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Office Depot: Windows XP Apps Must Be Microsoft-Approved
An anonymous reader writes "According to an article at The Inquirer, by May 30th Office Depot will only be carrying computer products that have been certified by Microsoft and carry the 'Designed for Windows XP' logo. This may be an initial glimpse at how Microsoft could introduce Digital Restrictions Management by ensuring all retail hardware and software products are approved by Redmond."
But, this is simply a marketing decision. Most of the "lesser" applications, the ones without certification, usually aren't hot sellers at the depot.
Did you Vote for Linux?
Microsoft may be a monopoly, but Office Depot is hardly the only place to buy software.
Software will still be available online, and from other vendors. As long as Microsoft doesn't require software makers to register with MS in order to make their products function properly on the OS, it can't be as bad as the article makes it out to be.
If they truly enforce this, then MS will lose market share the way Apple did when they stopped being the flexible environment for users. Fortunately for Apple, they have come back around. What OS will take the position? LINUX of course...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - The Celtic - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
How many people here can say they do their software shopping at Office Depot? Anyone? Bueler?
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
buying anything at Office Depot. I'll take my business elsewhere.
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
Red Hat 9.0 anyone?
OpenOffice anyone?
I think Redmond is playing the card of trying to keep non-MS approved (i.e. open source and other ISV) software off of retail shelves. However, with retail giants like Wal-Mart only concerned with cost and sales, this could prove a losing strategy....especially outside of the U.S.
My two cents.
I detect a small conflict brewing between the last two stories...
Ofice Depot will only sell Designed for Windows XP products, yet the redhat.com page says RedHat Linux 9.0 will be available from.....(you guessed it!) Office Depot!
Well, this IS a turn-up for the books - who thought RH would manage to get a "Designed for Windows XP" certification!
David
I've decided that, in the interest of not becoming completely cynical, I'm just going to pretend Microsoft doesn't exist or went out of business or something. Who's with me? =P
I only use Windows when I have to, to be sure, so maybe I'm out of touch. But I sure didn't think the penetration of XP was that large, yet--is Office Depot really ready to sacrfice 75% of their customers?
I guess just because it's ready for XP doesn't mean that it won't work on older versions of winders. On the other hand, I see lots of users of win98 knowing what it feels like to use a Mac and go shopping for software in an office supply store...
Hint--they won't be paying $199 just to shop with you.
--
$tar -xvf
Won't this just increase the rate at which software is pirated? Although the change would be small, any means of restricting the legal purchas of software will lead more people to pirate software. If someone who wanted to buy a legal copy of a piece of software that wasn't "Designed for Windows XP" (whatever that means) and they couldn't find it at Office Depot, they may just say "oh well I tried" and pirate it.
I do all my shopping for computer software at Office Depot! How am I going to get the latest Starworld Monkey Tetris 5.0 if Office Depot don't sell it?
I'm a girl too! See naked chicks in my journal!
Here's more from Microsoft. Here are the requirements to be certified.
And my opinion is the only one that matters to me.
"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
Slightly off-topic but, I'm wondering. How do you _really_ meet this criteria, for your app?
Would they ask to look at your code? :-)
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Please be aware that Office Depot is immediately requiring all products that connect to a Personal Computer and Notebook Computer must pass these Designed for Windows XP logo requirements
The specific use of the word "connect" smells strongly like the new policy applies only to hardware products, so that customers aren't scared when they bring home their products and get the "unsigned driver" alert. (Under Windows 2000 and Windows XP, installing an unsigned driver produces such an alert. Installing an unsigned user-mode application program does not produce such an alert.)
Will I retire or break 10K?
After all, according to a friend who works at Staples, for every one copy of Office or serious stuff they sell they sell 3 games and about 20 pieces of $10 old shovelware. Assuming the same is true at Office Depot, what are the odds that the shovelware is going to be, or bother to get, certified?
People are not going to start buying $60 games from you just because you stop selling the $10 games, they'll go to someone else selling the $10 crap.
Sweet crap people. Its called a "Business Alliance" and it happens an aweful lot, and not just in the IT industry.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I don't have an Office Depot near me, so I don't know what they're selling right now. I do know that if you walk into Staples, Circuit City, or Best Buy, they have a TON of crap that "connects" to computers. They will NEVER follow Office Depot's example, they would lose a SHITLOAD of business. Do you really think that they'll pull every keyboard, joystick, printer, stick of RAM, etc that isn't XP certified? What about multimedia speaker systems? Are Alienware cases supposed to get XP certification?
Another good example is Radio Shack. Shit, are they supposed to get every FAN and HEATSINK and power supply Y-cable M$ certified for XP? Right... Office Depot is going to be the loser here. Nobody else is going to go along with this steaming pile of crap.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
If others start following suit (read Walmart, Best Buy, etc) then this could be a very big deal indeed. Esp. if these retailers extend this thinking to their online sales. Think of it this way, Microsoft could effectively control the release dates of it's competitors products (or at least retail release dates) by controlling exactly when they are granted "certificiation". They also have the advantage of ALWAYS having at least a bit of a heads up on any products that their competitors are about to release (no springing a new Office suite on'em). Once again, having the OS company also sells apps is just a bad idea. How long before the OS will refuse to run any apps that have not been "blessed" by Redmond themselves?
Note that the initial article came from a British paper, indeed a very good one which I, like many on the left side of the puddle, read regularly. The article refers to Office Depot's UK stores, which have adopted the policy. It also suggests that US stores haven't yet done so, though they might at some point in the future.
I don't know how autonomous the different Office Depot divisions are, but many companies give a lot of autonomy to national divisions.
I sit two doors away from a Staples so I don't really go into an Office Depot much anyway....
I disagree. Do NOT get the ones where you can disable it. Get the ones that do not include it at all.
If it was an Office Depot decision, it would be OK. If it was a decision made under pressure from Microsoft, it's not OK. Because monopolies have unprecedented power, they are subject to additional restrictions.
"This may be an initial glimpse at how Microsoft could introduce Digital Restrictions Management by ensuring all retail hardware and software products are approved by Redmond."
It could also be an initial glimpse at how I could suddenly switch to linux, if windows gets too restrictive..
Have you sent "installed linux today" -email to microsoft yet?
love slashdot. populate it. use it. abuse it. hate it. kill it. miss it. stop following links, they only kill servers.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Rick -- you Idiot, that's Office Depot, not Home Depot. I buy my real HARDWARE from Home Depot.
-- Rick
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
Well, I peruse my Sunday ads every week, looking for bargains on things I can use....I've gotten some good stuff at Office Depot, mostly hardware or CDR's there...I go where the best deal is...I've already gone to their site and emailed a letter expressing my concern about this policy. Are you going to wait till your 'favorite' store does the same thing?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Wouldnt this be a funny way to slap MS in the face ?
Write a shiny wrapper whose sole purpose in life is to "extract" a linux distro ISO from a "database" and write such distro to a CD, then reboot the computer, forcing a linux install if you're configured to boot off cd.
Make sure your wrapper is working according to the WHQL "standard" and BOOM! Instant Microsoft Certified Linux distro. How's that for market penetration ?
I should get a patent on this. And on breathing...
Marriage is considered capital punishment for the theft of a goat in some third world countries...
Remember the EULA on windows from two years back? It said "This product cannot be used in life-critical applications, because it contains Java from Sun Microsystems." Don't underestimate the damage a sinister sounding warning message can cause.
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
One OS to rule them all,
One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them.
And thus began an age of darkness.
Linus, it is now your quest to take the OS and cast it back to the fires of Redmond.
Perhaps it might, particularly if the trend moves to other retailers. Office Depot isn't the first place I think of to get software, but apparently some people do buy there, and as a low profile seller they might have been a good place to start this practice, then when it shows up at the major retailers it can be dismissed as "nothing new".
But in asking if it will not just increase piracy, you should also ask who is behind this, who would be hurt by piracy and who would indirectly benefit. While OfficeMax didn't outright say so, I would bet that there was pressure from Microsoft to put this policy in place. So what software might this cause an increase in piracy of? Software not officially blessed and approved by Microsoft. Might this not be a small side benefit that Microsoft actually would welcome, putting another nail in the coffin in the little guy that will not play by Bill's rules? Clearly all Microsoft products will have the logos (even if, as is many times the case, they don't meet the same standards that independent developers are required to have to get that logo!) so this will not increase their piracy, only that of the competition.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
This has been going on isnce the pre win 3.1 days
Windows crashing with a mysterious error message when run under Dr. Dos instead of MS DOC. MS eventually lost the lawsuit in that one. Turned out they had designed Windows to detect the DOS vendor and crash if a non MS Dos was found.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I'm actually posting this message from a Computer located inside of an Office Depot location. I have been working at the depot for 4 years now, and I personally consider this to be a good thing, although I do have some reservations.
Consider the current retail culture in this world, sales are down, margins are slim and overall, profits are down. Office Depot is in a position where something has to be done to distinguish themselves from our competitors. Staples, Office Max and Grand & Toy (in canada) as well as whatever other retailers in the states are out there, make for a very competitive selling atmosphere, and with margins being as slim as they are, you cannot compete on price, what you have left is customer service, selection, and reliability. Most of the items that are going to be affected by this are the cheap little invoicing programs that no one buys anyway, that all get returned to the vendor after a year of not being on the shelf. Also consider that your typical customer at the depot, is not as computer savvy as you, or I am. Our typical customer is the home user, who is upgrading their early pentium box, and places constant phone calls to the store, whenever "This Driver is not digitally signed" comes up, or even today, the lady that called to ask how to find the CD Key for her Black ICE Defender. These are the type of people who NEED everything to work as smoothly out of the box as possible, with few or no questions.
Just because all of the itmes that we will now carry must be supported my XP, does not mean that those items will not work in alternate OS's...it just means that if an item is not 100% XP compliant, we won't carry it. If anything, this is just going to be an incentive for companies like HP, Canon, Lexmark, Epson etc to get off of their asses and fix all of the broken drivers that we see daily.
Disclaimer. I'm personally an avid OSS user, including Debian and FreeBSD. My home network has been windows free for 3 years now, and I could not be happier. However, I realize that 99% of the people that I see on a daily basis at my store, are using XP, or are upgrading to XP in the near future. From the standpoint of my employer, this makes sense, and I agree with them.
What about Mac Hardware.. Like umm.. a usb mouse. Ya, that works on a mac.. then you just slap 'also works on pc's' in on the otherside of the box and let them come after you. So how long till the manufactures figure out its easier to put a half ass mac driver on their website.. and call it a mac product and keep shipping the same box? A bigger problem is that I belive the parent of Office Depot owns other retail chains.. will they be forced to change as well?
Mod me down for saying this (on a side note : I think its lame to say "mod me down" : but if I don't say it, people will think I'm trolling. By putting that tag on my message I'm admitting the message is inflammatory)
Anyway, there are some notable advantages to a system like Palladium. Theoretically, it could enable certain types of applications that aren't possible today which involve trusting the client. Yes, I'm aware that even if the hardware is integrated into the processor someone could still steal the private keys the system depends on, and create an emulated version, cracking the system wide open. I'm also pretty confident the initial versions will have some subtle but still gaping hole, allowing them to be cracked with ease.
However, in theory if it all works right (and from a theoretical standpoint it IS possible to make it work right and be unbreakable) applications running under its protection would have their memory space protected against intrusion.
There is NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING planned that would stop you from writing your own applications that hide under this umbrella (but an integral part will be the system kernel, so microsoft OS only), and I'm sure microsoft will encourage you to do so. There is nothing that will stop you from running untrusted code : it just won't have access to resources belonging to trusted applications (unless you've hacked it of course)
Palladium won't prevent you from installing a different OS on the system, you just won't be able to run trusted apps in that OS (technically its possible to give these same features with open source. The actual keys would have to be hidden, controlled by someone, but everything else could be viewed and contributed to) . Yes in theory SOME types of remote hacking exploits could be stopped. Network applications would now only process messages that are signed by code that your palladium chip certifies as meeting certain criteria. This could make it possible for a microsoft server app to only even look at messages sent by a microsoft client app, preventing many hacks.
This means the application could have secret information in it that needs to be hidden from the end user. For instance, the application could be a movie player that decrypts a spiffy new high definition format which is capable of encoding 1080p digital movie quality video, copied byte for byte straight from the version used in theaters. It could be an online gaming client that to run efficiently must have certain information protected from access and tampering(coordinates of other players, your crosshair location, the current state of the world physics system, objects occluded from view, and many many more). The current generation of MMORPGs have very limited interactivity (cannot aim, shitty AI, no physics, no elements that require player twitch skill) because the client cannot be trusted with anything (and even then it has to have SOME information that could be useful to a hacker) nor control anything interesting.
And yes, it could be a document viewer that reads encrypted documents. The document files themselves might contain more information than the author wants revealed, so the viewer would obey certain rules about when the file can be accessed, and what machine. Currently this is impossible to create because someone could steal the decryption key the viewer uses right out of memory, or edit its code such that it no longer obeys restrictive tags in the file.
None of this would stop you from using untrusted players to view your current data files, and nothing would force you to convert. Unfortunatly, since the keys to the kingdom will be controlled by microsoft bad things could come from this. They could charge monopoly prices, use it to squeeze out their competitors, and do many more things. However, I believe that this has the potential to be a killer app. If you don't want microsoft to rule the software world even more than it already does, perhaps the open source community should look to creating their own, equivalent, alternative.
From the article: "Please be aware that Office Depot is immediately requiring all products that connect to a Personal Computer and Notebook Computer must pass these Designed for Windows XP logo requirements to be considered for retail distribution through our stores" - note the italics are mine. We are not talking about software but hardware that must be XP certified. So don't worry about that game, worry about that Video card or printer etc!!!!
Really, write a clear and concise reason why you don't like there decision.
You could be surprised at how seriously corporation take these letters. Hell, I got Saturn* to drop the price of a car when a I wrote them a letter at how angry I was at the way a sales rep. treated me.
*Saturn is a car company that has a non-negotiable car price.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
A "Not designed for Windows XP" logo?
Most small businesses do their shopping at Office Depot or a comparable office store. The "who the hell cares, no one buys computer related items anywhere but Fry's/newegg/CompUSA/random local specialty shop anyway" posts are naive and uninformed. A lot of non-technical people buy their equipment at office stores, not least because many of them have corporate accounts there. The implication here, while not stated explicitly, is that there will be no non-windows software at all. Back in 99/00 I convinced several clients to put linux on their servers largely on the basis of it being sold at Office Depot. This is an important marketing presence for linux. Not critical, but important.
Moreover, having a fairly major outlet only carry XP certified hardware will possibly encourage manufacturers to cut back on support for non-XP operating systems across their product lines. This will not only affect Mac/BSD/Linux users, but users of Windows 2000, NT, 98, and ME (yes, both of them).
this is getting old and so are you
blog
I just bought a notebook, and although I searched I was not able to buy one with the features I wanted in the price range without paying the extra Microsoft XP tax. Don't tell me it's a free market when a company found guilty of these monopolistic practices in federal court can continue to do business as usual.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Per Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/winlogo/default.mspx
Well, one can always go across the street (in most cases) and go to office max, where the prices & selection is typically better. Maybe office depot is just doing this, because they need to clear shelf space for more overpriced products that one can get anywhere else for less.
If Walmart and MS seriously butt heads I'ld expect Walmart to win. If for no other reason that it can threaten to put a complete Linux PC on its shelves for less than the cost of Windows XP.
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
Two, if you can't get your stuff on the shelves without MS certifying your drivers, and MS is a bit...slow about certifying devices with vendor-supplied Linux drivers.... Guess how many companies will look at the 98% of the peripheral/card market that is Windows and the 2% that is not, and decide they don't need to distribute their own Linux drivers, after all? We'd be back to 1995 for Linux drivers, rolling our own from reverse engineering.
Three, to really implement DRM for video and audio, you need to build it into the video and audio cards, and MS is still pushing their own DRM standards. If they can turn XP certification into a club to beat the card-builders over the head with, how long before you can't buy a SoundBlaster that isn't hard-wired for MicroSoft DRM?
Maybe that's all so much conspiracy-spinning, but the implications and conclusions look pretty obvious to me.
--Dave
Well, Apple software will only run on Apple approved hardware which is only sold by Apple authorized dealers. This contributes to how Apple can claim 'Everything Just Works' (TM). We don't hear the uproar about that. P.S. - I own an iBook and while everything does not "just works" it generally works better than a PC laptop (my previous one is a Sony VAIO SR subnote). And please intepret 'only' in the first sentence loosely, I am sure someone will find one or two exception out there but the above statement is generally true.
Please be aware that Office Depot is immediately requiring all products that connect to a Personal Computer and Notebook Computer must pass these Designed for Windows XP logo requirements to be considered for retail distribution through our stores. This change is being implemented due to our on-going pursuite to enhance and simplify our fanatical customer service environment at Office Depot. Products must be certified as Designed for Windows XP by May 30, 2003.
Please note that this policy refers to HARDWARE, not software. Thus, serial modems, mice, keyboards, surge supressors, cables, etc. could all fall under this category.
Does anybody seriously expect anybody to go through the motions of getting its serial cables "certified" by The Beast? Surge supressors? USB cables? All these things plug into PCs and notebooks, right?
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
This means that all of their existing products that do not meet the XP logo requirements will be found at a discount in the clearance bins....
communityrelations@officedepot.com
I sent the following email.
I read that you are.. I quote the title of the article. "Microsoft logo scheme means Office Depot won't sell non-compliant XP products". It is thoroughly clear to me that many of Microsoft's actions arn't in the best interest of it's customers. (or non-customers) A move like this on the part of your company appears to me that you are willing to support these actions. If this course of action is followed by your company, I will no longer be a customer of Office Depot.
The article in question is the following.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8472
Thank You,
Here's a summary of the logo requirements, from Microsoft's Logo site:
List of Windows Fundamentals Requirements
1.1 Perform primary functionality and maintain stability
1.2 Any kernel-mode drivers that the application installs must pass verification testing on Windows XP
1.3 Any device or filter drivers included with the application must pass Windows HCT testing
1.4 Perform Windows version checking correctly
1.5 Support Fast User Switching and Remote Desktop
1.6 Support new visual styles
1.7 Support switching between tasks
Installation Requirements List
2.1 Do not attempt to replace files that are protected by Windows File Protection
2.2 Migrate from earlier versions of Windows
2.3 Do not overwrite non-proprietary files with older versions
2.4 Do not require a reboot inappropriately
2.5 Install to Program Files by default
2.6 Install any shared files that are not side-by-side to the correct locations
2.7 Support Add or Remove Programs properly
2.8 Support "All Users" installs
2.9 Support Autorun for CDs and DVDs
Data and Settings Requirements List
3.1 Default to the correct location for storing user-created data
3.2 Classify and store application data correctly
3.3 Deal gracefully with access-denied scenarios
3.4 Support running as a Limited User
This may be an initial glimpse at how Microsoft could introduce Digital Restrictions Management by ensuring all retail hardware and software products are approved by Redmond.
Logo requirements exist to ensure a quality user experience. NOT to force DRM onto the world through Office Depot. This is biased speculation on the part of the submitter, and timothy, objective as always, posted it on the front page.
I don't want to buy a CD burner that says it works on XP when it won't without having to jump through tons of hoops.
I'm having a problem with an MP3 Player at the moment that has a USB interface. If I move this USB interface to any other USB port other than the one I installed the MP3 Drivers on, the MP3 Player won't work. It's clearly a software issue and this product isn't cleared as 'official' XP hardware.
The Manufacturer's suggestion on how to resolve this issue is not 'wait for the next version of the drivers' but install the drivers on each individual USB port. I've got 7 ports and I'll be damned if I'm going to install the drivers 7 times.
Dolemite
Save the World! Use a Quote!
Judging by the text of the memo from Office Depot suppliers, I am thinking that companies like Palm may be hurt the worst. In the memo it says:
Please be aware that Office Depot is immediately requiring all products that connect to a Personal Computer and Notebook Computer must pass these Designed for Windows XP logo requirements to be considered for retail distribution through our stores.
Well, Palm and most other PDA's do connect to the PC. I wonder if this is also Microsoft's way of cutting in at Palm?
--Jon
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"Logo requirements exist to ensure a quality user experience."
That explains why Windows packagings themselve do not have the logo.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
"A SCHEME BEING IMPLEMENTED by Office Depot - almost certainly at Microsoft's behest"
"Almost certainly" means that they're not sure. The article really pushes my anger buttons and I don't like it. Before the INQUIRERER pushes my rage button I would like to be sure that they know what it is that they are talking about so that I don't go off and make an ass out of my self.
This may be a dark plot by Microsoft, it wouldn't be the first time but it also could be a decision made completely by Office Depot. Please don't push my buttons if you're not sure.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
i type m for mozilla (in Unix)
when I'm in plan9 I right click any text that looks like a url, select plumb and get's freebsd to open it in a new tab in mozilla on my second monitor
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I've worked at Office Depot for about the last year and a half, in the Technology department. We sell a little of everything, including games and other software, and it is mostly (95%) oriented towards Windows. The only real Linux software that we carry in-store is RHx, and I'm quite sure we will continue to carry it. And for the mac stuff, well, as said previously, we only carry TurboTax and Quicken, and again, that will probably stay.
What this policy is affecting most is going to be the bargain software as well as the cheapo hardware. From the perspective I see from working there, it is most definately a wise move, since most of the time when a piece of software or hardware does not carry the logo, it is much more difficult to install/use, and is prone to return (Example: Lexmark... who here HASN'T had problems installing their shitty inkjets?). It is unreal how many people buy something, can't get it to work without tweaking something that they dont know how to change, and take it back, even if there is a big "DO NOT RETURN TO STORE" sticker on it. Most of these products get return to "DND", which is either returned to the vendor for repair or destroyed; but either way it costs the store money. I think the biggest company this will hurt is Lexmark, unless they can get their certification soon. The bargain software, in my opinion, is good riddance.
I hate sigs...
In the tradition of campers who keep asking, "Is BSD dying?", I have to ask: is the commercial software business dying? I realize that this decision on Office Depot's part to become Microsoft's bitch affects hardware as well, but it seems to me that the real pinch of this move is going to come most significantly to the software business. If MS can make this arrangement stick, it will hit the commercial software houses the hardest. After all, why would the Beast "certify" anything for Windows XP if it is in a category that they would like to dominate? I have in mind the things that Intuit, Symantec, and other vendors who sell popular desktop programs and have a significant market share. If they don't dance to MS' tune, then they might get locked out of the retail channel. Then again, that would be grounds for another lawsuit, which, by the time the court rules against MS, said companies could be out of business. Not that it would be any great loss in some cases...
Always look on the briight side of life! (whistle, whistle)
As each day passes, there is yet one more reason to quit using the crap that M$ disses out. With the rules so skewed towards M$'s benefit, who can make any money in the Windows environment other than M$? How many good applications are going to have to follow M$ rules or die? Instead of dying, how about porting to Linux? When there are only 5 M$ XP approved apps and 200 Linux apps on the shelf, what do you think people are going to do? Do you think that they may eventually remove the WinCrap from their machines and move Linux?
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill.
Linux - of the people, by the people, and for the people.
This is how ms will restrict linux, and a method that anyone unfamiliar with dealing with retail outlets will have no knowledge or ability to stop.
It's called a "slotting fee". Except, in reverse.
What's a slotting fee?
A slotting fee is the fee that supermarket chains charge to manufacturers for shelf space in their stores. The supermarkets started this, and perfected it, but it extends to all retails outlets.
Want to sell your product? It costs $1,000 per foot per shelf per store. In cash. Up front. No guarantees. Not selling? You are kicked out the next week. That's how it goes on at most supermarkets, and that's how it would go on at most electronics outlets as well.
The slotting fee is in addition to the marketing money, flyer money, sale money, advertising money that the manufacturers offer, or the chains demand.
How does ms keep out linux? Very simple. ms already pays a hefty sum to retailers for advertising in the flyers, for sales, and for shelf/floor space. All they have to do is mention that it would be unfortunate if they started to see Lindows on the floor or shelves after they provided so much money for promoting their own brand. After all, we (ms) are in a lawsuit with them, there is no reason to promote them, is there? How much are they paying you? Really? And how much are we paying you? When my boss finds out you are stocking Lindows, he's not going to be too happy. He was just going over sales figures for the area. Your chain's figures are unchanged from last quarter, yet Will's chain is up 5% from last quarter, and up 10% from the same quarter last year. So is Frank's chain. So are all the other chains we've reviewed so far. This is really worrisome. Our division's been cut back next quarter on marketing money. You really have to give me a good reason to keep sending you these $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 checks, especially after you are stocking a company that we are having a major problem with. They are even trying to steal our name. Haven't you heard?
I'll have to talk to my manager. I may not be able to save the marketing money for you next quarter. My manager has insisted that we concentrate on companies that are protecting our interests, and can show solid sales numbers. If he walks in here and sees Lindows, I'll lose my job. I'll see what I can do, but it doesn't look good. Maybe you can help me out. You know what you need to do. After all, what sales are you really seeing with Lindows? Our marketing payments exceed the gross sales of Lindows, and you are giving them valuable shelf space!?! Maybe you haven't had time to go over the figures. That must be your mistake. Here, let me show you your chain's sales for the past few quarters, and how much money you've been paid for marketing, flyers, slotting, co-branding, television ads, newspaper ads, and more. Now how much did you say your Lindows sales were?...
It's highly unlikely that a chain buyer would even get as far as the last paragraph above. I've sat through similar conversations with chains, and it rarely gets that far. As soon as a retail outlet is threatened with loosing valuable funds, the outlet capitulates faster than Saddam. Every time.
This is how ms will step on linux, and the linux sellers won't know what hit them, and by the time they figure it out, it will be too late, and they won't have the funds to play.
btw, the attorney general of New York, and other states have come out and said that slotting fees are legal. Seagram's started this, and the New York Times or Wall Street Journal had a large article on this in the mid to late 80's, when this first started popping up, when Seagram's originally, allegedly started this, and if I remember correctly, they were mentioned in the article.
One name like C...
You *have* to look at the system requirement anyway, and you don't need to be "certified" to say that your software runs on Windows.
For that matter, who makes major software purchases at Office Depot anyway? Getting the best price is so much easier online, and unless you woke up and suddenly decided that your office had to use the next version or you were all going to die, the wait for delivery is no problem. I mean, it's one thing when a monitor goes out and you have to have it right now, but I can't conceive of any situation where you would suddenly have to go to OD and buy a shrink-wrapped title.
At any rate, I wager that this is no harm to OD because most of the software they sell is probably "big name brand" stuff. Smaller vendors that don't cert will just keep selling online and through other outlets.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
and equally possible that they are simply tired of selling some stupid camera/mouse/whatever, and having it returned because "it doesn't work in windows xp"
The Inquirer piece abruptly concludes with an alleged Office Depot memo to suppliers. The Inquirer neither explains the circumstance by which they came into possession of this alleged memo nor does it even bother to asert that the "journalist" whose name bylines the story made an attempt to contact Office Depot to verify it's veracity and authenticity.
So much for journalistic credibility. Slashdot has neither the interest or the ethics to verify facts (hiding behind their "we just post other peoples' stuff" alibi), but I guess we can now add another source to the list of online rubbish vendors.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I'm glad someone is taking a stand for lazy coding. I wish every application had its own unique look and feel. I love spending half an hour trying to figure out where all the menus are, or where the exit option is. I can't wait until uninstallers are spread throughout the system so I can spend 10 minutes trying to get rid of a piece of software. I wish that all help documents were either 8 billion line plain text files or embedded in a custom help browser.
And I am so glad that most programs are installed in subfolders named after the fucking publisher, because the first thing that jumps in my head when I think of Nero is "Ahead", and Neverwinter Nights always makes me think "Bioware".
It says nothing about application software.
Can we stop the "Will they sell Linux" stuff now.
I assume they got sick of people bringing back everything that threw up the "This is not signed" box.
That's what this mandate says to me. Keep your eyes open folks! :)
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
We may be seeing the early signs of Microsoft's stragegy to get people to switch to their new Palladium version of Windows. Think about how the Palladium version is going to be completely incompatible with existing Windows systems. Pre-Palladium software won't run at all. Documents will not be transferrable between the old and new systems. Users of the new OS will even have to buy new Palladium-equipped PCs.
On the surface this seems insane. There are 40 million people still running Win98, who have never seen fit to upgrade their OS, let alone buy new hardware. Microsoft must have a strategy for making the switch happen. Perhaps they intend to embargo customers who don't switch, controlling the supply of software and hardware. Forcing the diehards to shop at secondhand stores for things like hard drives and video cards might be the Big Lever they use to make the world go where they want it to.
How long do you want to bet it will be before non-Palladium hardware is outright illegal?
Well, I decided to try going straight to the horse's mouth, as it were (ewwww! When was the last time this nag saw their dentist?!) I just got off the phone with the store manager at my local Office Despot, and -- are you ready for this? -- I knew more about it (from reading the article) than he did! In fact, he asked me to forward him the URL (which I did).
This tells me that OD may not have even decided where they're going with this right away, outside of getting persnickety with their suppliers. I don't see it affecting "generic" stuff like cables, CD-R media, floppies, etc., nor (according to the manager I spoke with) is it likely to cause them to stop carrying stuff like Linux or FreeBSD packages.
OD is, I was told, in the market to make sure that everything they sell in the computer hardware arena works with everything else they sell in the software arena. Those dreaded "Unsigned Driver" messages are indeed a big sticking point. They're out to provide, in the manager's words, a "Total Solution" to their customers (yes, you can laugh now).
I don't dare invoke Godwin by making a comparison that I'm sure you can guess at. I will say that I've bought maybe two software packages at CompUSA in the last ten years, and I don't see that changing any time soon, especially since you couldn't PAY me to use X(tra)P(ain).
The only other thing I'll add is that, in the long run, I believe this will only increase the demand for older (as in pre-XP and, more importainly, pre-DRM) software and hardware. I think, once again, the used-computer market is about to see another metaphorical shot in the arm (at least from those who know what the frell they're doing).
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
I don't see why everyone's so up in arms about this. Windows is a proprietary platform, and should by all means take advantage of one of the strongest advantages of its nature: centralized quality control.
Say what you will about Microsoft OSes; they've become stable enough that most crashes IO see are the fault of either hardware, drivers or third-party applications. Having a seal of approval makes a lot of sense in the consumer market: it increases accountability for the platform vendor and tends to raise software quality overall--at least when properly implemented. All game console manufacturers have been doing it since forever, and it's had very few side-effects.
As long as development tools are available to anyone and the testing process is inexpensive and fair, I don't see any problems with this, and I certainly can't draw a straight line from software quality control to tighter DRM, as many of the more paranoid among us seem to be eager to do.
Where the hell does DRM come into this? The official criteria for Windows Logo Certification has nothing to do with DRM. It involes:
- Obtaining a certificate from Verisign ($400)
- Adhering to certain Windows Standards (noting that MS Office 2000 and Media Player would not pass)
That's it. There are no DRM requirements, just making sure your software a) works with the latest Windows version and follows certain standards (not very strict), and b) is code-signed to ensure it is published exactly the way you released it (signed by you, with your own key).
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
This reminds me of the show 'Tommy Boy 1995'
Tommy: "Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why do they put a guarantee on a box? Hmm, very interesting."
Ted: "I'm listening."
Tommy: "Here's how I see it. A guy puts a guarantee on the box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside."
Ted: "Yeah, makes a man feel good."
Tommy: "Course it does. Ya think if you leave that box under your pillow at night, the Guarentee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter."
Ted: "What's your point?"
Tommy: "The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Build model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times."
Ted: "But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?"
Tommy: "Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me."
Ted: "Hmm. Okay, I'll buy from you."
Tommy: "Well I...What?!"