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Mainframe Operators Needed

blueforce writes "Computer World is reporting that there's a shortage of skilled mainframe workers on the horizon. Quote: "Getting IT professionals, especially young ones, interested in learning mainframe work isn't easy." No kidding. While I've never worked on a mainframe, I have worked on AS/400's. 3 words - Mind Numb ing. Perhaps it's time for a more long-term solution to the problem. Interesting nonetheless. Who'da thunk it - a shortage in IT. What's next, COBOL?"

12 of 550 comments (clear)

  1. mainframes.. by scovetta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is lack of specialized talent. In neither undergraduate nor graduate school (graduated last year) was a single mainframe course offered. The "old timers" who work on mainframes here are their own special group-- very few people are brought in, and certainly it would be a good idea to change this, since mainframes are years ahead of PCs in terms of hardcore OS technology. If colleges didn't focus so strongly on learning VB and Office, maybe CS degrees would mean as much as they used to...

    --
    Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
  2. Why would it be mind-numbing? by Effugas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't entirely understand why mainframe work should be much more mind-numbing than point-and-click or shell-hopping. Would somebody with AS/400 experience explain what makes administration of the machines completely non-automatable, and thus requiring massive amounts of repetitive input?

    --Dan

    1. Re:Why would it be mind-numbing? by Dr+Caleb · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Mostly due to their reliability.

      I administer several AS/400's, and if it weren't due to the Win2K domain I also administer, I'd have nothing to do.

      AS/400's just run. I take an hour or so to go through the backup logs - which are mostly automated now. I just search for "Not Saved" and check that the value is zero. Anything else, I investigate. I check the logs for break in attempts and any severe errors.

      They do have some tasks that people just must do. Someone with "QSECOFR" or 'root' authority must check the message logs to make sure no processes are looped, or that pool memory isn't all used etc.

      Every once in a while the lock tab on a backup tape will get flipped (anyone who uses a Magstar 3570 know what I mean - Arrrrg!), and the machine will be in a restricted state come morning. Then all hell breaks loose until you kill the backup processes and restart subsystems so people can work. There are just some things that need a human decision.

      --
      "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
    2. Re:Why would it be mind-numbing? by bsd_usr · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Administration? I never knew there was administration to an AS/400. Ours just runs and runs and runs by magic. It doesn't have problems. It doesn't go down. It just works. Period.

      Okay, seriously. The only work I ever have to do with the AS/400 is maybe kill users off the system when I need to backup. Or, move spool files from queue to queue when a printer gets really busy printing other stuff. AS/400's are built for business number crunching and business data warehousing. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

      There are no themes to play with on an AS/400. Well, I guess you can change the color of a green screen client access session, but that's about us much themeing as you get. Why? Because it's for working, not playing.

      Most applications on the AS/400 are written in RPG which I bet most people would these days would not like to program in. I don't like it much either so I never bothered to learn it. But you can also use Java to access the data as well.

      But RPG is so powerfull on an AS/400 that you really don't need anything else. You can create screens in RPG, business reports, and more. You can also use RGP to create CGI apps for web based applications. Maybe one day I should learn RPG.

      The hardware support is like no other. Although, working with Twin Axial cabl is a pain in the ass. But, it gets the job done quite well. I have about Twin Ax 40 devices (give or take) on one AS/400. That's terminals and printers. Not counting the numerous RF scanners as well. Not sure how many of those we have. Maybe like 30 or more. I'm also not counting the network printers as well. There's like 5 of those.

      We also have another warehouse which uses our AS/400 through a fractional T-1 private line. They have RF devices there too that use the AS/400.

      It's a workhorse. Nothing more, nothing less. It might not be the fastest of them all. But who cares when you have stability and durability and all the great features of an AS/400.

      Although, like I said before AS/400's are for business. So don't expect to see them in the scientific fields and stuff. I guess for every problem there's a tool. For business, it's the AS/400.

      I guess it can be mind numbing because it isn't very glamorous or fun. It's user interface can be called ugly, but at least it's functional and fast.

    3. Re:Why would it be mind-numbing? by Nate237 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've spent the last two years trying to get up to speed on OS/390, and I'm still very green.

      It is a different world altogether.

      Take a look at Unix, DOS, and Windows. Many of the concepts are similar. You have files, directories, fairly straight forward users and groups, etc. Even MacOS is similar in some ways, like having a directory hiearchy, files, and so on.

      In the mainframe world (btw, an AS/400 is midrange, not a mainframe), its a whole different ballgame. The concept of a filesystem is not the same. You have PDSs (partitioned datasets), libraries (similar), and sequential datasets. PDSs are entities that contain members (like files). PDSs can not have PDSs in them, so there isn't a hierarchy.

      OS/390 and z/OS do have OpenEdition, which is the Unix part of the operating system. It uses HFS (hierarchical file system), which is more like the standard Unix file/directory system.

      Things are put into motion by submitting jobs. These jobs are written in JCL (job control language). The jobs are submitted to JES2 or JES3 (Job Entry System), which is the subsystem responsible for job control.

      On top of all of that, there are several other subsystems. You'll usually see security handled by IBM's RACF, CA's ACF2, or CA's TopSecret. Then there are other subsystems such as CICS, CA-IDMS, or IMS that have their own programs running within them. Then add products like MQSeries, DB2, Websphere, etc.

      You very rarely, if ever, run into someone who handles all of these components. Almost all shops have separate teams. Maybe a security team that handles RACF or ACF2, a CICS team, DB2 team, and so on.

      I've found the most difficult barrier to learning the mainframe to be the lack of comprehendible documentation and tutorials available on the web. I find myself always having to query others who have years of experience already under their belts, or having to dig deep within IBM's documentation sites, usually into several books at once.

    4. Re:Why would it be mind-numbing? by Schnapple · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Here's what's mind-numbing about programming them:

      Imagine coding all day at a screen limited to 20 lines, 80 characters wide, all capital letters, red text on a black background. This is regardless of screen resolution. You can customize colors on your Windows client, but it's pretty much the same. I've downloaded programs into text files to study them for sanity's sake before.

      Imagine no debugging. Just hardcoded write statements.

      Imagine jumping through 1,000 loopholes to recreate test data, only to discover too late that the production data still doesn't work - your code is wrong.

      Imagine top down programming. Structured? Sorta. No object-oriented nature at all. Being punished by people thirty years older than you for trying to use a function or some reusable code. Make a change to a program? Good - now change the 10 others sorta like it.

      Now imagine that suddenly your clientele (college students in my case) suddenly want all their data to be accessible via the web. Now do you chuck the old busted system? No, you instead place more systems on top of it to interface it with your web system. Synchronization? Forget about it. Transactional data over the web? Not gonna happen.

      I'm 26. My colleagues are dinosaurs. I'm getting out as soon as I can. I'm not sure what's gonna happen to this situation in the long run but I don't care.

      My colleague across the room from me is thirty years older than me, is nursing a bad back and refuses to learn anything new. He's the guy with a hammer who sees everything as a nail. He has a bizarre theory that the bad economy is good because it means the COBOL programmers of the world shall rise again (I'm pretty sure JFK and Roswell factor into his theory somewhere). Sad thing is he may be right - only they're rising in India.

    5. Re:Why would it be mind-numbing? by MrPCsGhost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a person complaining about a mainframer refusing to learn anything new? I'm incensed. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

      I'm 34, an administrator on a z900 running OS390, and it rocks. Please explain what's tough about creating test data? I think we get to the root of the problem - "your code is wrong".

      EVERYTHING you complained about above pertains to your coding and the language (COBOL), NOT the platform. On my box, you can do COBOL, Assembler, Java, C, C++, Perl, you name it. All the "programmers" depend on their IDEs to develop their code - they wouldn't know what's going on in there if you gave them a dump. Ooh! Wait! The dump isn't in Java! I'm confused! It's using numbers! What kind of wacky computer is this?

      I've determined that Moore's law is not driven by technical innovation, but simply by the need to keep up with shitty programming.

      I apologize, but this really cheeses me off.

    6. Re:Why would it be mind-numbing? by WiPEOUT · · Score: 4, Informative

      Now imagine that suddenly your clientele (college students in my case) suddenly want all their data to be accessible via the web. Now do you chuck the old busted system? No, you instead place more systems on top of it to interface it with your web system. Synchronization? Forget about it. Transactional data over the web? Not gonna happen.

      Seeing as my job these last few years has been designing, building and supporting a system that provides web-based access to mainframe transactions, I recommend you do a little more investigation before quitting. Let me give you a starting point: COM Transaction Integrator on Microsoft SNA Server/Host Integration Server.

  3. Mainframe Operators by raydobbs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem is that no one teaches mainframe operations in schools, you basically need to learn by being dropped into it - and not screwing up everything. Fewer and fewer businesses are willing to invest in promising new talent to learn these legacy systems, but their own mainframe gurus are retiring or dying off - so eventually this corporations will 'bleed out' skill-wise.

    And no, the mainframe cannot be replaced by a client-server solution. I listened to this moron chant throughout school - mainframes are not dead. REALITY CHECK - there are just some applications where a mainframe makes more sense. Mainframes can handle enormous amounts of data without having to break it up for a cluster, or without being bogged down with I/O like most client-server type solutions. Mainframes are great when you need to handle databases with tons of information in it - and you need to consistantly dig through it. Most machines cannot handle it, and will buckle. Mainframes almost never buckle, unless you are testing new stuff on them (naughty newbie - that's what a test LPAR is for) or you do funky things to them.

  4. Only part of the issue by msobkow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's only part of the issue. I didn't learn squat about sysadmin tasks in University, because the focus is on teaching you how to think about software development, not how to use a particular tool or platform -- that's what tech schools are for.

    A far bigger issue, as was already pointed out, is the mind-numbing tedium of being a mainframe operator. Alas, the same applies to being an operator on any system, as your main job is to swap media for backups, stock the print servers, and act as remote fingers when support staff call in on a page.

    Regardless of platform, the only operators I knew who were happy with the job were middle-aged people who were more concerned about job stability than job challenge/fullfillment. Many of them were highly skilled, knew more about the systems than the developers, and would have made good developers. They just didn't want the pressure and insecurity that comes outside the data center.

    As to "learning VB and Office", it sounds more like a tech school than a university. I've never heard of VB or Office being considered part of the programming course on a university campus. I have seen it offered as a half-credit course to help out students who have no prior experience with basic office automation tools, but who need the basics in order to be able to prepare and submit their coursework.

    Another issue with getting people to consider a career as an operator is that the job stability is a smokescreen. Who wants to take a job for lower pay, that has little or no challenge to it, requires dealing with pissed-off user managers, and is subject to termination whenever someone gets a brain-fart about "saving" by outsourcing?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  5. Simple obvious answer: by burgburgburg · · Score: 5, Funny
    Add some Windows code:

    Things too reliable? Predictable? Functional? Secure? Just can't find anything to do?

    Windowsize it!
    Just ten lines of Windows code will have you scrambling for hours to try and figure out what in the heck has gone wrong!
    Add twenty lines of Windows code and you've got a month worth of worries on your hands!
    And for the truly daring: A mission-critical Windows application!
    Kiss the wife and kids goodbye! You'll never eat/sleep/bathe in peace again!

    Windowsize it!
    (Not approved for those with heart conditions/risk of stroke/high blood pressure/pregnant)

  6. Its Called an ENTERPRISE SERVER by Kefaa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you compare MVS to UNIX to Linux, and do the math, MVS wins big. Billions of lines of mainframe investment are not going anywhere soon. Billions were spent on making legacy systems Y2k compliant, now that the investment has been made, companies are finding it difficult to call for a re-write.

    IBM saw this coming a while back. The 390 mainframes were renamed Enterprise Server (and we all snickered). However, the enterprise server is now running Linux, Websphere, integration services, websites, ASPs, and the legacy systems with incredible stability.

    It is difficult to find operators because in many mainframe shops the job consists of running print jobs and contacting support staff when alerts occur. It is no longer a career. It would improve if companies started treating it like a first step. Hire some college students or entry level employees and provide a career path to greater opportunity. Isn't that what we all want?