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RIAA Moves Against College-Network Fileswapping

Posted by timothy on from the baby-with-the-bathwater dept.

pazu13 writes "The RIAA is taking action against college "Napster networks". It's suing four network operators, two at Renssalaer Polytechnic Institute, one at Princeton University, and one at Michigan Technological University. Don't know where this is going, but I'm afraid it might get significantly harder for humble college students such as myself to sample an artist's music before going out and buying a disc... my speed across the network is ridiculously faster than when I try to access outside sources."

27 of 688 comments (clear)

  1. DMCA? by Ken@WearableTech · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can you use the DMCA against them? Create a system that only lets local IP's access the servers. Then use some simple crypto to transfer the files. Top it off with in access policy that forbids non-student use. If they access your network, it would then be illegal.

    By reading this you have broken the DMCA as this message is encrypted with the English Language Cypher. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

    1. Re:DMCA? by friedegg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All it takes is a big enough bounty for one student to cave and access it/report it for violations. They'll have a local IP address, access as a student, and be difficult extremely difficult to predict ahead of time. Plus, being college students, the bounty probably wouldn't need to be too big... maybe a pizza.

      Actually, the RIAA bought me pizza once. They came to a class I had in 1997-98 (Legal Issues in Computing) to discuss music piracy with some college students. At the time, I wasn't very familiar with the concept, but, uh, shortly after, I became very well acquainted. They even gave us some free CDs!

      --
      Google doesn't index user sigs, so stop trying to "Google Bomb" with them.
  2. fuuuu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    i think i speak for most college students here when i say 'FUCK RIAA'. that's it no more cd's for me

  3. "Sampling an artists music" by deanj · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you want to sample an artist's music before buying a disc, why not listen to the radio, MTV, or the short samples available on Amazon.com (or wherever) to get an idea of what the artist is like?

    1. Re:"Sampling an artists music" by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 3, Interesting

      [old argument] Yeah, that works great for the n% of artists that the major recording companies have signed and paid their way onto the radio playlists. For the 100-n% that are making it on their own, or are being suffocated by a major label contract they can't escape, GOOD LUCK. Soon the RIAA will move to kill the college stations, and if they succeed they will control the entire radio market top to bottom [/old argument]. MTV is even worse, you have to be able to afford to produce a palatable video that'll fit nicely into one of their anointed genre pigeonholes.

      Indy bands that give away a few mp3's on their websites get my vote however. Best way to promote your music online, IMO. And it heads off "music piracy" the RIGHT way.

      --
      Freedom: "I won't!"
    2. Re:"Sampling an artists music" by vondo · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yeah, exactly, because, you know I have infinite amounts of money. So I can afford to buy ten CDs of which I'll like one, and sell the other nine back at a 50% loss. Also I live next to this magical used CD store that has every CD from every artist on their shelves.

      Look, I don't mind paying $18 for a CD if its something I want. Honestly. I download stuff I think I might like, listen to it on my computer (which is a hassle still) and see if I like it enough to buy it. If I don't, I delete it. Honestly. How hard is it to grasp that there are mature people out there who's use of P2P actually benefits the RIAA and other (non-RIAA) artists?

    3. Re:"Sampling an artists music" by ShadowcatBlue · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you want to sample an artist's music before buying a disc, why not listen to the radio, MTV, or the short samples available on Amazon.com (or wherever) to get an idea of what the artist is like?

      Personally, when it comes to the mainstream English music I only buy the CD under 2 conditions: 1) I actually like 80% of the songs on it and 2) after listening to those songs for about 2 weeks (not constantly, but often) I still like them. That's why I prefer to download an album (when I can't borrow it from a friend) before I buy it. Most music retail sites rarely have all the songs in an album up, and even when they do hearing only 30 seconds of a song is decieving because if there's an annoying interlude 2 minutes into it that makes me detest it then I'll hate the song (maybe I'm too picky). Also, from past experience, mainstream English music when I like it tends to wear itself out really fast about half the time. I'm hesitant to buy CDs I might be absolutely sick of even the sight of in a couple of weeks. With the price of American mainstream CDs these days, I don't want just "an idea" of what an artist is like, I want to be SURE I like the album I'm paying for. Every artist has good and bad albums.

      I blame American mainstream music industry for the high occurrence of crap among their products. I've noticed I'm drastically less cautious when shelling out the cash for foreign albums, part of that is because their albums even look a lot spiffier. I appreciate a product that looks, as well as sounds, thoughtfully produced.

  4. Gestapo, anyone? by mrjive · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It seems like nailing the network admins for the (mis)behaviour of the students is a bit of a broad move to make.

    They have an AUP I'm sure, but at the bigger schools, it becomes tough to enforce. The inability to control what the students do (at some level) somehow makes the admins responsible? I don't agree with that, but that's just me.

    --
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin
  5. This is Terrible. by HanzoSan · · Score: 0, Interesting


    Why should censorship be allowed at college? How is a person supposed to learn when censored? Most college students do not buy CDs, so its not really going to help their sales by doing this, because most college students except for the few who are rich are too busy buying books, going to parties, and paying tuition to have any money left for music CDs. So this isnt about money, its about control, the RIAA wants to be able to control everything we do on our computers, it also removes our privacy. Once the campus police start to monitor all internet trafic kiss your privacy goodbye. Whats the point of going to college if you are being watched 24/7 by men in black with RIAA logos?

    We need to fight this somehow, and I dont mean just a stupid petition, we need to protest this instead of protesting the Iraq war.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  6. Merf by dopefish3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On a slightly odd recent discovery, it seems the RIAA may not have been so evil at a point...
    http://members.cox.net/datafox166/irony. jpg
    I pulled this off an album circa 1965 or something like that. It _was_ that now its doing this? What happened?

  7. This would be more like by HanzoSan · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Shutting off all the TVs to prevent minors from viewing violence.

    I mean really, its not the RIAA's job to be our parents. Its should be left up to the college. Capitalism is important yes, but its not everything, money is not more important than education, if you cannot have freedom of speech even in the educational enviornment well then I'm going to move to China, I mean if we have to be monitored by the RIAA, whats the point of staying in the RIAA's country, Its not ours anymore, if we had a vote right now most people would be for piracy, and for filesharing, this reminds me of prohibition, or people who try to outlaw porn.

    Look, it will never work, give it up, the people want to share music, the RIAA can adapt to the industry, or they can hiijack our government and change the laws. If they are allowed to change our laws, we arent a democracy.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  8. How? by OMEGA+Power · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How is the RIAA (Recording Industry Assholes Association) finding out what is being traded on these networks? From my understanding (based on the file sharing network at my school) is that the system is only accessible to people on the school's local network (which requires a direct connection to a on-campus drop or use of VPN software AND the use of a school-issued userid/password). Is the RIAA illegally breaking into people's LANs, hiring campus spies or what?

  9. Lawsuits vs. Legal action by porkface · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder why they're choosing lawsuits over legal prosecution. As I understand it, lawsuits require less proof, and give them much greater investigatory allowances, but in my book these people should be prosecuted rather than hassled with lawsuits.

    What the hell is the point of forcing us to sit through 15 second FBI warnings before movies if they're not going to use the FBI?

  10. No. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Once they've won their million dollar lawsuit, the judge might not throw out the "trespassing" charge against them, but it would be a slap on the wrist penalty for it.

    And it sure as hell won't protect you from the million dollar settlement.

    Besides, they might not even use the evidence they've illegally obtained. Rather, they would find some student/traitor that would be witness to the "awful theft of IP".

    The law isn't a tool you can use, it's for them to use. Think of it as a smart gun that knows their fingerprints... you might punch them and take it, but it won't ever shoot them.

    1. Re:No. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh, that means that the cops can't search and seize. They aren't police officers, dimbat. So they may not even be barred from using illegally obtained evidence, they may not even try to use it. And even if they do, whats a $1000 fine to the RIAA?

      The judge is not going to say "Since you're guilty of a $1000 offense, I'll let the defendant go on a $1,000,000 offense.". It doesn't work like that.

      You remind me of the idiots that leave behind inadmissible evidence, that the point the cops in the direction of tons of *admissible* evidence. They get caught, arrested... and then cry "That's not fair!". You seem easily confused by what our Constitution allows and forbids, and how it is usually interpreted by judges at the state and federal level.

      Besides, let's assume that it is a criminal case, being investigated by cops. They're collecting evidence to use at your trial. They can't come into your house without a warrant, and can't get that without a good reason. But can they break the encryption on your p2p network? (Technical considerations aside...) Well, I'm not aware of any interpretation of illegal search and seizure that considers your p2p network your house, property or person. In many ways, it would be like an undercover narc that gets invited to a "private club". Even if that club has a "no narcs" rule... the judge won't throw out his testimony based on some theoretical trespassing charge that won't stick. Hell, he'll even grant search warrants on such. The only thing that *might* be thrown out, is if the cop that infiltrates a p2p network uses some flaw to hack into your machine above and beyond what the p2p software allows. And given how little they understand tech, even that's far from sure.

      Now, stay with me. That was all cops, in a criminal investigation. Say that the RIAA has private investigators that do perform illegal searches, and they present this evidence to the cops. In many cases, this evidence can be admissible. Often, the private investigators will get some sort of verbal reprimand, but I doubt many are charged with trespassing or privacy violations.

      But let's go for the most likely scenario, a civil lawsuit. At that point, all bets are off. The cops aren't even involved (you might call on them for help, if the RIAA is trespassing... but since it doesn't rise to the level of $5000 of hacking damage, do you think they'll help? Hell, they might decide to prosecute you for pointing out to them you are breaking federal law...). Testimony and evidence obtained illegally are usually fair game. And they sure as hell can use it to find some idiot college student that will decide "it's in his best interest to testify for the plaintif". This won't sway 99% of judges even a little... and the other 1% won't be swayed enough to rule in your favor.

      But let's say he did. Somehow, you win. You've just dropped out of college, because you can't afford that and the $100,000 worth of legal fees it took to get your miracle ruling. It's owed to a lawyer too, so good luck getting rid of it with bankruptcy... a bankruptcy judge will just work out some structured payment plan... which means the rest of your life, since you're just a high school graduate. They'll throw you in jail for contempt, if you fail to comply, too. And mind you, this is all wild-assed, best case scenario. Scroll up again, for the more likely possibilities.

      And you know what, I don't even really disagree with all of this in principle. If I argued that the Constitution should protect against this, the only possible effect would be to weaken it. "The Constitution says we can't do this Sgt. Bacon, but those hippies are always claiming that it should protect them from prosecution of all sorts of criminal activity, so it must not be worth much! Let's ignore it!".

      And I never even mentioned all the people put to death based on eye witness testimoney in the 19th century, the corruption in the judicial system that we all know is there to an unknown extent, the millions that the RIAA can spend on suc

  11. What crap... by kenthorvath · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Given their bandwidth and high-speed connections, college computer networks are a frequent haven for illegal file-copying. As a result, many have become so clogged -- often because of file-copying by users from outside of the college community -- that such legitimate uses of the network as email or academic research have dramatically slowed.



    The filesharing services that they are trying to shut down are internal to the college's network and as such does not have such a negative impact. In many cases, traffic passes between two dorm rooms on the same switch. It NEVER leaves the network, and in my experiences, NOTHING slows down. The network admins at (some school I know of) are aware of this, and actually ENCOURAGE this type of filesharing as it cuts down on the outbound/inbound traffic to/from the University's internet connection. This is great stuff...

  12. Sounds Fair Enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    University Resources shouldn't be used for your personal entertainment. They are supposed to be for learning stuff.

    It really depends whether your school is behaving like a full ISP or are providing net access for database access etc.
    If they are a full ISP then they should just tell RIAA to go to hell. If not, then they really should block all peer to peer sharing (between students at least).

  13. Cant sample obscure music on radio by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its a ongoing problem, many groups DONT get air play, so their sales suffer and remain virtually unknown.

    Sampling via 'illegal' means is the only way you decide if you want to buy the rest of their stuff...

    And a 10 second sample doesnt count, that is not representative of a artists work.

    And yes ive bought many albums i never would have risked money on, unless i could hear the WHOLE thing.. I have to work for my music budget...

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  14. this article is seriously confused... by Toasty16 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...I mean, try this on for size:

    ...but instead of being open to anyone with access to the Internet, they reside on a specific college's internal computer network, known also as a "local area network."

    So far so good, no misinformation yet. But then the spin gets started:

    "These systems are best described as 'local area Napster networks,' said Cary Sherman, President, RIAA. 'The court ruled that Napster was illegal and shut it down. These systems are just as illegal and operate in just the same manner."

    Ok, so now we're defining a LAN as a LANL? And Sherman is saying that a LAN is the same thing as Napster? But wait, it gets better:

    "This is a particularly flagrant way to illegally distribute millions of copyrighted works over the Internet,' added Sherman. 'The people who run these Napster networks know full well what they are doing ?'"

    The first quote already differentiated between LANs and the internet, but now they're being lumped together. Also, that question mark at the end is in the original article, and I think that it deserves to be there, since now we are referring to LANs specifically as "Napster networks." But wait, now things get really confusing:

    "The perpetrators of these internal Napster networks named in the suits filed by the RIAA make use of software known variously as Flatlan, Phynd or Direct Connect."

    Ok, so LANs are "Napster networks" which use software? I thought that Napster was software too, but now I see that it was a network, though I'm still not clear on whether it used software or not. Anyway, I learned a lot from this article, like the RIAA's music piracy hotline, 1-800-BAD-BEAT. Call in and report a rival company or school that is hosting a "Napster network," and keep America running!

  15. Technology by lilbudda · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "With or without these services, people would be able to share these files," the student said. "It's Microsoft that's allowing people to share these files; we're just accessing public information." So, if some technotard shares out their "My Music" with windows file sharing, they are sueable?

  16. Most people dont have good headphones by HanzoSan · · Score: 1, Interesting



    The headphones most CDplayers come with are cheap peices of junk, so on a portible device people prefer mp3. You are right however for the home stereo people do prefer CD, but those same people who prefer CD over MP3 would also prefer a record player over a CD player because Vinyl sounds so much better.

    See the problem I have and alot of others have is, we dont want to buy the whole CD which might only have one good song on it, but I will pay a fee to download an mp3 in public. I think 25 cent is reasonnable, its a price anyone will pay rich or poor.

    I wont pay $3.99 for a single, I will pay $1 for a high quality vinyl single. I will pay 50 cent for a CD, and I will pay 25 cent for an mp3. Thats it.

    I'm not going to pay $5 for one song.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  17. It's not bullshit. by JKConsult · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Don't know where this is going, but I'm afraid it might get significantly harder for humble college students such as myself to sample an artist's music before going out and buying a disc... my speed across the network is ridiculously faster than when I try to access outside sources.
    I'm sorry, I don't believe you.

    I'm sorry, I don't care whether or not you believe him (or me.) Let me be the 8,000th person to say this on /., but I do buy more music thanks to file-sharing. Before Napster, I bought, on average, 5-10 CDs a year. I'm very, very picky. I like quite a bit, but I don't buy most of it. Only after extended listening, usually due to a friend owning the album (we're talking 5+ listens to the full album here) would I buy a CD.

    Post-Napster, I'm buying 20-25 CDs a year. I burn entire albums, yes. Some are acts I already know, but want to check out an album that I don't own. I've been burned enough by the "I like one CD, so I'll probably like all of theirs" mentality enough to avoid it. Some are of acts I've only heard about. Burn it, enjoy it (or not), and expand.

    In the middle of last year, I got onto an extended hip-hop kick. I've always been a big fan, but I started listening almost exclusively, and started snapping up CDs both new and used at the rate of 2 or 3 a week. Why? Because after listening to A Tribe Called Quest's Midnight Marauders for about the thousandth time, I happened to be in front of a PC when I heard the line "favorite rap group back in the day was EPMD." Went to Amazon, read some reviews. Downloaded and burned Strictly Business, and listened to it on the way home. Went nuts. Went out and bought two other EPMD albums. Moved on to Nas (1 burn, 1 buy), Biz Markie (2 buys), De La Soul (2 buys), etcetera, etcetera. The result? My hip-hop collection has gone from about 30 CDs to about 80 (15 of which are burns), and I have an extensive collection of early hip-hop which I'm still adding to at a very accelerated rate for me. The moral, as always with posts like this, is that for the price of me "stealing" 10 albums, I've bought 40 others. Yeah, I'm "stealing and pirating." Yeah, the RIAA can feel free to condemn me. But if they would just take their heads out of their butts, they would realize and capitalize on this. So yes, I'm saying the same thing everyone else says, and you probably don't believe me or don't care. But they should.

    To bastardize a quote: "Fuck the RIAA. Fuck them up their stupid asses."

  18. Sheezus Christ by shadowbearer · · Score: 2, Interesting


    In the final analysis, who is this really hurting?

    Everybody!. Because the universities must spend more money in defending themselves, which raises their budgets, in the long run they have to raise their tuition.

    This means that we have fewer students who can afford college; fewer graduates who have the skills and knowledge to improve our society; fewer educated people to make decisions.

    I have watched the deterioration of our educational system for too long. I am getting very damned angry. What can be done to stop this? Do we have to declare open season on lawyers who take cases on simply out of greed? We should at least start slapping down companies/organizations who pull this kind of shit; it's obviously not contributing to the common good. Perhaps fines aren't enough; dismember the companies involved and execute the greedy fucks.

    Good lord. I am sick of where this country is headed. The greedmongers have taken over, and we are all fucked in the long run. Maybe it *is* time for a revolution. I honestly don't know what else can be done at this point. The sheeple don't know enough to fix things - not that our political election system seems to work right, either.

    Fuck.

    SB *does not give a shit about karma tonite*

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  19. The complaints are online by jdbarillari · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Adam, a classmate of mine in a course on Information Technology and the Law noted on the course newsgroup that FindLaw has the complaints online.

    The irony is that this happened the same week we discussed the Napster case in the class.

  20. Re:1-800-BAD-BEAT by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...and if you're in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's call into the RIAA wherever you are, just call in say "RIAA, You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And hang up. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't listen. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both pirates and they won't listen to either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people calling in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and hangin up. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day calling in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and hangin up. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

    Thanks to Arlo Guthrie! :^)

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  21. Fear attack? by Laurion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Please note that according to this article at The Chronicle of Higher Education that a lot of the colleges are surprised and upset that the RIAA did not contact them or try to work with them on this. My guess is that it's because the institutions have lawyers who can defend in court the fact that a search engine is not illegal. So skip the lawyers by skipping the college. Oh, and don't tell the students until after the lawsuits are filed.

    --
    "Is this not a rare fellow, my lord? He's as good at any thing, and yet a fool." -from "As You Like It", Act 5,
  22. Re:What's the gripe? by Cyno · · Score: 2, Interesting

    it is enforcement of entirely legitimate intellectual property rights against actual infringers

    Listen to yourself, man. You are advocating monopolistic practices as well as the possibility of physical harm to real live human beings over the consuption of a small sample of media that could be infinitely replicated without costing the RIAA or anyone else a penny. You think it is right to hurt our students for "stealing" risking possible prison time and the real threat of physical harm over a few leaves that fell off your Apple tree?

    There really are no more Robin Hoods...

    You people just make me sick! You ARE sick.