Posted by
CowboyNeal
on from the diary-of-a-madman dept.
bsadler writes "There is a pretty interesting article on the psychology of a programmer over at devx. It includes some suggestions that a manager might take into account when dealing with programmers. Maybe my boss will finally give me my own office."
On Saturday the Building is MINE!
by
grahamkg
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It's my building and it is empty. YAY! I have virtually no distractions. I can design, program, analyze without interruptions from meetings or phone calls. It's the best workday of the week.
(/. isn't a distraction, btw. It is part of the spin-up process for me.;-))
The su (spouse unit/super user) and I changed our schedules when our kid was born. The su works part time and I work full time, including Saturdays for 10 hours. Only 23 of my work hours are during "normal business hours". I've done it for over 4 years, and in that time I've done so well that I've been promoted. Today I'm a principle investigator on a research project.
The bottom line is that companies can realize considerable gains by accommodating creative people.
I think you overgeneralise. Some development tasks (writing dumb database front-ends, principally) require little creative input. However, much of the back-end stuff requires creativity. Writing a good UI requires creativity. Even designing good database schemas requires creativity.
It's true that a significant fraction of "software development" today just involves using VB, Java and/or web scripting to put together McDatabase code, and that's probably fairly easily automated. But there's a whole world, a much larger world, of programming beyond that, where skill and creativity are still far more important than ability to read a cookbook.
-- If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Re:...her?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
Didn't bother me. What really gets my goat is when people do the he/she him/her hirself, hirs thing. But yes, using the 3rd person plural would solve the problem. However, despite its utility and lack of drawbacks, we are taught vehemently in the United States that this is *incorrect* english.
Psuedoscience
by
wizzums
·
· Score: 5, Informative
A programmer's ability to focus on a single task for long periods to the exclusion of all else has led some people to comment on similar behavior in autistics (Asperger's Disorder), and to wonder whether most programmers are mildly autistic. I would be surprised if most programmers were autistic--our concentration is too easily broken.
I particularly like how this fellow uses Autism as a reason, then clarifies it by noting a single branch of the entire syndrome as if that's what it's *really* called, and finishes up his great assumption by explaining that autistics must have high concentration levels.
While they're in the same psychological realm, he's trying to refer to ADD.. not Autism.
From ADD.org "You get one idea and you have to act on it, and then, what do you know, but you've got another idea before you've finished up with the first one, and so you go for that one, but of course a third idea intercepts the second, and you just have to follow that one, and pretty soon people are calling you disorganized and impulsive and all sorts of impolite words that miss the point completely."
Autism on the other hand is the complete inability to concentrate on ANY task for short periods of time. Autism is associated with Stims, self stimulatory behaviour. Asperger's Syndrome is a "mild" form of Autism that tends to affect mostly boys. Note that there is still a lack of common sense associated with this. Simply being quirky is not Asperger's.
A child with ADD is more than likely able to understand you when you tell him to "sit still, eat your dinner," while a child with Autism might just flick his fork around continuously while he's eating.
Credibility: I work with Autistic children, and ironically, have been diagnosed with ADD.
When creative people work on making something new, they often enter a mental state where things just flow. This is a highly desirable state, both for the programmer themself and for the organisation that profits by their labors.
This is grammatically incorrect. You are talking about a singular programmer, hence "himself/herself" and "his/her" labors. You would need to use "both for the programmers themselves..."
(Ducks flying rotten tomato)
-- There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Re:No longer true
by
Bugmaster
·
· Score: 2, Informative
And if you think that VB programming is just about dragging widgets around a screen and dropping them on a form, you obviously don't know much about VB.
Actually, I used to code VB for a living (shame on me), back when it was VB4 or whatever. What are they up to now, 7 ? Anyway, all I needed to do was design some forms, double-click their properties, and add event handlers so that the "Ok" button closes the form. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that software is smart enough to do this now -- but the process is hardly creative. I am sure that some creative programs can be (and have been) written even in VB; my argument is simply that such programs are no longer really needed.
The Japanese and Chinese believe the way you do, which is why they have almost zero innovation.
Actually, unless I am mistaken, Japan leads US at least 3-5 years in technology, and has done so for a while. For example, can you name the top gaming consoles on the market today ? Or any other electronics for that matter ? How many people in the US use SMS as a primary means of communication ? I could give more examples, but you probably see my point. The Chinese... well... they are a totalitarian communist government (which has been desperately trying to improve lately). Any kind of innovation from them would be a surprise, for this reason.
That's what they said about physics back around the turn of the century, before Bohr and Planck and Einstein blew that load of horse hockey out of the water.
Read my comment again. I specifically stated that research is one area where real innovation and creativity are needed. But, in a commercial setting, most programming can be done by pluggable drone-units. It's the same thing with physics, actually -- physics research requires a lot of intelligence, but steel mills, fab plants, power substations etc. today are mostly automated.
The notion that "all the important discoveries" in CS have already been done would be funny if it didn't highlight the poster's ignorance so well.
I will re-iterate my point just in case you skipped over most of my comment. I was speaking about the same thing that the article concerned itself with: programming in a commercial setting. Programming research, like math research, will be with us forever -- but that's not the point.
-- >|<*:=
Walk in the Woods
by
jefu
·
· Score: 2, Informative
When I get stuck on a problem a walk or bike ride is about the best thing I can do to get unstuck. But most people in industry don't understand that. There was just no way to account for time spent walking in the woods. But without walking in the woods, it would often take me several (even many) times as long to solve the problem. The corporation had the notion that time spent unproductively in the office was more valuable than time spent productively elsewhere.
Worse yet, at one point I had to account for every fifteen minutes of work on a time card and it was seriously expected that you would do that within a few minutes of the time noted.
Academia is better, but in my last job I had an office on a public hall and the noise from the hall and the noise from the very noisy ventilation fan were a wonderful discouragement to thought.
Re:My experiences of programmers
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
Sorry, I only have a bit over 3 years as a professional programmer; perhaps when I get more, I'll see things differently, but for now, here's what I've seen of my industry..
1) Actually, I've found that the programmers are often the only people here doing insane hours. QA will sometimes be around for part of it, but I and my fellow programmers do weeks, if not months, of 18-hour days trying to meet deadlines. Yes, we propose our deadlines (though within reason - often deadlines are handed down from management). On the other hand, the target is moving! I say I'll do X, Y, and Z for March 5th. Then, on Feb 26th, I'm told that A, B, C, D, E, and F are also due for that same deadline. Oh, and rework X and Z while I'm at it - they've been done since Feb 1st, but no one mentioned that they now want them to work differently.
2) I don't know what part of the industry you're with. If I put something in SourceSafe that doesn't compile, the Programmers are the first to jump all over me for checking in bad code.
3) We DO try to work in slippage - I know that my current Programming Lead marks up everyone's time estimates by 1.5x to 2x, depending on the programmer. But that doesn't always help - see my issue about the moving target from (1).
4) Oh? Again, I wonder what part of the industry you work with - one of our major ideas here is "don't reinvent the wheel". You think we want to re-code something that is already available? That's just extra strain on our wrists - it's always much better to use a pre-made solution, finishing your task ahead of time and under schedule, looking like a hero.
5) You're right - I don't know of any programmer that requests a 15-minute nap at 2pm. Perhaps this author's examples of showers in offices and naps in the afternoon are bad ones. But hell - if you think programmers have it so good, and get whatever little whims they have granted, why don't you program? See it from the other side. I'll tell you this - if you try to work QA hours as a programmer, I have a feeling that you'll quickly be asked by management to start working as a member of the team, or start looking for a new job.
I agree, you can bring creativity to most any job. But that isn't the point of statements about how long it takes programmers to get back into the "zone", or how bad it is if a programmer's "flow" is broken. As a typist, anyone can only convert thoughts to text so quickly. You can always think much faster, and you can think of the overall scheme much faster still. So if I have my Big Idea, of which I'm currently coding line 47, and someone comes up and asks me to help them debug an art issue, what happens? I didn't get a chance to write my Big Idea down, so I'll lose it. Yes, I can come up with it again, and the code that I had written down so far does help, but still - that's exactly the ramp-up time that this author is talking about. Yes, you can make the same argument about artists, and you know what? We try very hard not to interrupt them as they work. They seem to feel that they can interrupt programmers at any time, however, along with most anyone else at the company.
Why is it that if someone writes up "programmers need quiet time", someone will write back "programmers are unprofessional"? I didn't ask this author to write that I need a shower in my office. I do appreciate that the company has showers in the building, though, since every time we have a deadline, I find that I'm generally stuck here so long that I might as well spend the night - along with several other programmers.
Now, I'll get back to work (yes, on a Saturday, just a few hours after I left here yesterday) because I have a deadline coming up, which just had its requirements changed..
Re:Please don't use 'she' when you mean 'he'.
by
Bryan-Dollery
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I didn't mean 'he', and I'm not talking about babysitters.
Can you think of any reason for my using the feminine here, other than ignorance? (there is a reason)
BD
This is grammatically incorrect. You are talking about a singular programmer, hence "himself/herself" and "his/her" labors. You would need to use "both for the programmers themselves..."
(Ducks flying rotten tomato)
Oh no you don't.
Using the plural pronoun to refer to a single person of unspecified gender is an old and honorable pattern in English, not a newfangled bit of degeneracy or a politically correct plot to avoid sexism (though it often serves the latter purpose). People who insist that "Everyone has brought his own lunch" is the only correct form do not reflect the usage of centuries of fine writers.
-- If you open yourself to the foo,
You and foo become one.
Re:...her?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
This is grammatically incorrect...
Maybe not in American English, but in British English and Australian English it is commonplace, it is taught in schools, and last but not least, it is gramatically correct.
Why people insist that it is "clumsy" I do not know; there is nothing clumsy about it.
Peopleware
by
atlasheavy
·
· Score: 2, Informative
If you're interested in this topic I highly recommend the book Peopleware by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister. It's the same basic concept as this article, but (at about 250 pages) far more in-depth. You can buy it on amazon.com for $34. An interesting sidenote here is that Microsoft believes very strongly in these principles, which is why they maximize the number of employees who get offices, have shower facilities throughout campus, allow people to work when and where they want to, etc.
Being my employer can be a lil weird but really I don't ask for much. I don't want to make huge sums of money or get all kinds of benefits that normal employees want. Most of that stuff is utterly useless to me.
First thing I want is leeway of when I come and go. I am not especially good at keeping track of time when I'm thinking so yes I might show up at work 15 minutes late and leave three hours late. I tend to wander around when I'm thinking so I might just wander out for a walk at anytime or maybe take lunch at some weird time or not take lunch at all. As long as my work is getting done don't bitch at me for these things.
Give me vacations when I want them. I don't even ask for paid vacations. I just need the ability to go take a 3 or 4 day weekend sometimes. Don't give all other employees vacations but deny me mine. The worst I had was a travel agency I programmed for.. they sent all new employees to Italy as soon as they were hired.. except for the couple of us that were programmers. That just really sucked. I really liked working there and would work extremely hard for them but things like that really left a sour taste.
Don't lay me off when the project is over. This is probably the worst. I'm so freaking paranoid now because I take jobs that aren't labeled as per project.. then when the project is over.. after working my ass off to get it done well and done quick.. I'm let go. It's hard to be loyal if you can't trust your employer and it's hard to work your ass off for someone you expect to stab you in the back. If the job is only for the length of a project then say so upfront.
Put up with the fact that I'm weird and not especially good at socializing. Yes, I may wear things ranging from neon orange sweat pants and ratty old tshirts to a purple pinstripe suit but it doesn't hurt anyone. Don't think I'm anti-social just because I don't talk a lot over the water cooler or go out drinking with the guys after work. I'm a busy guy - working for you - so appreciate my effort. If you want me to go out after work with the guys then invite me - in person - several times. A lot of times I'll simply forget anyone invited me unless they ask more than once. It gets lost in there some place between lines of source code. Really go look.. I've been known to make notes such as that as comments in the code I'm working on. Don't tell me that everyone hates me and thinks I'm a jerk because I never hang out. Really not very motivational.
This guys idea about letting the employee pick their own furniture is good. Especially the bit about the chairs. I'm a big guy (6'6, 300lbs) and normal chairs just don't cut it. Give me a small budget for office supplies too. I don't like filling out forms because I need a place to hang printouts. Trying to explain my needs to a none programer is to much effort.
Give me a well soundproofed room. Music helps me program - especially loud music. I don't know why but it does and I'm certainly not the only programmer to have noticed. Having my own office is very motivational to me and if it's well designed I can play my music and not bother others.
Keep a kitchen and bathroom nearby. If I have to go out of my way to get a drink or take a leak then I'll probably just wait til after work which isn't good for concentration.
Don't call my desk every five minutes for no real reason. The phone ringing tends to bother me.
If I'm on call then why not give me a cellphone allowance? That way I can pick the one I want and not have to pay for it out of my own pocket. That way I can pay the bills directly so if I use it as my personal phone too I don't have to explain those calls to my boss. Swap my on-call status with somebody else now and then so I can go on short vacations.
If I'm sick or can't get to work because of the weather then let me work from home. Telecommuting is a good way not to miss days I otherwise would. I tend to get sick easily so being able to work even when sick is a big thing for me. Give me an allowance for broadba
-- At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Slashdot Mirror
(/. isn't a distraction, btw. It is part of the spin-up process for me. ;-))
The su (spouse unit/super user) and I changed our schedules when our kid was born. The su works part time and I work full time, including Saturdays for 10 hours. Only 23 of my work hours are during "normal business hours". I've done it for over 4 years, and in that time I've done so well that I've been promoted. Today I'm a principle investigator on a research project.
The bottom line is that companies can realize considerable gains by accommodating creative people.
Graham
Linux - Fast Pane Relief
I think you overgeneralise. Some development tasks (writing dumb database front-ends, principally) require little creative input. However, much of the back-end stuff requires creativity. Writing a good UI requires creativity. Even designing good database schemas requires creativity.
It's true that a significant fraction of "software development" today just involves using VB, Java and/or web scripting to put together McDatabase code, and that's probably fairly easily automated. But there's a whole world, a much larger world, of programming beyond that, where skill and creativity are still far more important than ability to read a cookbook.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Didn't bother me. What really gets my goat is when people do the he/she him/her hirself, hirs thing. But yes, using the 3rd person plural would solve the problem. However, despite its utility and lack of drawbacks, we are taught vehemently in the United States that this is *incorrect* english.
I particularly like how this fellow uses Autism as a reason, then clarifies it by noting a single branch of the entire syndrome as if that's what it's *really* called, and finishes up his great assumption by explaining that autistics must have high concentration levels.
While they're in the same psychological realm, he's trying to refer to ADD.. not Autism.
From ADD.org
"You get one idea and you have to act on it, and then, what do you know, but you've got another idea before you've finished up with the first one, and so you go for that one, but of course a third idea intercepts the second, and you just have to follow that one, and pretty soon people are calling you disorganized and impulsive and all sorts of impolite words that miss the point completely."
Autism on the other hand is the complete inability to concentrate on ANY task for short periods of time. Autism is associated with Stims, self stimulatory behaviour. Asperger's Syndrome is a "mild" form of Autism that tends to affect mostly boys. Note that there is still a lack of common sense associated with this. Simply being quirky is not Asperger's.
A child with ADD is more than likely able to understand you when you tell him to "sit still, eat your dinner," while a child with Autism might just flick his fork around continuously while he's eating.
Credibility: I work with Autistic children, and ironically, have been diagnosed with ADD.
When creative people work on making something new, they often enter a mental state where things just flow. This is a highly desirable state, both for the programmer themself and for the organisation that profits by their labors.
This is grammatically incorrect. You are talking about a singular programmer, hence "himself/herself" and "his/her" labors. You would need to use "both for the programmers themselves..."
(Ducks flying rotten tomato)
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
>|<*:=
Worse yet, at one point I had to account for every fifteen minutes of work on a time card and it was seriously expected that you would do that within a few minutes of the time noted.
Academia is better, but in my last job I had an office on a public hall and the noise from the hall and the noise from the very noisy ventilation fan were a wonderful discouragement to thought.
Sorry, I only have a bit over 3 years as a professional programmer; perhaps when I get more, I'll see things differently, but for now, here's what I've seen of my industry.. 1) Actually, I've found that the programmers are often the only people here doing insane hours. QA will sometimes be around for part of it, but I and my fellow programmers do weeks, if not months, of 18-hour days trying to meet deadlines. Yes, we propose our deadlines (though within reason - often deadlines are handed down from management). On the other hand, the target is moving! I say I'll do X, Y, and Z for March 5th. Then, on Feb 26th, I'm told that A, B, C, D, E, and F are also due for that same deadline. Oh, and rework X and Z while I'm at it - they've been done since Feb 1st, but no one mentioned that they now want them to work differently. 2) I don't know what part of the industry you're with. If I put something in SourceSafe that doesn't compile, the Programmers are the first to jump all over me for checking in bad code. 3) We DO try to work in slippage - I know that my current Programming Lead marks up everyone's time estimates by 1.5x to 2x, depending on the programmer. But that doesn't always help - see my issue about the moving target from (1). 4) Oh? Again, I wonder what part of the industry you work with - one of our major ideas here is "don't reinvent the wheel". You think we want to re-code something that is already available? That's just extra strain on our wrists - it's always much better to use a pre-made solution, finishing your task ahead of time and under schedule, looking like a hero. 5) You're right - I don't know of any programmer that requests a 15-minute nap at 2pm. Perhaps this author's examples of showers in offices and naps in the afternoon are bad ones. But hell - if you think programmers have it so good, and get whatever little whims they have granted, why don't you program? See it from the other side. I'll tell you this - if you try to work QA hours as a programmer, I have a feeling that you'll quickly be asked by management to start working as a member of the team, or start looking for a new job. I agree, you can bring creativity to most any job. But that isn't the point of statements about how long it takes programmers to get back into the "zone", or how bad it is if a programmer's "flow" is broken. As a typist, anyone can only convert thoughts to text so quickly. You can always think much faster, and you can think of the overall scheme much faster still. So if I have my Big Idea, of which I'm currently coding line 47, and someone comes up and asks me to help them debug an art issue, what happens? I didn't get a chance to write my Big Idea down, so I'll lose it. Yes, I can come up with it again, and the code that I had written down so far does help, but still - that's exactly the ramp-up time that this author is talking about. Yes, you can make the same argument about artists, and you know what? We try very hard not to interrupt them as they work. They seem to feel that they can interrupt programmers at any time, however, along with most anyone else at the company. Why is it that if someone writes up "programmers need quiet time", someone will write back "programmers are unprofessional"? I didn't ask this author to write that I need a shower in my office. I do appreciate that the company has showers in the building, though, since every time we have a deadline, I find that I'm generally stuck here so long that I might as well spend the night - along with several other programmers. Now, I'll get back to work (yes, on a Saturday, just a few hours after I left here yesterday) because I have a deadline coming up, which just had its requirements changed..
I didn't mean 'he', and I'm not talking about babysitters. Can you think of any reason for my using the feminine here, other than ignorance? (there is a reason) BD
This is grammatically incorrect. You are talking about a singular programmer, hence "himself/herself" and "his/her" labors. You would need to use "both for the programmers themselves..."
(Ducks flying rotten tomato)
Oh no you don't.
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/they.html
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
This is grammatically incorrect...
Maybe not in American English, but in British English and Australian English it is commonplace, it is taught in schools, and last but not least, it is gramatically correct.
Why people insist that it is "clumsy" I do not know; there is nothing clumsy about it.
If you're interested in this topic I highly recommend the book Peopleware by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister. It's the same basic concept as this article, but (at about 250 pages) far more in-depth. You can buy it on amazon.com for $34. An interesting sidenote here is that Microsoft believes very strongly in these principles, which is why they maximize the number of employees who get offices, have shower facilities throughout campus, allow people to work when and where they want to, etc.
iRooster, the Mac OS X a
Being my employer can be a lil weird but really I don't ask for much. I don't want to make huge sums of money or get all kinds of benefits that normal employees want. Most of that stuff is utterly useless to me.
First thing I want is leeway of when I come and go. I am not especially good at keeping track of time when I'm thinking so yes I might show up at work 15 minutes late and leave three hours late. I tend to wander around when I'm thinking so I might just wander out for a walk at anytime or maybe take lunch at some weird time or not take lunch at all. As long as my work is getting done don't bitch at me for these things.
Give me vacations when I want them. I don't even ask for paid vacations. I just need the ability to go take a 3 or 4 day weekend sometimes. Don't give all other employees vacations but deny me mine. The worst I had was a travel agency I programmed for.. they sent all new employees to Italy as soon as they were hired.. except for the couple of us that were programmers. That just really sucked. I really liked working there and would work extremely hard for them but things like that really left a sour taste.
Don't lay me off when the project is over. This is probably the worst. I'm so freaking paranoid now because I take jobs that aren't labeled as per project.. then when the project is over.. after working my ass off to get it done well and done quick.. I'm let go. It's hard to be loyal if you can't trust your employer and it's hard to work your ass off for someone you expect to stab you in the back. If the job is only for the length of a project then say so upfront.
Put up with the fact that I'm weird and not especially good at socializing. Yes, I may wear things ranging from neon orange sweat pants and ratty old tshirts to a purple pinstripe suit but it doesn't hurt anyone. Don't think I'm anti-social just because I don't talk a lot over the water cooler or go out drinking with the guys after work. I'm a busy guy - working for you - so appreciate my effort. If you want me to go out after work with the guys then invite me - in person - several times. A lot of times I'll simply forget anyone invited me unless they ask more than once. It gets lost in there some place between lines of source code. Really go look.. I've been known to make notes such as that as comments in the code I'm working on. Don't tell me that everyone hates me and thinks I'm a jerk because I never hang out. Really not very motivational.
This guys idea about letting the employee pick their own furniture is good. Especially the bit about the chairs. I'm a big guy (6'6, 300lbs) and normal chairs just don't cut it. Give me a small budget for office supplies too. I don't like filling out forms because I need a place to hang printouts. Trying to explain my needs to a none programer is to much effort.
Give me a well soundproofed room. Music helps me program - especially loud music. I don't know why but it does and I'm certainly not the only programmer to have noticed. Having my own office is very motivational to me and if it's well designed I can play my music and not bother others.
Keep a kitchen and bathroom nearby. If I have to go out of my way to get a drink or take a leak then I'll probably just wait til after work which isn't good for concentration.
Don't call my desk every five minutes for no real reason. The phone ringing tends to bother me.
If I'm on call then why not give me a cellphone allowance? That way I can pick the one I want and not have to pay for it out of my own pocket. That way I can pay the bills directly so if I use it as my personal phone too I don't have to explain those calls to my boss. Swap my on-call status with somebody else now and then so I can go on short vacations.
If I'm sick or can't get to work because of the weather then let me work from home. Telecommuting is a good way not to miss days I otherwise would. I tend to get sick easily so being able to work even when sick is a big thing for me. Give me an allowance for broadba
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.