Posted by
michael
on from the montessori-school dept.
suzipaw writes "In this interview on OpenP2P.com, Kay has some interesting observations about both the past and future of computing--including kids using technology. Says Kay, "Montessori would have been a great innovator with computers.""
Refelctions...
by
evilviper
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Yes, all you get in the article are refections such as We were doing great things, and Computers aren't going where they should be. As with most similar interviews, there is nothing about what we SHOULD be doing now, just that we aren't doing it...
People, if you aren't happy with computers, come up with where they should be going, and why. A GUI was a natural evolution for the computer... What exactly do we need next? Come-on all you "visionaries"...
Going from what I've seen of recent computer history the booms seem to just sneak up. For example the net really became big in about 97/98 here is europe and it caught everyone off guard. Even Microsoft said "the internet isn't relevant" and then turned around and released IE. I'm sure there is going to be another boom its just trying to work out what it is
Re:My kid loves her computer
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
i grew up with computers, around the age of 6 i was a regular on a bunch of local BBSes and also running my own, with DOS and stuff. i feel these days i have much less curiousity and ability to learn, i wish i could go back to the mindset i had in those days so i can figure things out just as fast as i did back then.
ever since i enrolled in university i've been much less active, so to speak. in high school i used to love hacking around the school district servers, the local security and protection, the proxy server, all that stuff. now i have no interest in the university equivalents (rooting the server, upping my quota, etc). it's not because i know the penalties are really harsh if i get caught, but i seriously have no interest.
these days i'm starting to feel as if maturity and education have ruined me. kids with computers are incredible because they are able to learn much faster and realize thing much sooner. maybe it's just me but i wish i could be like i was back then.
Re:Kids and Computers
by
rf0
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I will admit that I use to be similar in being intelligent and that works against you. However a few years ago I decided to turn my life round as well and now I've got a life, a gf and actually go out. Perhaps I work a bit to much but I'm a lot happier. I just can't help but think though I should of spent more of my childhood out playing..
Re:Kids and Computers and boys and Ritalin
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
The trouble is, darned few kids are taught to program, they just sit in front of the screen filling out multiple choice answers. It's used mainly as a scoring aid for teacher.
Inquisitive and restless boys, the troublemakers, are sent to the school nurse, who then has a talk with the parents about ADHD. Parents then get from SSI a $450 check for their disabled child being treated with vitamin R.
and when these powers of expression bring forth a new way to discuss, think, and argue about important ideas.
Yo brain don't work well on Ritalin. Besides, few math and science majors ever teach those subjects. In reality, the football or soccer or hockey coach picks up the computer class, and he/she just teaches out of the answer book. Coach skidded through teaching college with a minor in Social Sciences or Human Services. Never had a logic class, and the last time was in a science or math class was 7th grade.
Alan Kay needs to acquaint himself with the new realities of public education.
What will computers *be*, to kids.
by
dmorin
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Once upon a time computers were thought to be really fancy calculators.
Then people started thinking about them as fancy typewriters.
Then, databases. I remember working at a retail computer store in the late 80's and actually using the "mom can store her recipes" argument.
Somewhere in there they were seen as having the potential to be generic problem solvers. But I think that view was only ever held by developers, not users.
I think kids see the computer as a communication device. IM is the world to lots of them.
I, like many Slashdotters, saw my first computer at the age of about 10 where if you wanted a new video game you learned assembly language and wrote your own. I spend the next 20 years listening to people say things like "Oh, my 2yr old is into the computer just like you were!" Yeah, sure. The 2yr old likes to wiggle the mouse, I was hacking 6809 assembly. That's the same thing. But kids now have simply learned to see the computer for its communication ability, and don't necessarily care to see it as a machine that can be turned into new things. Sure, they like to personalize the hell out of it. Skinning your programs, generating new icons, that's all the rage. But the percentage of 10yr olds that are out there thinking about new IM programs to write is probably about the same as its always been. I've always been a firm believer that hackers are born, not made, a kid who is destined to hack will show an intuition for it from the minute she sits down at the keyboard, and a kid who isn't will be bored and distracted in programming classes.
Re:My kid loves her computer
by
shadowbearer
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Beats them spending the same time in front of the Vacuum Tube watching the garbage on it, doesn't it?
(ok, unless you can restrict their TV time to more educational things such as Discovery Channel and whatever else is available nowadays - beats me, I haven't watched TV in years)
SB
-- It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
Re: Revisionist Mac/PARC history
by
Animats
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Note: I'm not sure of Steve Jobs actual role at Xerox PARC. I've read differing accounts ranging from the tourist picture I paint above to his actually being a researcher there. Can anybody clarify?
Mostly, that's a myth. First, Parc was never that secretive. I got the tour and demo in 1975 while taking a class in computer architecture, years before Jobs did. Met Alan Kay and Adele Goldberg, and saw an early version of Smalltalk running a discrite-event simulation.
Second, the Lisa was the innovative machine; the Mac was a severely cost-reduced Lisa. (Remember the original Mac specs: 128K, one floppy, no hard drive, cost about $3K) The big problem back then, realized by most researchers, was that you need about a megapixel, a megabyte, and a megahertz to do a GUI system. PARC did that by having custom minicomputers built at a cost of about $40K each. (Xerox Altos were actually built by Data General, and were Data General Novas with different microcode.) Other people tried to build "workstations" that had enough hardware to do the job, but most of them ran UNIX, which was a poor platform for a GUI.
Third, what PARC had back then looked nothing like the Mac, or even like a modern GUI. It looked more like a game system; you could run one program at a time, and that program ran full-screen. You could get multiple windows going in the same Smalltalk environment, but they all belonged to the same program.
Incidentally, back then Kay described Ethernet as "Alohanet with a captive ether". It was based on a University of Hawaii VHF network well-known in the networking community at the time.
Slashdot Mirror
A lot of criticisms about how what everyone else is doing is wrong without offering an alternative, and gloating that "he did it first".
Nothing against Alan personally, but he reminds me of team motivators that are great at speaking theory but lack giving true direction.
__ cheap web site hosting FAQ
Yes, all you get in the article are refections such as We were doing great things, and Computers aren't going where they should be. As with most similar interviews, there is nothing about what we SHOULD be doing now, just that we aren't doing it...
People, if you aren't happy with computers, come up with where they should be going, and why. A GUI was a natural evolution for the computer... What exactly do we need next? Come-on all you "visionaries"...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Going from what I've seen of recent computer history the booms seem to just sneak up. For example the net really became big in about 97/98 here is europe and it caught everyone off guard. Even Microsoft said "the internet isn't relevant" and then turned around and released IE. I'm sure there is going to be another boom its just trying to work out what it is
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
i grew up with computers, around the age of 6 i was a regular on a bunch of local BBSes and also running my own, with DOS and stuff. i feel these days i have much less curiousity and ability to learn, i wish i could go back to the mindset i had in those days so i can figure things out just as fast as i did back then.
ever since i enrolled in university i've been much less active, so to speak. in high school i used to love hacking around the school district servers, the local security and protection, the proxy server, all that stuff. now i have no interest in the university equivalents (rooting the server, upping my quota, etc). it's not because i know the penalties are really harsh if i get caught, but i seriously have no interest.
these days i'm starting to feel as if maturity and education have ruined me. kids with computers are incredible because they are able to learn much faster and realize thing much sooner. maybe it's just me but i wish i could be like i was back then.
I will admit that I use to be similar in being intelligent and that works against you. However a few years ago I decided to turn my life round as well and now I've got a life, a gf and actually go out. Perhaps I work a bit to much but I'm a lot happier. I just can't help but think though I should of spent more of my childhood out playing..
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
The trouble is, darned few kids are taught to program, they just sit in front of the screen filling out multiple choice answers. It's used mainly as a scoring aid for teacher.
Inquisitive and restless boys, the troublemakers, are sent to the school nurse, who then has a talk with the parents about ADHD. Parents then get from SSI a $450 check for their disabled child being treated with vitamin R.
and when these powers of expression bring forth a new way to discuss, think, and argue about important ideas.
Yo brain don't work well on Ritalin. Besides, few math and science majors ever teach those subjects. In reality, the football or soccer or hockey coach picks up the computer class, and he/she just teaches out of the answer book. Coach skidded through teaching college with a minor in Social Sciences or Human Services. Never had a logic class, and the last time was in a science or math class was 7th grade.
Alan Kay needs to acquaint himself with the new realities of public education.
Then people started thinking about them as fancy typewriters.
Then, databases. I remember working at a retail computer store in the late 80's and actually using the "mom can store her recipes" argument.
Somewhere in there they were seen as having the potential to be generic problem solvers. But I think that view was only ever held by developers, not users.
I think kids see the computer as a communication device. IM is the world to lots of them.
I, like many Slashdotters, saw my first computer at the age of about 10 where if you wanted a new video game you learned assembly language and wrote your own. I spend the next 20 years listening to people say things like "Oh, my 2yr old is into the computer just like you were!" Yeah, sure. The 2yr old likes to wiggle the mouse, I was hacking 6809 assembly. That's the same thing. But kids now have simply learned to see the computer for its communication ability, and don't necessarily care to see it as a machine that can be turned into new things. Sure, they like to personalize the hell out of it. Skinning your programs, generating new icons, that's all the rage. But the percentage of 10yr olds that are out there thinking about new IM programs to write is probably about the same as its always been. I've always been a firm believer that hackers are born, not made, a kid who is destined to hack will show an intuition for it from the minute she sits down at the keyboard, and a kid who isn't will be bored and distracted in programming classes.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Beats them spending the same time in front of the Vacuum Tube watching the garbage on it, doesn't it?
(ok, unless you can restrict their TV time to more educational things such as Discovery Channel and whatever else is available nowadays - beats me, I haven't watched TV in years)
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
Mostly, that's a myth. First, Parc was never that secretive. I got the tour and demo in 1975 while taking a class in computer architecture, years before Jobs did. Met Alan Kay and Adele Goldberg, and saw an early version of Smalltalk running a discrite-event simulation.
Second, the Lisa was the innovative machine; the Mac was a severely cost-reduced Lisa. (Remember the original Mac specs: 128K, one floppy, no hard drive, cost about $3K) The big problem back then, realized by most researchers, was that you need about a megapixel, a megabyte, and a megahertz to do a GUI system. PARC did that by having custom minicomputers built at a cost of about $40K each. (Xerox Altos were actually built by Data General, and were Data General Novas with different microcode.) Other people tried to build "workstations" that had enough hardware to do the job, but most of them ran UNIX, which was a poor platform for a GUI.
Third, what PARC had back then looked nothing like the Mac, or even like a modern GUI. It looked more like a game system; you could run one program at a time, and that program ran full-screen. You could get multiple windows going in the same Smalltalk environment, but they all belonged to the same program.
Incidentally, back then Kay described Ethernet as "Alohanet with a captive ether". It was based on a University of Hawaii VHF network well-known in the networking community at the time.