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Librarians Join the Fight Against The Patriot Act
An anonymous reader writes "This article at the New York Times (free reg.) shows how lots of libraries are moving to destroy privacy related data as quickly as possible and still others have gone as far as posting signs and handing out leaflets to scare / educate their patrons."
There are lot of privacy concerns ever since the "war on terror". It seems to be the "war on privacy", and coupled with the governments ability to hold anyone for as long as they want without charging them, this is quickly becoming a place where you are guilty until proven innocent, and even then it doesn't necessarily mean you will not be prosecuted.
So basically the Patriot Act says that library records can be used in terrorist investigations. Is that it, or is there something more sinister I'm missing? Honestly, I'm not trying to troll here.
If that is it...then good grief, what are we talking about here? What is there about borrowing a book that should make it a sacrosanct activity like confessional, or attorney-client privelege? I'm sorry, but what books someone has borrowed certainly seems like it could be relevant to me. We're supposed to ignore this information, why?
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
Is that kinda like book burning?
No, it's kind of like letting you read a book, and then not running to the FBI to inform them that since you read "Catcher in the Rye" you must be a suicide bomber.
No. not anything like it.
Libraries are trying to protect their patrons rights so that people will feel safe using what ever material is in the building.
Without having to worry about big brother. If we don't have the material to give when the feds come knocking, we can't violate a persons right to privacy.
Altp.
But in the same way a German Jewish sympathiser might have burned their nehibor's linage records when the Nazi party was in power.
It's not a matter of destroying public information. It's a matter of destroying what was private information. This has absolutely nothing to do with fascism at all. The Patriot Act makes a lot of what would be private information availible to the government, something that is quite possibly unconstituional (Hopefully the Supreme Court will take a look at it soon..). The librarians want to uphold that kind of privacy and so they're choosing to destroy the information rather than leave it to be confiscated by someone in the government. They're taking a risk for what has always been until recently an American freedom.
Terrorist.
Looked at a chemistry book?
Terrorist.
Read Mein Kampft(sp)?
Terorist
Read a physics book?
Dirty bomber
Che Guveras biography?
Terrorist
picke up a copy of 2600?
terrorist
When they control what you can read and see, they controll your mind. Of course it wont be illegal to read any of these(probably) but how many people will check them out to read once they realize that this will automaticaly get a record started on them with the FBI. I odnt know about you, but i buy my copy of 2600 with cash. How much longer will that be possible?
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Here's one: the Kyoto Agreement. The one the U.S. bailed on because it would cost them too much money in the short-run.
Here's another: The U.N.
foreign concepts I know, but if you want to sling mud, you'd better check what you're standing in.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
I think that it is actually pretty cool that librarians are doing something like this for their patrons. It shows that they really do care.
--If only there was a license required to use a computer.
As anyone who studies political science will tell you, a democracy only works well when you have an educated public. Those who visit a library are obviously seeking knowledge, and so any attempt by the staff of said library to provide them with knowledge should be applauded.
This, however, goes above and beyond simply providing their patrons with knowledge. This is an example of a group of people with a very subtle power using that power to advance the principles of freedom and democracy. By actively protecting the right to privacy of their patrons and seeking to educate them about laws that have a very real and chilling effect on their lives, they truly are making this country greater by the day.
You won't see major media protesting this law; only showing how great it is that our wonderful government is protecting us so that we may feel warm and fuzzy all over. To see a group of people standing up in defense of the rights of citizens at the risk of being denied their own rights is both comforting and encouraging.
If any of you notices a librarian tearing up a checkout card, handing out fliers or putting up posters on this subject, thank them; they deserve that much if not more. They're risking their safety and freedom to try and protect your's.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
I'm glad they're on our side
...And before you get too cranky, I am somewhat wary of the patriot act myself. I am just making a point...
Speak for yourself. Not everyone is on "Your" side. Don't assume that every reader or poster on this site agrees with you.
...quicker, easier, more seductive the darkside is...but more powerful, it is not.
Question:
If the government knew a guy checked out a book on chemical weapons and the guy who checked them out was a Saudi exchange student and this caused a red flag that got him interviewed or deported, how does this violate my rights?
Answer:
It doesn't.
Basicly so that I won't be embarassed by checking out my books, the librarian is going to shred Achmed Al-Terrorist's records of books on explosives and chemical weapons?
It's not a violation of rights to keep information. It's what you do with information that may violate our rights.
The minute they violate the rights of law abiding citizens we should bitch, but why before then? They haven't done anything bad yet, shouldn't we at least give them the same benefit of the doubt we give foreign nationals who might be terrorists?
Evil Man
Yes, it could be relevant to terrorist investigations... And it can help find potential terrorists, too! For instance, if you see someone has checked out books on flying planes and September 11th, then they're probably a terrorist (or maybe a pilot); if you see someone has looked at books on chemistry and physics, they're probably a suicide bomber (or maybe a high-school teacher); if you see someone has read 1984, they're obviously a subversive commie-lovin' bastard (or maybe a student); if you've read anything on crypto, codes, Engima machines, numbers theory, you're obviously a cracker (or maybe a mathematician)... In any case, these potential terrorists, bombers, subversives, and crackers will likely commit crimes in the future, so for the safety of the little children, we MUST lock them up now!
This has been a message from the Ashcroft Bureau of Pre-Crime.
-T
From the article:
"There are people, especially older people who lived through the McCarthy era, who might be intimidated by this," he said.
All I can say is, GOOD! I'm sure many of these same older people (whose sensibilities that some libraries are trying to protect) voted for the president and members of congress we have that gave us this act. All the better if they are made to realize just what they are voting for, and what is being done in the name of "protecting us from terrorsim."
Scare tactics, spreading baseless FUD, and all that aren't good. Stating the facts and allowing people to be informed about what the government is giving itself the right to do, however, is a different matter altogether. Those who lived through the McCarthy era may have the perspective to realize that they should be intimidated by this, while those of us who are younger can shrug off based on the rest of that quote (that the probability that any one person will have their records searched is low, since there are so many people).
-Rob
Did you read Fahrenheit 451? (Actually the movie was pretty good too). It does have a weird irony to have librarians shredding records. Maybe we just need to have some firemen burning them, too.
Thank you.
http://wsulug.org
There has been fear in the past about using people's book preferences for profiling on a larger scale. Took out a book on gay relationships? maybe you're gay. Took out a book about religion X? Maybe you practice religion X. Took out a book on living with disease X? maybe you have disease X. This becomes a lot more insidious if records of specialized bookstores are being examined. I seem to recall a case recently about a gay/lesbian focused bookstore refusing to release their customer records.
I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
Maybe we should create a list of "books of interest" and everyone goes and checks one of them out each month. One way to really screw with information systems is to throw useless data at it. If the government is collecting this information in legal or non legal ways, let's throw a wrench in it. After they find the 1000th person they have investigated for checking out "Leaving the 21st Century", "Lipstick Traces", "Days of War, Nights of Love", or any of the thousands of other subversive books out there, they will have to get more creative with things and stop looking at what I read as an idicator.
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect
My Grandpa died in WWII. Which all history will remember as a JUST war. We got in that one before the States and lost more men. Get over yourselves. You won't be the last superpower but you act as if you are the first and only...ever. You're not. Brush up on your hisory champ, instead of just flag waving.
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Why do we even have a department of homeland security? We had the National Security Agency prior to the establishment of "Homeland Security" so now we're defending both nation and homeland. As a nation of immigrants, aren't our homelands pretty widely disparate, so shouldn't it be Global Security or some such nonsense. The NSA did a pretty bang up job actually, considering the number of terrorist related casualties in this country per year since the advent of global terrorism as we know it now.
Remember, this year: Oceania is our friend, and has always been our friend, Eurasia is our enemy.
Next year: Eurasia is our friend and has always been our friend, Oceania is our enemy.
Anyway, you're still more likely to be killed or injured by an action of your own government than to be killed by a terrorist (Police brutality, prison, etc.), entirely more likely to die in a car accident, and entirely more likely to kill yourself. So, what is it we're all worried about?
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Libraries have become nothing more than monuments to the community prominent.
Do you really need multimillion dollar facilities to house books?
I am the first to agree a book is better than a monitor screen, but it's time to get current and cut government costs. If books in libraries were distributed via network or if the libraries also offered community WiFi, wouldn't that be more useful, less costly?
Yeah, great idea. Lets shut down public libraries and tie them up in technologies that no poor person can possibly afford, because they're too busy spending what little money they have buying food. Then, when they try to educate themselves, they'll be unable to find any information, because it will be all but unavailable to them. Friggin' brilliant.
Why is it that technophiles have such a hard time realizing that there are people who are a) less computer literate than them and/or b) don't have as much money. It's great how people in the cushy middle-class can so easily forget about the massive poverty which exists in their own country. And don't get me started on this Utopian ideal that, somehow, computers are the solution to (and cause of?) all of life's problems.
Good. Those people SHOULD be intimidated, because they've lived through an era where absolute bullshit such as this went unchecked and they saw the results. And I don't CARE if it's unlikely that the public records will be unchecked. It's unlikely that someone will win the $300 million Powerball on Sunday, but that doesn't mean some guy won't be $300 million richer come Monday. It's also unlikely that my local library will run a check to see who's checked out "The Art Of War" and "1984", but that doesn't mean that it won't happen.
It's at times like these that you realize how blind the general public really is.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for SEGA. ..."
> Borrow books from the state, and then get
> suprised when they pay attention to what you are
> borrowing?
The government isn't like a private or corporation; its powers are clearly defined in our Constitution. Our system of government is based on the idea that the citizens have certain unalienable rights -- you know, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The government's powers on the other hand are derived from the consent of the governed -- us. Therefore, one can clearly be "cranky" if the government steps out of those bounds.
As for other administrations, well, it's silly to argue about the hypothetical. That's like saying that an embezzler shouldn't be arrested because well, who wouldn't steal millions of dollars if given the chance?
We can only argue about what has actually happened. The Bush Administration asked for the Patriot Act and they've demonstrated they're not afraid to use it. The Bush Administration has also been steadily undoing the Watergate-era reforms that were designed to reign in the Executive branch and now they're running amuck.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
No, public libraries are typically owned by the citizens of the counties and municipalities in which they operate. Obviously I don't know about all states, but the libraries I've seen have not been owned by them.
Anyhow, governments don't own things in the way that an individual or business owns things. Public libraries belong to us, not to the state or county that created it. We merely entrust their operation to them. It is their responsiblity and duty to operate them in the manner that best suits the citizens that they are sworn to serve.
So, yeah, I get pretty angry when the state wants to violate my 4th Ammendment rights at the local library. That's my library, not theirs, and they don't have the right to search my records without a clear, legal search warrant obtained with probable cause.
(Score: -1, Stupid)
At first hitler came for the jews.
I didnt speak up because I was not a jew.
Then he came for the catholics.
I didnt speak up because I was protestant.
Then he came for the polish.
I didnt speak up because I was hungarian by birth.
Then they came for me.
And there was noone left to speak up.
(Paraphrased, I couldnt find the original version)
If you wait until the government specifically targets YOU, then you will be too late to save even yourself.
Just in case anyone feels that this article hightlights only what crazy Santa Cruz does ...
I know that my community library shreds their logs on a daily basis. Internet user sign-ups are discarded within 24 hours. Years of old Interlibrary loan records are now gone.
Librarians are great because they protect our rights. The ALA is a great organization that really protects free speech.
Thank your local librarian!
I live in Santa Cruz, and I am glad that this controversy has resulted in the libraries destroying old records. I am more concerned about Santa Cruz misusing the old data than about the FBI misusing its subpoenas. The best solution to privacy invading databases is to purge the unnecessary info from the database, and not to rely on controls on who can access the database. If the data is there, then it can be had by low-level workers who can be persuaded, bribed, or coerced.
Can someone remind me what we are protecting again?
It is our duty as Americans to constantly and aggressively keep the bureacracy in check, to hold our rights as precious treasures, and to always assume the worst of government. Our forefathers knew this hundreds of years ago. Why do you think the founders of this country put those laws into place? They put it into place hundreds of years ago, because they knew the American people, or any people, would have to fight tooth and nail to hold onto the rights that were only won with the loss of American lives. For hundreds of years, people have known that the government, any government, every government, has, does, and will abuse the power you give it if you allow it to.
What would you do differently if someone was staring over your shoulder every minute of every day? What would you not read, what would you not write, if someone with the power to lock you away indefinitely, without a trial, was watching you every minute? If you'd do anything differently (and who wouldn't) then you must know that you are being violated with these laws.
Why distrust the government? Because we stayed awake in history class. Because we read what our founders wrote. Because we love our country. Because we love our liberty.
Don't think those rights you are giving up are yours. That's your daughter's liberty, that's your grandchildren's freedom. And they wont be able to buy it back with that US Savings Bond, liberty is bought with flesh and blood and suffering, it always has and always will be.
We can only hope that more libraries take action like this. Far too many people and organizations are rolling over or worse, hiding their heads in the sand, when it comes to voicing objections to many provisions of the horribly mis-named USA PATRIOT ACT. It has suddenly become dangerous in this country to openly espouse views at odds with those of the government. Doing so results in one's patriotism being called into question; that's assuming that the Department of Injustice doesn't brand you a "terrorist" and imprison you without trial, legal counsel, or charges being brought. After all, we all know that John Ashcroft is God's gift to the American people to keep them safe from all those nasty "terrorists" out there.
Personally, I'm going down to my local library tomorrow and ask what their policy is regarding the retention of patron borrowing records, etc. If they don't have one I'll definitely urge them to adopt a policy such as Santa Cruz's. I'll volunteer to shred the records if they plead lack of manpower. It is time to start fighting back against Big Brother while we still stand a chance. If enough people start protesting about the provisions of the PATRIOT ACT the Congress may take notice and repeal that particular abomination.
Bush is out of control. Cheney is out of control. Ashcroft is out of control.
Just my $.02,
Ron
Impeach Barack Obama for violating the Constitutional requirement to be a "natural born" citizen to hold the office of P