades are irrelevant, but that a personal understanding of the value of knowledge is more important than having a high GPA. I'm not advocating throwing grades out the window. I'm advocating the driving force in the learning process for a student should be knowledge, not letters on a report card or classroom dynamics.

      With that said, I agree that a bad teacher will obviously have a negative effect on the learning process. Teachers should be held accountable for their actions. I've had my share of bad teachers, but I realized that the classes were about me, not them. I understood that it was my future at stake, not theirs.

      It causes people to become uninterested and bored.

      This is something I hear all the time, and sorry, I just don't buy it. If a student is unmotivated to take an active role in their own future, then it is their own fault. A teacher shouldn't be required to turn Physics into song and dance to get the student's attention. School is hard and not always fun. More is at stake for the student than for the teacher. School for a teacher is their profession. School for a student is their entire future.

      Once teachers start teaching actively, students will probably learn actively. Until that time, it is just as much the fault of the educators.

      We obviously disagree on the distribution of 'blame' students and teachers share in the current educational system. Granted there are many, many bad teachers out there, but the students need to understand how to look beyond that. School is about learning new ideas, not a pissing contest with a teacher that supposedly has it out for you.

    3. Re:NO! by ArmyOfFun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In some student's eyes it is forced, I agree. But on a global stage, America is one of very few countries where any student (k-12) can go to school for free.

      We don't treat it like a privilege, but we should, that was my argument.

    4. Re:NO! by floydden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      School IS forced, and while children don't need to sit home and play video games, the kind of atmosphere that I have seen at my children's school reflects the hardline attitude that you seem to have. One day I went in during so called "free" time (before school) the kids were lined up sitting against a wall with some Hitler wannabe walking back and forth with a whistle and jumping on anyone that so much as talked. These kids weren't allowed to go outside or anything but sit there. With this kind of garbage to start the day, I really can't blame any kid for not wanting to cooperate in anyway with thier jailors.
      With this kind of uphill battle, I imaging that only the very best teachers have even a small chance to get through to more than a very small fraction of the students. I am not blaming the teachers, but the administrators. You are absolutely right school is SUPPOSED to be about learning, and when and if it becomes a pleasant place to be, then our kids might stand a chance

  9. Re:Lets dumb down the schools some more! by Skyshadow · · Score: 4, Insightful
    No offense, but if your kid can't write or read very well by the third grade, isn't that mostly your fault?

    You obviously didn't glance at the article or anything, 'cause if you had you'd probably understand that the idea is to overhaul these books which were essentially designed Way Back When (and subsequently only updated) to reflect a more modern understanding of how to effectively impart information to children -- we know that they don't learn like adults do, so it's backwards to use instruments which assume that they do.

    For example: It's hard to dispute that kids or a certain age absorb more from a narrative than from being presented with a list of facts to absorb. So, what possible objection could you have to using a narrative to impart these lessons? When your kid was learning the alphabet, didn't you teach her the song version? Or did you insist that the A-B-C song is a lightweight new-agey tool for stupid children and force her to recite it without singing? No ROY G BIV or other memory aids for her, no sir....

    Anyhow, if there's a better way to impart information, I'm all for it. If you're not, well, you're an idiot. And read the fucking article next time.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  10. Re:A complaint about textbooks... by Jonathan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is it just me, or is an almost-exclusive focus on facts a good thing for textbooks of any sort?

    The point is an anecdote or two livens things up. Would any one remember who discovered of the structure of benzine or how if they hadn't heard about Kekulé's weird dream of a snake eating its own tail? (And yes, I know most cynical chemists think that Kekulé was just BS-ing about the dream -- that's not the point)

  11. More readable? Why? by targo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I look at my dad's old math textbooks, they are usually much dryer and "harder" to read than most of today's textbooks, which are loaded with colorful pictures and silly examples to make them more "child-friendly" instead of being concise and to-the-point.
    As a result, it is very hard to find the point from all the fluff-talk, and next to impossible to create a good systematic understanding of the topic. With these books, children don't take science seriously, and the result is much worse.
    In the recent 50 years or so, there's a very visible trend where textbooks get prettier, topics get more lightweight, school gets to be more "fun" instead of education, and the result (people's knowledge of science) gets worse and worse.
    We need to finally understand that we can't teach more/better by making the books easier and easier.

  12. Open source/content text books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    damnit already, quit allowing the state government dictate what textbooks to buy each year.

    I am sure that many many lawmakers would like to contract out their printing of free open content books instead of paying $10 - $15 each for whatever the book publishers want to sell.

    I think D-Day, Omaha Beach, and WW2 deserver more than 3 pages in a US history text book.

    Seneca Falls women's rights meeting does not deserve the 15 or so mentions it gets in US history books. I would suggest something a little more significant like how everybody gets their rights by being alive and not from a king or government as expressed in the Declaration of Independence.

  13. Re:Different at the College Level...Why? by JoeBuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Politics. At the college level, individual professors decide what books to assign; in many cases if there isn't a decent text, the professor has a strong incentive (the tenure system, royalties, reputation, etc) to write his/her own. For K-12, teachers have no such power; committees make the decisions, and it's far worse if the book offends someone than if it is merely boring. So, as a result, K-12 texts are almost always boring.

  14. ... for committees. by Squeamish+Ossifrage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suspect that college-level textbooks don't get written by committee for several reasons, but here's my main guess: They're not being written for a committee, either.

    Since an individual professor selects the text for his or her course, the texts don't have to be written to satisfy the varied and mutually contradictory demands of an approval committee. That, and most of my textbooks are on a narrower subject area than "Science."

  15. not the problem by NixterAg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While the intent of the subject in the article is noble, it's just another example of educators trying to treat the symptoms and not the sickness. Kids aren't learning science (as well as pretty much every other subject) and the readability of science textbooks have almost nothing to do with it. The problem facing schools today is a cultural problem, not a logistical problem. We keep lowering the bar, instilling some idiotic postmodern philosophy of entitlement into kids who will one day grow into the idiotic adults everyone expects them to be, instead of raising the bar and working kids harder. Can't cut the mustard? You should be embarrassed. Instead, parents blame teachers for their own parental failures and everyone is hunky dory, as long as there is someone to blame. Teachers get beat down by this and feel like nothing they do helps so they quit too, robbing other children of the education provided by Uncle Sam.

    It's funny. I graduated high school in '97 and have since gotten a BS in comp sci and I look back and realize my favorite teachers are the ones that made me bust ass. I couldn't stand them when I was under their totalitarian rule but I learned whether I liked it or not. Sure, I had plenty of teachers whose classes were a joke. Nothing was expected of me and so I did as little as I could get away with...what else would a teenager do? I despise those teachers now, as I realize that their insistence on being my friend and not working hard was a disservice to me.

    There's plenty of blame to go around, whether it be lazy teachers, apathetic parents, cowardly administrators, or rowdy kids, but instead we pour more and more money into facilities, books, technology, or some other taxpayer funded red herring. Kids of the ages mentioned in the article...junior high age...aren't self-motivated. Less than 1% of kids that age have the self-motivation to pursue knowledge so you have to cram it down the little SOBs throats. Eventually, you'll find that the majority of them will then develop a craving for it and your work as a teacher is done.

    It's the exact same way with behavior. You don't ask a child to behave, you have to make them behave. If parents would get over their little ego trip of how high and mighty their children are and treat them like the subordinates they are, this wouldn't be a problem. God forbid we hurt poor little Johnny's self esteem though.

  16. Re:Rewriting? by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Insightful
    They're rewriting history books? Dammit, now I'll have to re-learn all sorts of things, like who won World War II!

    Disclaimer: IAAH (I am a Historian).

    There isn't a "right" way to view history; it's simplistic to think that there is. History is always necessarily the interpretation of data through our modern worldview and understanding, and as such it's appropriate to constantly reevaluate what we know of history.

    Of course, there are dates and places and people in history, but the "hard facts" aren't generally important. Just knowing *what* happened doesn't really buy you anything -- it's just trivia. The *why* is what really counts, what really leads us to some understanding of history, and that's rightly always open to interpretation.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  17. Continuation of long trend by f97tosc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This book seems to fit neatly in a bigger trend.

    Textbooks are becoming more and more readable and accessible, typically somewhat at the expense of sophistication.

    This is good news for many of those who struggle in school (with science in this case). It is bad news for many talented kids that need challenges and prefer abstractions over colorful examples.

    My solution? Realize that all kids are not made alike, and develop a few different books with different methodologies covering the same material. Test the kids for apptitude as well as prefered learning method and give them the book that suits them best.

    Tor

  18. This is really worrying by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This a part of a worrying trend in writing books and movies on complicated subject matters in more accessible way.

    It is not just science textbooks, i have noticed the same trend in documentaries and educational movies.

    Well needless to say it is really annoying. First of all the proponents of this new trend all have two things in common - they think their audience is stupid, and they thing the audience does not want to know about the subject matter.

    So basicly they do not teach about the subject matter at all. They teach some details that are some how connected to the subject matter, they are really easy to understand, but do not help the understanding of the subject matter at all. Usually those details are about people, somehow connected to the subject matter. That is because the writers in their belief that their readers are stupid, think the readers would be much more interested reading about people's lives (that of course are written in a way to be similar to the life of the average reader) than history, or science or whatever the subject matter is.

    The quote from that woman's textbook serves the perfect example. It talks about how albert einstein was briliant, yet he hated doing homework ... i am sure every high school student will feel good reading about that. I am also sure they will not learn any physics by reading about that.

    The quote from the older text, teaches actual physics. It is perfect it explains an aspect of the theory of relativity in a way that a student, that is too young to be able to learn it, can at least learn how it fits in the general field of physics, and how it applies in the real world. Thus the student will be able to learn classical physics without worrying that he/she is not learning relativity.

    The new and improved physics passage leaves the student with no knowledge of physics whatsoever. Now parents and teachers may be happy that the student has more fun reading this passage and maybe even remembers it better, but they are fooling themselves, the kid is not learning any physics.

    Maybe passages like this have a place as background sidenotes. But in no way should they replace actual physics. And it seems to me that in that woman's books they do.

  19. Re:A complaint about textbooks... by JoeBuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Facts aren't the whole story of science; you find this out if you work with grad students at a good research university. At some point in graduate school, the student is expected to make a transition between being an excellent test-taker to being able to produce something new, and many alleged-brilliant students don't successfully make the transition (though they usually successfully get out with master's degrees, and no, this is not a slam against people whose highest degree is MS). They're great at doing algebraic manipulation to get the homework right, and they have excellent memories, but they don't really grasp how things fit together. They are the ones who always try to get the TAs to give them enough hints to turn the word problem into an equation, so that they can get the answer without understanding the concept. They always got ahead by spitting back the answers the prof wanted, and have trouble shifting to finding out things that the prof does not know, or evaluating what is likely to be true when the question is unsettled.

    It's more important for students to understand the scientific method and critical thinking than to just memorize a lot of apparently unrelated facts.

  20. Homeschooling: We love the history books. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    We homeschool our two (9/12) kids. (Well, my wife does most of the work). We have her history books and they are very, very good. So much of history is dry facts. These books have lots of information about the "ground truth" about what it was like at the time.

    The science books ought to be really good.

    -- ac at home

  21. Re:Homeschooling: We love the history books. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's not so much 'ground truth' as it is someones creative interpretation of the times.

    For instance, the french have a different view of Napoleon than the one in my history texts. And I've never seen an american textbook make any mention of the war of 1812.

    History should be dry facts, because everything else is biased.

  22. Re:James Burke by Fritz+Benwalla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Except...

    If you've read James Burke's columns in Scientific American you realize that he is an insightful *television* writer. That's his medium. In contrast his written columns are an incoherent jumble of odd organization, asides, and unresolved thoughts. You really need to read them three or four times to figure out what he's trying to get across.

    Understand, I love his television programs, but he's a perfect example of how interesting, readable prose is an art in itself. Her skills are not about just waking up in the morning and saying "Hey, how about taking an historical approach," but also being able to organize it, edit it, and write it in such a way that it slots into kids' brains and stays there.

    --------

    --

    Believe me, I'm as surprised by my comment as you are.
  23. Re:What I want to see... by Stuntmonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...is all k-12 text books and supporting materials (worksheets, lesson plans, etc.) produced under an open source licence... This work could be all be done collectively by the nations teachers themselves, just like this good woman has done. This idea just needs a Corporate Sponsor or two to host the server space and bandwidth.

    No, your idea needs content. The server space and bandwidth are trivial. Are you lining up to write a few chapters for free, or is this one of those things where you're volunteering other people's time?

    And while we're at it, haven't you ever noticed that the aesthetic quality of a product is inversely related to the number of people with creative control? K-12 textbooks read like DMV manuals precisely because there are too many people involved; "open-sourcing" their creation would only exacerbate the problem. I challenge you to name a single book written by >3 people that doesn't suck, or to name a book written by >1 person that is a genuine classic.

  24. Re:A Kinesthetic Approach by reverseengineer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I totally agree. I was lucky enough to have science teachers in junior high and high school who emphasized hands-on learning. Textbooks can be a valuable resource, but they can't be used as a crutch. In most of my classes, textbooks were used to assign homework and practice problems, but the teaching was done by the teacher.

    Of course, I think my teachers' decisions to not make much use of textbooks stemmed in part from the texts sucking pretty hard. Given their current state as a mishmash of facts written by committee, I'd say teaching science from only a middle-school science text would be like teaching English using only a dictionary. The facts are all present and accounted for, but the presentation is a bit dry. Personally, I think Joy Hakim's overhaul sounds like an excellent idea- there are some fascinating stories in science, and I think that they could greatly enrich the material.

    A careful balance has to be struck, however, between these "stories" and academic rigor. On the one hand, I would argue that learning about how learning how Newton and Leibniz hated each other, for example, is not as important as learning about their independent discovery of the calculus. Any changes made to middle school science must keep in mind that some of the students passing through middle school will become our nation's next generation of scientists. I don't want to see kids get three years of touchy-feely science "stories" with no real science and then go on to get overrun in high school and college when they take hardcore "real" science courses. On the other hand, I had the honor of meeting distinguished physicist and Nobel laureate Leon Lederman acoupke weeks ago- he gave a talk about his efforts to reform science education at the high school level, actually- and he said something that made a lot of sense. He pointed out that the scientific way of thinking would certainly be a good thing for all citizens to have- it promotes a very healthy sense of skepticism. Thus, any attempt to modify science education must walk a fine line, catering to both future scientists and every other student. While I am a proponent of rigor in science education, I think it would be a damn shame to turn off otherwise bright, eager students from the joys of science on account of a boring textbook. We have to encourage the few, but in a modern world surrounded by science, we can't afford to alienate the many.

    --
    "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
  25. Modalities of Learning by soundofthemoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I apologize in advance for lack of references. This is all from memory here.

    The important thing about learning anything isn't rote memorization, but internalization of concepts and then being able to reason from those concepts. Much of science is "common sense", and can be checked out using your intuition - cause preceeds effect, faster things cover set distances in shorter times, etc. But many physical and mathematical concepts are not intuitively obvious.

    In the 80s I heard of an educational program that used physical intuition to help teach "poor students" math and science. The educators knew that people learn using different modalities that develop at different ages. The kinesthetic modality develops first - that's what lets a baby put its hand in its mouth, or find its feet. Next comes the visiual modality. This is extremely powerful - you can recognize one face out of thousands in just a blink of an eye. The most abstract modality is symbolic. You can reason about anything symbolically, but it is the slowest mode, and unlike the others has little "hardware acceleration".

    (There seems to be cool hardware/software in the brain for doing lots of visual processing. For instance, the time it takes to match a shape with the same shape rotated is proportional to the angle of rotation. And Deaf people who grow up using sign language score much better at visual perception tests, as the visual parts of their brains are more developed from using them for language.)

    The program I heard about used an approach of starting with the lowest level modalities and progressing upwards until students had a symbolic grasp of the material.

    For instance, the students were taken out into a field with portable sonar range-finders and computers. They were then asked to run in various manners: constant velocity, accelerating, decelerating, running in a circle, etc. Using the gadgetry, they could see a visual plot of their movement, in terms of velocity and acceleration. This let them tie their kinesthetic understanding of simple physics to a visual one. Building on that, they were able to grasp the mathematical concepts of position, velocity, and acceleration.

    It seems a lot of education tries to deliver information at the symbolic level. If you give students a way to connect that abstract stuff to things they already understand, they do a lot better at internalizing it.

    Piaget showed that people learn at the frontiers of their knowledge. If you tell someone something they've already learned, there isn't any opportunity to learn it again. And if you tell someone something too far removed from what they already know, they can't make a connection to it and won't understand it (try explaining quantum mechanics to someone who doesn't know about atomic theory). But if you tell someone something that they have enough background for, they will be able to make that connection, and voila, learning occurs!

    Hakim's approach of telling stories about scientific progress might make the information easier for students to memorize. However it doesn't seem like it will make the concepts easier to internalize. That takes a more radical approach.

  26. Learning Baseball like Learning Science... by Aetrix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My undergrad (Biology) advisor had this most excellent poster on his wall:

    (This is what I remember from it... Not an exact quote. But you'll get the gist...)

    --Begin Poster--

    If Baseball was taught like Biology:

    1. Athletes would read about some of the great players in Baseball history.
    2. They would listen to lectures about the fundamental concepts of baseball: batting, fielding, pitching, running.
    3. Athletes would become involved in group discussions about the rules of baseball and the strategies involved in playing a game.
    4. Athletes would assemble for 2-3 hours a week and have "hands-on" experiences with balls and bats in a closed and highly controlled environment.
    5. Athletes would learn and practice the techniques of calculating statistics such as the RBI.
    6. Then athletes would "take the field" and attempt to play a competitive game against other teams who had limited experience on a baseball field

    ---End Poster--Begin Rant--

    Science is not a body of knowledge, but a methodology of answering questions. Though "the hard facts" are important to understanding Science (like memorizing the carbon atom has 6 electrons) these are simply facts. More and more today we have immediately available facts. I haven't even seen "The Handbook of Physics and Chemistry" in dead-tree format for over 5 years now! We need to realize that since information is readily available, the concepts and methods are important. Instead of pounding in facts, teach students how to become talented information-finders. That type of skill will be more important in "the real world" than knowing the chemicals involved in the Krebs Cycle.

    --

    "One touch of Darwin makes the whole world kin." George Bernard Shaw
  27. Re:Different at the College Level...Why? by Cyberdyne · · Score: 3, Insightful
    To avoid differing versions, costly rewrites and so on, most publishers give their books to a few select committees in Texas (and California) for approval and only if they pass there do they go on to the rest of the country.

    Woo, Texas, where the right-wing trolls control the education system.

    Anyone else sick of this damn state too?

    I don't like the suppression of prostitution references, but I'll still take that over Kansas's objection to the teaching of evolution any day! Prostitution, after all, is hardly a key element of history, while evolution and natural selection are pretty fundamental to biology...

  28. Re:Different at the College Level...Why? by gilroy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Blockquoth the poster:

    Damn, the stuff they had to know back then would blow your mind. Most of it was more advanced than anything I came across in university.

    Nah, I've come across those things from time to time. My mom, a retired public school teacher, loves to forward them to me. But look carefully: The things that those tests test are facts and memorization -- the of the skills that are needed today and tomorrow. Never compete against a machine at the task for which it was designed -- computers store information better than humans. Computers also do arithmetic better than humans. Being able to convert 12.3 bushels into pecks simply isn't a life skill anymore.


    One of the real issues is, we don't know what skills are relevant, we don't know how to teach said skills, and we don't know how to evaluate the outcomes. As a current physics teacher, I can assure you it's something I'm thinking about all the time, and I feel I am making only incremental progress.


    Those "1890 finals" point more about how our society's conceptions of knowledge have remained limited, than about how the schools are failing.

  29. Paul G. Hewitt's Books by McCrapDeluxe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At my high school, we use Paul G. Hewitt's physics books. Firstly, I should explain that my school subscribes to the view of "physics first," so all students are required to take a semester of physics freshman year (9th grade). The books provide a great overview of basic physics, have festive little drawings, and have writing full of personality. By the end of the class, many students (including me) love the book, compared to other textbooks, which are promptly forgotten. These books are a good standard for a more basic course's textbook.

  30. Re:Different at the College Level...Why? by gilroy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Blockquoth the poster:

    So why is this so very different from college textbooks

    Don't delude yourself. A lot of college textbooks are crap, too. The main difference seems to be that there is an actual market in college books -- bad ones can sink quickly and good ones get established. Is it because only a few people write them? No. It's because use of a given text generally depends only on one person -- the prof teaching the course. If a books sucks (and the prof cares), then it drops from the required list. If enough profs agree it sucks -- even if they never talk to one another -- the book vanishes because no one buys it.


    On the other hand, at lower levels, books are bought once every n years, with n usually 5 or more. So a bad textbook sticks around. Teachers get used to using it, aligning their plans with it, pacing by it, etc. So when time comes to change, they're often antsy about it. And of course, the decision is not made by the teacher at all (esp. in public school) but by yet a different committee for the whole state.


    Hmmmm. Individual profs choosing --> individual authors --> better books. Committee of educators choosings --> committe of writers --> bad books. Maybe it's just a case of a species protecting its own. :)

  31. Re:my 2 bits. by gilroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That being a given, I dont believe your arguments against my post hold much water. A few mispellings, a couple gramatical errors, and whatnot, but aparently you got my point. .. so whats wit the bitching??

    Hmmm. Comprehension is enough? Then aren't we dumbing down slashdot to the lowest common denominator, those who haven't grasped the basic skills of writing and grammar?
  32. Re:What I want to see... by dvdeug · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I challenge you to name a single book written by >3 people that doesn't suck, or to name a book written by >1 person that is a genuine classic.

    The Bible. The Kalevala.

  33. Re:Science fundamentals are important by gilroy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Blockquoth the poster:

    Wonder why so many people believe in crystals and angels and aromatherapy? Poor grounding in basic science, and an ignorance of the fundamentals.

    and a habit of believing "arcane, obtuse language" == "truth" ... said habit being established by textbooks that focus on technical jargon to the exclusion of actual content. I stress for my kids: They actually understand a lot of what they think gives them trouble. They just lack the formal language to say what they understand. By all means, include the jargon -- but don't pretend that learning the jargon is the same as learning the subject. Too many textbooks make that pretension.
  34. Re:Rewriting? by John+Zebedee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Agree completely about the necessity of interpreting data. The challenge is to remember that our worldview is not necessarily congruent with that of the original makers of history. There is, of course, no such thing as an unbiased text, but it would be nice, in a more perfect world, to have that bias declared on the frontispiece. I'm thinking the same should be applied to the broadcast media. Then all we have to do (all?! hah!) is teach our kids critical thinking: how to identify bias and form conclusions accordingly. Somewhat OT: Randy Cassingham is launching a crusade against Paternalistic Condescention, on the This Is True website.

    --
    The future is here. It's just not evenly distributed yet. -- William Gibson
  35. Re:A Kinesthetic Approach by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Depends on what you mean by "very good." In all science, we can describe the way something works, we can predict the way something works, we can even give it a nifty name ("gravity" "electricity"), but we still know squat about "Why?" Nifty names only answer "How?"

    I'm tempted to say that "Why?" is by definition outside the realm of science.

  36. i'm not sure if what i have to say is relevant by themusicgod1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but before i cracked open my math110/105 Multivariable Calculus book here at the University of Regina i thought that it might be healthy to crack open a junior highschool math textbook to brush up skills that never really had a chance to fade away to begin with. that's right, i went right from highschool, taking at least one math course every semester since BIRTH[my parent's have been throwing numbers at me in one form or another, [now to think about it, if you include music, before birth woo jsbach/pinkfloyd/eltonjohn!] pretty much since i was created.]... and part of my major is mathematics [ComputerScience/Mathematics]. fair enough... also - i'm not exactly stupid here. sure i may not be the top of my class... the classic underacheiver, but it's not my intelligence, at least i think, which is the cause. so i take and i pull open this textbook of simple, simple math...

    i first notice it's from awhile back. mabye the 70s, mabye the early 80s...old stuff. it starts out defining very specific terms, such as 'membership' and a 'set' [after a breif writeup of who, cantor right?], and then proceeds to what an axiom is, the axioms of transitvity, symmetry, etc...


    before i actually read the text, i got ALL The questions wrong. every single one. i knew NONE of this. i suspected it's existance, but i had never been taught any of this stuff. i remember in elementary school being told not to do any more math because 'i was getting ahead of the class' and the teacher wanted me to stay with the class. given it was a french elementary school, who knows mabye that was relevant. anyway, while i do know[or at least believe i know, or know that i believe that i know...?] that i can count to 1000 or so in both french and english, ...

    WHY is it that i can't do these really simple bits of math, that i'm sure have been doable since the times of Daedalus...yet if i can't do it i'd be willing to bet good money that no one who's graduated my highschool within the past 5 or so years has. that's what, 6000 people? i guess i'm not talking for very many, but this is really significant. this means that many people have no idea what a number is. that many people have no idea why specific relations hold, and proofs weren't taken until grade 12 --- in a class most people didn't take, which means people CANT recreate mathematics if they had to for whatever reason. of course one could argue that if we weren't so restricted by the axioms we have that we'd still come up with a bunch of mathematics, albeit completely different from a set of newfangled axioms, and it may solve the same, or roughly more problems than our current one, but i'm still kinda skeptical of this whole process being productive - after all if this current system of mathematics is a bad thing wouldn't it be better to raise a person up in it so that they could find out in university that "there are no absolutes", "god is not a number", or whatever you want to negate? or mabye i'm completely and utterly wrong? but the whole matter scared the hell out of me, and this was before i got into descartes and his doubting the simplest of logical reasonings. but yes. in case you hadn't been paying attention, what i'm saying is the fundemental parts of math are no longer taught in either elementary or highschool [local saskatchewan, Canada]. of course, mabye if the highschool i went to didn't have this strange mentality of 'get overinvolved in every social club and athletic group and community group you can get invovled in so that not only do you not have time enough to have a social life so you can fuck and get into trouble, but you'll be so overtired, overworked, and burnt out by the end of the 4 years you'll be either hopelessly insane or wanting to commit suicide just to get some rest... but that's all just speculation, of course...

    or mabye i just suck at math? that's always an option i suppose....or mabye there's another factor? mabye it's all my fault?

    --
    GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
  37. Re:A Kinesthetic Approach by the+Atomic+Rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is science we're talking about. We can answer the "How?" but have no clue on the "Why?" part.

    People sometimes make this claim, but it's really a silly wanky thing to say. You're using a definition of "clue" that's so restrictive it's practically meaningless.

    Science is perfectly capable of answering "why" questions. Granted, the answers that it provides are necessarily incomplete, pointing to deeper questions, but an incomplete answer is still an answer. There are NO complete answers to ANY question, inside or outside the realm of science.

  38. Re:Rewriting? by Skyshadow · · Score: 4, Insightful
    so what your saying is that history is someones opinion of what past events mean. No Thankyou, I'll be the judge of the meaning of events that happened yesterday.

    Pretty much anybody can judge the meaning of events that happened yesterday, seeing as most of us were around back then to witness it first hand. It's a mistake, however, to instantly group political propaganda with valid interpretation of historical events.

    Let me give you a "what": Homesteaders in the midwest during the last part of the 19th century would surprisingly often take time off from working on their own farms to go work on their neighbors' farms. There was no money or barter involved, they'd do it even when there was obviously work to be done on their own farms, and in most cases the time spent wasn't even kept track of in any way. Why not work on their own farms where they'd benefit from their labor?

    It's not spelled out for you in their journals or explained in the county records, so you've got to work out the "why" for yourself. To do that, you need to do what the historian does: try to put yourself in their place, understand their reality and their reasoning. Our thinking is that it served two purposes: (1) an informal form of work sharing, an understanding that many jobs can be completed in fewer man-hours with many people than with a few, but even more importantly (2) this custom provided much-needed socialization, which is especially important when you consider how rampant cabin fever was during the isolation of the winter ("Wisconsin Death Trip" is overdone and somewhat cliche, but none the less an informative collection of the sort of insanity that prevailed when this system broke down).

    That's an example from just over a century ago here in America, within three or four generations for most of us; now try interpreting events from 1000 years ago and half a world away. Take my word, it ain't easy -- if we thought like you, I'm sure we'd just assume our ancestors were just stupid or nuts.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  39. Re:Lets dumb down the schools some more! by jd_esguerra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a good thing to have confidence in math. I hope you are planning for college.

    If I had to condense all of my high school/college advice into one point for future engineering/math/science students, it would be this: Focus on the derivation of the proposed solution.

    Memorizing a bunch of formulae is a total waste of time and energy. Instead of spending hours memorizing, go through the process of deriving the problem mathematically, and then go through the complete derivation of the possible solutions. When grappling with some scientific/mathematic question, knowing the "why" behind a presented solution is just as important as knowing the "how."

    The value of slogging through the derivations once or twice (like on homework) is that you will become familiar with the "tips and tricks" that WILL be used in your professional career--essentially, the philosophy and methodology of coming up with mathematical models and solutions. There is unmeasurable value in being able to recognize what approximations or assumptions can be be imposed on a mathematical model, and how they will affect the model (including its solution).

    A comment on grade/high school being too easy: It is. I would love to see a much more rigorous college prep program. However, I know people who didn't even try college because they had trouble in high school. While I think increasing the intensity of education (esp. math/science) would benefit the "good students," keeping the intensity level within the ability of the maximun number of students increases the odds of even mediocre students at least attempting to try college. In the big picture, THAT is what's important.

    Consider this: if you are going to college-particularly to study math/engineering- the second you matriculate, all of your previous educational records are essentially worthless. The college prep focus of getting you INTERESTED in engineering/math/whatever by letting you build balsa wood bridges, mousetrap cars, et cetera-- worked. In college, you will learn how to analyze mousetrap cars: energy analysis, kinematics, material selections, optimization for speed or distance or weight. You'll learn it all! And the bulk of what is important (the philosophy) it will be based on mathematics beyond even the most advanced high school math.

    Bottom line is, if can get into college, you can make it as challenging and rewarding as you want it to be.

  40. I like your point about respect but... by obtuse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think an awful lot of it comes down to social promotion.

    Schools are doomed by social promotion. How can you have effective schools if it is essentially impossible to get left back, or to fail a grade?

    Next year, you are guaranteed to have students who can't do the work getting promoted to the next grade. Teachers may not grade on a curve, but won't completely abandon those students who can't get the material. Repeat this cycle a few times with a consequent lowering of standards each time around, and it's a miracle that our schools work at all.

    Once they're lost, they're lost for good. For example, reading ability is a big part of their ability to work around those bad teachers and crappy texts. If they don't learn to read, they'll hit a hard ceiling, just as they'll hit a hard ceiling later on if they don't learn mathematics. When you have illiterate kids graduating from high school, then obviously schools are failing.

    If we don't quantify what we're trying to achieve we've got no chance of measuring success. Social promotion is the equivalent of renaming failure to success.

    As far as respect goes, I didn't respect some of my teachers, in some cases with good reason. One of them was finally fired for throwing a stool at a student, (he taught 4th grade, so we're talking about an adult launching a stool at a nine year old.) This didn't surprise me, and he wasn't my worst teacher.

    We'll always need better teachers, better textbooks, and wish our culture put more value on education. We will always need to pursue these things. I was lucky: Even if I didn't respect my teachers, I sure as hell wanted to learn from all of them, even the floating turds, who will always be there.

    What we must do is try to make education about education, and put the mechanics in place for the system to succeed at its chosen task. Perhaps we should introduce the novel idea of academic promotion in school, as a sort of social experiment.

    Nah, I'm sure it's much too risky.

    --
    Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
  41. Children like to learn by ojQj · · Score: 2, Insightful
    You're absolutely right.

    I was raised largely this way by my parents, and I don't think they could have done it better. When I asked questions they couldn't answer, my mother took me to the library to find the answer and learned with me. I never had a curfew but I rarely stayed out too late. My parents never punished or rewarded me for my grades, but I usually got good ones. They told me they were proud of me if I did well, and helped me learn if I asked for help and that was it.

    I once had a substitute teacher who saw things a little differently. She was teaching an algebraic principle in my 8th grade math class, when I noticed another way to solve the same problem. I tried to tell the sub about it, but she told me to shut up. But my fellow students understood what I was saying and starting asking me about it. The reaction I got from the sub was punishment for disrupting the class (I guess she saw me as a sort of ring-leader against her).

    Children *love* to learn -- more so than adults. Attempting to quench even a portion of that thirst, is one way of respecting them as people. It means taking their questions seriously. It also means pointing them to other questions which you think should interest them, and making an effort to explain why it should interest them. Once that's done, getting the kids to do the work that is also a necessary part of learning won't be difficult, because they will see the rewards involved in doing so.

    This is not the same as cramming things down their throats -- with that approach your children may, if you're lucky, reach your level of competence. But if you feed and magnify a child's natural desire to learn, he will continue to seek knowledge well after you can no longer provide it yourself.