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Last-Mile Fiber Optic

Johnny Mnemonic writes "The newsletter "The Town Paper" tracks the development of "traditional" new developments--developments with integrated shopping, parks, and that are pedestrian friendly. Their recent issue has an article that describes a new community in Issaquah WA that has, among it's interesting features: a wired LAN in every home, free community Intranet, and a choice for a fiber optic connection. It is probably no coincidence that Microsoft is planning on building 3 million square feet of office space there. How much is a pre-wired house worth to you? What will this do for community building?"

19 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. Good thinking by cubal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a pretty good plan--the "last mile" has always been the slow point in internet connections.

    This will also do wonders for the local economy; having built-in fiber will be a massive attraction to tech businesses. I daresay we'll be seeing a lot more of this sort of thing from now on.

    1. Re:Good thinking by Michael+Hunt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem with having incredibly fast last mile is that you need incredibly, incredibly fast upstream connectivity. For a stub system (i.e. a system which won't allow transit across itself,) the usual figures quoted are 16:1 contention; that is, sum(CPE bandwidth)/16.

      For a transit system (a system which provides connectivity between other systems/networks,) peering bandwidth should not exceed intra-system bandwidth, but also needs to be great enough that systems who use you as a transit network actually do wind up getting the fastest path, as BGP has no concept of 'speed' as a metric.

      Given that this idea is proposing to deploy fibre at (i would assume) at least 10Mb to the home, the upstream bandwidth will almost certainly need to be in the gigabits for this to be useful. Transit infrastructure will likely also need to be upgraded if too many smaller ISPs start rolling this out.

      I don't think the networking infrastructure we have necessarily has the capacity right now. Perhaps when DWDM becomes more commonplace, with each run of Single mode carrying 100s of gigabits, but for now I think it's really only a pipe dream.

      Another idea worth considering is the 'script kiddie terrorist' argument. If you give uncapped 10Mb access to every script kiddie on your block, you'll need to make sure that everything else scales proportionally, or script kiddie targets will suffer an exponentially worse fate.

    2. Re:Good thinking by madfgurtbn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with having incredibly fast last mile is that you need incredibly, incredibly fast upstream connectivity

      Uh, yeah, isn't that the point?

      Not to be glib, but the network doens't grow symmetrically. There are always going to be bottlenecks, but there are always going to be improvements. When you build a new apartment complex, it makes sense to assume that the permanent network infrastructure in the building should, where economically feasible, be overbuilt as much as possible.

      It will be a while, if ever, before they can use all of their bandwidth, but when the time comes they are ready, eh.

      --
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  2. Interesting... by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always wondered why urban comunities didn't have all the wiring and fiber available to the residents. Large apartment buildings next to eachother would probably find it cheaper to have one large connection into the complexes and hire a network technican, than to have separate service providers (DSL, cable, etc) for each resident..

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    1. Re:Interesting... by guacamolefoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I always wondered why urban comunities didn't have all the wiring and fiber available to the residents

      1. Retrofitting the buildings is expensive - it is not just a matter of running fiber to buildings -- ethernet jacks need to be put into rooms in apartments and cabling needs to be arranged. Who will manage the wire closet, etc.

      2. Not everyone wants/uses the service, so landlords are not necessarily going to spring for the cost

      3. Residential services are not where the money is

      Large apartment buildings next to eachother would probably find it cheaper to have one large connection into the complexes and hire a network technican

      You don't know many apartment operators, obviously. Even the large companies (mostly REITs) are extraordinarily conservative operators who do not change their ways of doing business easily. Especially post-bubble, most are likely to look at other amenities first, such as security, fitness centers, etc. Putting in technology infrastructure, which will likely involve additional costs, is not going to be an easy sell.

      I think some bigger aparment REITs may have been doing deals with some of the CLECs in the 90's, but I just don't see a tremendous desire by internet companies to chase the consumer in this manner. They just don't pay enough, and fiber infrastructure isn't exactly cheap.

      I can see this model working in some local environments, but as a business model, I can say pretty comfortably that there just is not much money there to be chased when you are talking about mega bandwidth to residences. Some people would pay big bucks, but most folks would say fuck it and go with the ILEC's $45 DSL or the cable company's $30 plan. Nobody will make money (today) selling fiber connections for $30 or selling $300 fiber connections to residences.

      Remember -- it's all about the "Profit!!"

      GF.

    2. Re:Interesting... by doktor-hladnjak · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I used to live in a large student co-op and this was something pretty much every house (as far as I know) did. At some point, our ISP went bankrupt and whoever bought it at that point decided not to continue their DSL services. As a "temporary" solution we ended up on a standard SBC residential DSL line. Divided 37 or so ways it was quite cheap, but there were some issues:

      - when somebody switched on Kazaa, everyone's connection came almost to a standstill
      - we had to wire the house ourselves to make it cost efficient
      - somebody had to maintain everything

      To me it seems like the biggest problem in an apartment complex or neighborhood would be the last issue. Who maintains it? For us, it was essentially somebody's job to tend to it (just like it was somebody's job to wash dishes on Sunday morning). Anybody know how this happens in these cases we're talking about? Is there a benevolent net admin (dictator) or do people pay a fee to some 3rd party?

    3. Re:Interesting... by guacamolefoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In Japan, almost all large apartment blocks being built these days have either FTTH or CATV Internet connectivity as standard. You'd be surprised what can happen when enough people ask for it. Your attitude is self-defeating.

      One: Japan is not the United States. What works there may or may not work here. First, the Japanese have density of population that is incomprehensible to the average American. This makes costs much lower per home passed, and it makes FTTH feasible. There are not too many "average" Japanese who live in sprawling subdivisions. Politics of development aside, the simple fact is that their living arrangements are comepletly different, and it is an apples to oranges comparison.

      Two: The views in my prior post are the general consensus in the real estate and CLEC world. I'm not sure what you mean by the "Your attitude is self-defeating" comment. If there's money to be made, I'm more than happy to be the onne to make it.

      On the other hand, I do not exactly see spending thousands of dollars to pass homes with fiber in the hopes of making maybe $25-30 gross per month as being a path to riches. YMMV. Nobody is stopping you from trying to do it with your money, pal.

      GF.

    4. Re:Interesting... by guacamolefoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually was a company a couple of years ago that did this called Darwin Networks. They ran a pretty good service until they went bankrupt.

      Natural selection at work, I guess.

      GF.

  3. Oh boy, and look at the beautiful duck pond! by rdewald · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since I have wired every dwelling I have occupied with cat5 and a patch panel since 1986, this doesn't seem so much forward looking to me as finally catching up. I wonder how the community Intranet will be administered, if it is anything like the "community parks" these developments usually include to sell the units, then chances are it is going to be left to virtually grow over with weeds (unpatched servers, slow hubs/switches) after the units have been purchased. Of course, since Microsoft is moving in, it might become yet another way to promote MSN.

    Of course, it seems more cost-effective to just blanket the area with Wi-Fi...

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  4. New? Not really... by httpamphibio.us · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a very common thing in Washington, especially in Issaquah. I'm not sure if I've visted this location, but I went to one like it in the same area... they had a little courtyard type deal with a little cafe, a couple restaurants, a grocery store, and a video rental place. There is also complete excersize and sports facilites, a community garden, a large playground, etc. The tie-in with Microsoft only makes sense... nearly everyone that lives there is somehow involved with them.

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    sig.
  5. Not much by Apreche · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A pre-wired house isn't worth much, to a geek like me. To someone else it's probably worth a lot.

    The reason? Well, being a geek I would want my wires in a very specific configuration just for me. I would be pissed off about having the jack in the wrong part of the wall. I wouldn't like having to modify my computing to match the house. I want the house to match the way I like to do things. Ideally I would have one room of the house with many computers in it and many cables. I would have an office with one computer in it, wired. Every other room in the house woul be accomodated by a single WAP.

    If it's expensive fiber or a configuration I have to adapt to, rather than one that adapts to me I wont like it.

    Non geek people would love it though, if they can get it to work.

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  6. Re:New? Not really... by Ken@WearableTech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Did someone try this around the turn of the century with the works even being paid in company script to be used in company stores?

  7. Missing the point... by SonicBurst · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of course, it seems more cost-effective to just blanket the area with Wi-Fi...

    Blanketing the area with Wi-Fi misses the point behind this....ie:easily upgradeable last mile delivery. Current Wi-Fi speeds are great for small areas, but shared 11Mbit (or 54 or whatever) will only last so long. Fiber, however, has nearly unlimited capacity, for all intents and purposes.

    Put Wi-Fi in, and you'll be replacing it in 5 or 6 years due to larger bandwidth needs. Use fiber, and in 5-6 years you'll STILL be thinking how to saturate that link. Oh, and BTW, Cat 5 hasn't been around since '86 :) Just picking! I know what you meant!

    --

    Geek used to be a four letter word. Now it's a six-figure one.
  8. Fibre is just a network cable, relax guys... by coupland · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For some reason people always mistake the word "fibre" for nirvana, computing paradise, the valhalla of networking. Fact is I've got cable internet and it can handle up to 10Mbps, far more than they actually give me. I'd kill for a 10Mbit link, let alone 100Mbit. The thing that kills you isn't the physical layer, it's the routing and throttling your ISP does -- fibre in itself changes nothing. Give me cable internet with fast routing and no bandwidth caps over fibre any day...

  9. The neighborhood intranet by miketang16 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That would be quite interesting. I'd have to say gaming would rock, but I sure hope all the Joe Windows users know how to use Windows Update...

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  10. Samples of Linux? by Speare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On the first month of home sales, Red Hat should offer fresh boxed copies of Linux (yes, with the usual support) to each new resident. Just drop off the promotional crate with the sales agent; it's just like some laundry detergent, barbecue briquette or furniture coupons that other subdivisions offer their new home-owning residents.

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    1. Re:Samples of Linux? by glitch! · · Score: 5, Funny

      On the first month of home sales, Red Hat should offer fresh boxed copies of Linux (yes, with the usual support) to each new resident. Just drop off the promotional crate with the sales agent; it's just like some laundry detergent, barbecue briquette or furniture coupons that other subdivisions offer their new home-owning residents.

      How about Linux missionaries riding their bicycles through the neighorhoods?

      (The doorbell rings, two young men dressed in simple black and white clothes waiting.)

      homeowner: Yes?
      missionary: Hello, sir. Have you ever tried Linux?
      homeowner: Isn't that a laundry detergent?
      missionary: Only in Germany, sir. Would you be interested to know that you don't have to buy Windows every two years?
      homeowner: I think you're an encyclopedia salesman! And I like Windows.
      missionary: Why not give Linux a try? Here, I'll install it for you. (pushes door open and runs for computer room)
      homeowner: Hey, get out of here! I'll call the police!
      (2 hours later...)
      homeowner: (robot voice) I like Linux. I hate Windows. RMS is a god. I must tell my friends.
      missionary: Very good sir! See you at the next LUG meeting, then!

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      A dingo ate my sig...
  11. Make mine coax.... by mr.+methane · · Score: 4, Informative

    10 yeara ago, fiber was the obvious best choice for high-bandwidth connections. Nowadays, though, a good chunk of coaxial cable seems to be a more practical choice.

    A cable modem capable of communicating at 20+mbps goes for about $80. 100 of them can coexist politely on the same broadcast domain.

    On the other hand, an optical transceiver costs about 10x as much, is very picky about how the connection is terminated, and doesn't compensate automatically for differing power levels (anybody who carries a bag of attenuators around a colo knows allllll about that:)

    For linking cabinet c19.33 to the meet-me room at 1 Wilshire? Gimme fiber. Linking two POP's together across town? Single-mode fiber!

    Connecting my house to the internet? Gimme copper. Preferably coax.

    Fiber, implemented at the carrier level, is an incredibly efficient transmission medium; I lease OC48 wavelengths in the same physical fiber as half a dozen other companies, and I get a lot of bandwidth for a (comparatively) smaller price. But I don't use fiber in the office, or at home.

  12. We have this in Italy by swinerd · · Score: 4, Informative

    A company called Fastweb wired most of Milan with fiber optic. I have a 10 Mb/sec connection at home, with unlimited calls to phone in Italy (no cell phones) at 85 euro/month. Without unlimited calls (just connection) it's 67 euro/month.
    I also have it in my office too, though it costs more.
    These are very competitive prices in Italy, but other companies offer just at most a 640K/sec ADSL.
    And it's fast: it's full 10 Mb/sec in the MAN, and there is a p2p network with 1000s of hosts in which a full movie is downloaded in about 15-20 minutes.
    In the rest of the Internet the connection is very fast, even if much less than the MAN. I generally download at 200K/sec from a decent server.
    Almost everybody I know who uses Internet and can (some areas are not wired) has Fastweb.
    There are some drawbacks: some problems with mail servers, no public nor static ip and other things. But you forget anything when you look at the speed of the connection :)