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DRM and Threat Analysis

miladus writes "A timely and concise intervention by Ed Felten on the topic of DRM and the models used (or not used) to represent the threats to defeat. In brief, 2 models, one based on the potential of large scale redistribution of copyrighted files implying defeat of DRM if one user succeeds in bringing file inquestion to P2P network; the other, refers to the majority of users who would casually copy files. The implications of the schematization are most interesting because they explain some the logic behind the often confused and confusing rhetoric of DRM advocates and the necessity for rational grounding for technologies."

30 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. DRM by A+Swing+Dancing+Dork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am okay with DRM as long as I know who holds the keys. With todays Homeland security, I am not sure that I am the only key holder.

    1. Re:DRM by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Constutional protections? I'm sorry. Didn't you get the memo? We're more concerned with terrorism than freedom now. Please change your mood accordingly.

      ~Management

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
  2. Bah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I couldn't bother going to the link, I'll just download it off kazaa later ;)

  3. Euphemisms by sploxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article:
    "... leads to incoherent rhetoric ..."
    The only rhetoric I hear and see all the time are the many euphemisms used by the "DRM industry".

    drm - I best manage my rights by deciding freely what to do with the data on my PC

    copy *protection* - what does it protect?

    piracy - I am not on a ship in the carribean sea.

    etc.pp.

    1. Re:Euphemisms by Flower · · Score: 4, Informative
      piracy - I am not on a ship in the carribean sea.

      For grins once, I checked out a dictionary published in the 50s. One defination for piracy was copyright infringement.

      I think that after 50+ years of common usage bitching that the term isn't accurate is pedantic. People here just don't like the connotation it carries. Get over it and find a better way to argue the point. Like calling the act "sharing" instead of usurping the copyright owner's distribution rights.

      --
      I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
    2. Re:Euphemisms by MosesJones · · Score: 5, Funny

      piracy - I am not on a ship in the carribean sea.

      Well I am on a ship in the carribean so thank you so much for assuming I'm a pirate. Its that sort of random classification and assumption that assumes all people on boats in the carribean are pirates that leads to real problems.

      --
      An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    3. Re:Euphemisms by ichimunki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The term piracy is just too loaded-- no matter how common its usage may be it implies a criminal mindset and has connotations of pillaging or theft. Sharing, while it describes the act, also implies a legal and moral right to do that sharing-- a lot of the sharing going on is not Fair Use.

      Why don't we stick with accurate legal terms straight out of the lawbooks? I propose "copyright infringement" as a reasonable alternative. It points out that the act is illegal or otherwise disallowed and focuses on that as the basis for discussion. This way we can keep the discussion of the morality of copyrights, 3rd party duplication and derivation, and other such matters separate from the legal questions.

      Right now this debate is hugely clouded by the existing legal framework and the language used in its enforcement. The average American doesn't mind a little "piracy", but when questioned closely on this topic will probably have strongly held opinions that equate some level of "piracy" with theft-- which copyright infringment is not (theft, that is). If information, ideas, stories, visual expressions, etc, were rivalrous resources such that my use of them would prevent your use of them, then the word "theft" might be appropriate. But since this is not the case, words like "piracy" and "theft" serve only to cloud the issue.

      BTW, Slashbot hero Lawrence Lessig uses the word "thief" in his book "The Future of Ideas" to describe someone who would engage in whole copying of said book-- proving that even top notch IP lawyers who are presumably on "our" side have internalized this dangerous notion that an idea or an expression can be owned while still being shared.

      We are never going to resolve this issue (unless technocrats resolve it for us by conspiring to remove our right to Fair Use entirely) by tossing about loaded words. We need to divest the discussion of any moralizing whatsoever... unless you want to make the case that there is a moral basis for copyright (the Constitution merely mention promoting the Arts and Sciences, not some support for an inherent human right to idea ownership)-- which no one has done yet, except by taking the existing legal framework and describing it using loaded, moralistic words.

      --
      I do not have a signature
  4. MS wants to play both ways... by jkrise · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the ref. article:
    "Either you choose the Napsterization model, and accept that your technology must be utterly bulletproof; or you choose the casual-copying model, and accept that you will not prevent Napsterization. You can't have it both ways"

    If you're a big enough monopoloy, you can PRETEND to have a bulletproof model - sell the model to the copyright holders, and sell (indirectly) a cracking tool to the mass market. Build yet another platform (Palladium) to break the latter tool.

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  5. DRM by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 5, Funny

    DRM is the digital equivalent of having to keep a drunk, rowdy police officer in your home 24/7 without a warrant. There are constitutional protections against that sort of thing.

  6. Napsterization in the end by embedded_C · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The DRM advocates must choose the Napsterization Model: It is potentially the most damaging, in terms of profits.

    1. Re:Napsterization in the end by smd4985 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are correct - when it comes down to it, a DRM advocate would have to make her system 'bulletproof'.

      Unfortunately, a 'bulletproof' DRM system infringes upon the long-standing principle of fair-use.

      So we have two possibilities:
      1) if DRM only solves the casual copying problem, the owners of the copyrights aren't happy.
      2) if the DRM system is 'bulletproof', the users of the copyright content aren't happy.

      Since there hasn't been an innovative compromise that defends against napsterization AND protects fair-use, no one is happy with the state of DRM.

      --
      smd4985
  7. Napsterization? by darkitecture · · Score: 3, Informative


    Gosh... Who would've thought? 'Napsterize' has become a verb... Kind've reminds me how William Gibson used the phrase "Watergated" as a verb in Neuromancer.

    But enough about that. The article generalizes far too much IMHO; I find it hard to believe that a large percentage of threats can be categorized into either of the two models mentioned. There is a valid point being made, by all means... but someone needs to elaborate a little more on the subject...

    I guess that's what Slashdot is for! :)

  8. Sorry by JSmooth · · Score: 5, Funny

    But this article was fairly meaningless in its own right. Nothing new if offered just that the current solution doesn't work. Something we already know.

    As a fellow security professional I find it puzzling to read this small, content-free, snippets found on the great ether. It helps to re-identify the issues at hand but does little to solve them. DRM is certainly an issue but it is time to stop complaining about it and offer real world solutions.

    Me? I believe that copyright infringement is tatmount to terrorism and can only be addressed by regime change. I feel the only workable solution is the total elimination of the MIAA, RPAA and any other group involved in the creation, publication and distribution of copyrighted material. Also mandatory death sentences should be handed out to anyone who provides content.

    Right now I have 3 squirrels in my pants.

    Thank you for your support.

    1. Re:Sorry by johnkoer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just remember to take em out before you get to springfield because according to Wiggum:

      "It's _also_ illegal to put squirrels down
      your pants for the purposes of gambling."

  9. If you can't beat them accept the threat model? by Phigrin · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I don't know if saying that the adoption of a threat model isn't just a nice way of saying that you have to accept what you cannot change. The problem of napsterisation, is more complex than that.

    It would be far better to approach this problem on a social rather than a technical security basis.

    I would perhaps like to see a model where you license a song for life. Something along the lines of paying $1.50 for a song and you get a digital certificate that licences you to own the song, no matter where you got it from.

    That would mean that I could get the song quickly from my buddy down the road, and while that is downloading via the loacal bandwidth I could log on to BMI, Sony or whoever (The RIAA homepage!?!?), and pay my royalties.

    No wait, I could just log on to the artist's homepage and pay the $.50 directly to him/her/them!!!

    1. Re:If you can't beat them accept the threat model? by Xformer · · Score: 3, Funny

      No wait, I could just log on to the artist's homepage and pay the $.50 directly to him/her/them!!!

      At least they'd be getting twice what they are now, so why not?

      --
      All I want is a kind word, a warm bed and unlimited power.
  10. Fantastic by arvindn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    He has made a profound point in so few words. There can be no excuse for /.ers for not reading this article.

    I just want to make the observation that in real life you don't get to choose your threat, of course; both threat models are present to some extent. You can only talk about which threat model $protection_measure addresses and to what extent.

    Another thing is that *AA can hope to bring the Napster model closer to the small-scale copying model by persecuting individual users. Witness:

    The first, which I'll call the Napsterization model, assumes that there are many people, some of them technically skilled, who want to redistribute your work via peer-to-peer networks; and it assumes further that once your content appears on a p2p network, there is no stopping these people from infringing.
    On most p2p networks there is no anonymity and so there is still a chance of preventing this scenario. But all that changes when freenet comes into the picture. If it gets widely used, an ugly, long-drawn, bloody clash between "content creators" and "pirates" is inevitable. There are two possible outcomes at the end of it: 1) a draconian world ruled by the evil side 2) a severe reevaluation of our current notions on copyright, intellectual property, and revenue models. I dearly hope the clash occurs and the latter outcome results. The sooner we get out of the digital dark age the better.
    1. Re:Fantastic by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think there would be a clash between "content creators" and "pirates", there hasn't been thusfar (with the exception of Metallica). Part of the issue with all this mess is we don't actually _hear_ from the creators, only the publishers, bankrollers etc... When will the artists ever stand up and take a side in all this? They certainly need to do so before any meaningful DRM is in place or it will be too late for an alternative.

  11. Threat Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There's another threat model, it's the immortal music. The RIAA is very upset that CD's last so much longer than LPs. They've tried to block the resale of used CDs. With DRM, they can go back to the old mortal music model. P2P is just the scape goat. Funny how much the casual model sounds like fair use.

  12. DRM works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Without DRM, one person buys TurboTax for $40 and copies it for 5 friends:

    revenues: 1 x $40 = $40
    losses due to piracy: 5 x $40 = $200
    net: $40 - $200 = -$160

    With DRM, the same person buys TaxCut and copies it for 5 friends:

    revenues: $0
    losses due to piracy: $0
    net: $0

    So by using DRM, Intuit saves $160.

    1. Re:DRM works by Technician · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sad but true. It only works in a monopoly. This is great news for Tax Cut. Check out who does better next year. Remember when Ashton Tate did the anti-copy stuff on Framework? Remember when Rainbow Dongles were all the rage? It's the quickest way to get bypassed in the marketplace. How is selling encumbered products at higher prices in a competive marketplace good business sence.

      It may work in a monopoly like cable, but not where there are alternatives. I've dropped all subscription TV. I have alternatives on the internet. It's a great promotion Microsoft is giving the Open Source movement with the software subscription model. They couldn't have done a better thing to promote free software. They are driving developers to the new wide open market to promote their wares on Linux. The customers are there looking for the applications.

      The music industry is doing great things for Inde Bands who otherwise would never get attention, but get lost in the sea of CD's.

      I love a free market where the consumer is always right! Great inovations happen!

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  13. The problem with DRM'd music... by bert33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is that at some point the music has to be unencrypted. There is no way to prevent me from intercepting the signal being sent to my speakers, recording it and ripping it to mp3. The quality is not going to be that great, but that's par for the course on Kazaa. The same is true for movies... there will always be cam versions no matter what.

    So, if we accept the (logical) "Napsterization" model using any type of encryption/fair use deprivation sceme is going to be pointless when the music/film has to be percieved by the human eyes and ears in the same way it always has been.

    --
    These people look deep into my soul and assign me a number based on the order I joined.
    1. Re:The problem with DRM'd music... by sploxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Until the time arrives when DRM will be built" into every speaker you buy and the construction of paper sheets with attached magnets and coils falls under the DMCA or EU-DMCA or whatever.

      Sounds silly?

      Intel is on the way to integrate DRM into monitors so that you can't intercept the signal and record it (e.g. a movie). It's called HDCP -
      High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection.

      Look here:
      http://www.digital-cp.com/

  14. partly correct, but: by n3k5 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    1) if DRM only solves the casual copying problem, the owners of the copyrights aren't happy.
    2) if the DRM system is 'bulletproof', the users of the copyright content aren't happy.
    1) The users are even unhappy about DRM that just tries to solve the casual copying problem. Think CDs not playing in car CD-players etc.
    2) I haven't seen a bulletproof DRM system yet, not even a theoretical one.
    --
    but what do i know, i'm just a model.
  15. False dichotomy? by ronys · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ed Felten has a valid point about the need to choose a threat model, and to stick to that choice.

    However, he has not convinced me that the two threat models that he describes are the only ones, or indeed separate threat models at all.

    I would view p2p networks as a means to achieving "widespread, but small-scale and unorganized, copying," and not as a separate threat model at all.

    I'm also not clear about whom he's addressing: Most DRM advocates are aware of the fact that today's systems will not stop a determined adversary, and only mildly deter a casual user.

    --
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
  16. Napster, Casual Copying, and Capacitance by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The talk of two copying models and the level of protection needed to minimize each is profound. It speaks of a deep wisdom which many have overlooked.

    But I want to add something to it. Everyone here knows what a capacitor is, right? It's two metal plates separated by a little insulator. When enough of a charge builds up between those two plates, the current will briefly jump the gap through the insulator.

    The same applies to the Napsterizing/Casual-Copying model. Under casual copying, people make copies and distribute them to one or two friends. With Napsterization, one copy is made and broadcast to a great many people who want it.

    The two are separated by a small gap. Will someone make one or two copies, or make it available for hundreds to download? That's where the capacitance comes in. If there's enough pressure, sooner or later a piece of media will jump the gap from casual copying and appear somewhere for everyone to grab a copy of.

    What affects capacitance between the two? Well, the better the content is, the more people will want to show it to other people. The easier it is to show to other people, the more people will do so. P2P software today has cut the gap considerably. DRM is an attempt to add insulation and keep things from making the jump from casual copying to mass distribution.

    It's been demonstrated, preventing any copies from being made is theoretically impossible, but the Content Cartels continue to try to prevent it. Likewise, preventing the jump to from casual copying to underground mass distribution is nearly impossible, but the Content Cartels continue suing every P2P, university, or network service that doesn't outlaw it outright.

    It'd be interesting to see statistics on which results in more copies being made: P2P distribution or casual copying. Because it seems that P2P networks do more damage, but are much harder to prevent. And, in fact, if a DRM is put into place which prevents casual copying, I could see MORE people going to P2P systems to get copies from those who CAN break the "anti-fair-use technologies."

    Thoughtful as the piece on different types of copying threat is, it becomes moot as the different types come closer together.

    --
    You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
  17. The Core Fallacies of DRM by Catiline · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Felten's comments come close to, but do not quite repeat, the twin comments I have been making to friends about Digital Rights Manglement for the past year.

    First, Digital Rights Manglement schemes assume that the control over use of media offered to producers due to the virtue of being digital -- controls which they have never before possed in any other medium -- outstrip the value of fair use rights for their entire [potential] audience, despite the twin facts that fair use rights are established in law, and that [some of] the controls suggested violate other legal doctrines such as first sale. This alone is enough to dissuade me from supporting any such schemes.

    Secondly, even if you are a prolific creator -- such as Steven King or the Beatles -- you cannot create as much media output as you have input. Even for a creator, the fair use rights lost to DRM will outweigh the additional rights gained. Any way you slice the question, the public rights lost to Manglement will outweigh the private ones gained, because even the few beneficiaries also lose -- on a scale far larger than they gain. (The rest of us just lose.)

  18. Technical versus legal issues. by fjpereira · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't think those who have been supporting DRM are very interested in the technical issues around it.

    They are just interested in having some sort of encription system and then have laws to protect it.

    It just doesn't mather if the technical aspects of the encription methods are strong or weak.

    They just want to have laws to be able to go after anybody suspect of breaking the encription systems.


    My advice to all the people doing research on ecription and security is this: just be very carefull..

  19. This can be generalized by CyberLife · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The point made by the author can be generalized to any form of problem solving. When approaching a situation, you must first understand the problem before you can even begin to formulate an adequate solution. In my experience, this is the #1 thing that people do wrong in engineering (software or otherwise). Why just the other day, I was conversing with a collegue who was trying to decide between two ways of structuring a web application that would affect how the client used it. I asked him how the client currently does their business. He didn't know.

  20. Re:DRM -- NEVER okay with DRM by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I am okay with DRM as long as I know who holds the keys. With todays Homeland security, I am not sure that I am the only key holder.

    I am NEVER okay with DRM. As long as someone else holds the keys, they can change the rules anytime afterwards.

    Consider, you buy DRM protected music this year.

    Next year, through spending lots of money in Washington D.C., the industries are are granted the legal right to specify that the music you bought cannot be copied to any other form, and your DRM is automatically updated to enforce that without ever asking your consent.

    The year after that they get a law where your purchased music will expire after ten years of use. Just won't play after that.

    And the year after that, instead of unlimited plays allowed within your remaining eight years (the ten year limit was made retroactive, of course), you now have to pay a few pennies for each play. And btw, it now expires in seven (for you four) years.

    You can't do anything because they own the keys and can change the conditions of their use any time they wish (true of any DRM system, to deal with compromised keys, if nothing else). Your only recourse is to the law -- and they've already preempted that route.

    Let's be clear here: DRM IS NEVER OKAY. Got that?

    And if you're foolish to think the rules never change on something after you've bought it, look at how copyrights on old music and movies continue to be extended beyond ever expiring? Even now, copyrighted material first published before you were born will never expire in your lifetime.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."