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Microsoft Caste System
Ericka writes "Computer Source Magazine recently published an article on Microsoft's treatment of its contractors. According to some temps, the work environment for these folks has taken a downturn since the resolution of the permatemp suit."
is it any real surprise that microsoft has stepped up measures to keep their permatemp structure while mitigating lawsuits? since the monopoly trial, they don't innovate any more than they did before; they simply hire better lawyers (and judges) -- for the season.
I spent some time as a contractor at Mastercard. Poor treatment of contractors there is not only well-known, but encouraged. Hell, we weren't even allowed to park in the same parking lot as the employees. At least we got a shuttle bus. Deliver me unto my corporate master.
It's the red tape. The HR costs of hiring/firing an employee are enormous. I have no doubt it's cheaper for them to be doing the whole contractor cycle.
\I live in Switzerland, so this may not apply to you.\
I'm an IT security and unix consultant/contractor here. Aside from a few years before 2001, when massive numbers of low-skill kids decided to make a quick buck as contractors, consultants are held to a far higher standard than "permies". Much as I hate to say it, there's a sense of elitism among "real" contractors here--these are the hardcore tech guys whom you bring in when something is gefuckt beyond salvation by mere mortals.
N.b. that I don't count myself as a Superman like that, just lucky to be in the right places at the right time so far.
I've never contracted in the US, but I recall looking at contract sysadmin jobs during college, paying $17.50 US per hour. Most of my American contractor colleagues' conversations I overhear involve an ambition to go permie, and how shitty contracting is.
This surprises the hell out of me, as I think contractors/consultants here generate sort of a sense of "awe" (crappy word, but I can't think of anything better), as the outsider who comes in to do the _really_ hard stuff, among employees. This can develop into resentment if not handled carefully.
One of my project managers taught me a good lesson for consulting--never cease looking at a job as an "us-vs-them" situation. Deliver more than you promised ahead of schedule and raise the bar all around, but consider yourself as providing a good example. Stokely offers what I consider to be some excellent guidelines of how to go about this.
The idea of a 'caste' system, where the permies look down at contractors amuses me to no end.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
When I worked as a contractor in the US Environmental Protection Agency, they had a similar policy because of similar circumstance. It was a bit one sided though. The EPA folks would show up for our celebrations, but we couldn't go to theirs. It seemed kind of stupid.
Also, half of the government workers (at least in the IT departments) did work very hard and were professional. While the other half were completely useless. It was very sad. In one case, some "head librarian" who was in charge of public information would draw an $80,000 salary and the manager of the contractors to the library would do all of the work and planning. This "head librarian" did nothing but read the reports and progress generated by the contractors. She did her knitting while at work. Very very sad.
As for your tax dollars, every September they purchasing officers would work long hours in order to spend every penny that was not used through the year. It was sickening. They even bragged about how hard they were working. Government waste was at a high during my years at the EPA...at least in my department and region.
This is like suggesting that a lawyer who works for a firm and doesn't have any billable customers can collect unemployment until he gets another case to work on.
>> Contract programmers get a considerably better rate and overtime pay...
I work for a Government Contractor in the DC area. Like many Contractors, we're considered
"salaried" employees of the Contractor and do NOT get overtime pay (though we get benefits, which may or may not be paid for the Company). Fortunately our shop does not "require" overtime. Some Contractors, s.a. AMS were notorious for effectively "requiring" their people to work at least 10-20 hours of unpaid overtime per week! It was a way that they could ensure they made profit on the "lowball" rates they bid for the work.
>They just have low karma...
:p
Even though this sounds funny, you are pretty much right on the mark. I did some consulting, and I did some contract work during the boom and every once in a while I would catch some static from the FTE's.
Sometimes I earned my space on the floor by being a serious bad ass - the techs or FTE programmers were genuinely interested in my technique, my thoughts, and my experiences in similar situations. They were eager to absorb the things I had to offer, and I was eager to share.
Occasionally I would run into someone that had a chip on their shoulder and I had to earn my space on the floor the hard way (Shock and Awe). I got into a pissing match with a DBA once over the way we were going to configure a particular SQL box and when push came to shove in the server room I held up my hand as if to say 'hold on a sec', looked at my watch. We sat there silent for a full 60 seconds as I watched the second hand on my watch go full circle. I put my hand down and said 'Your company just paid me $4 for that minute. I get paid another $4 for the sixty seconds it takes for me to explain this to you, and during the sixty seconds it takes you to consider the full ramifications of that statement, (you guessed it) I earn another four dollars. We can discuss this as long as you like, and I am willing to discuss it with whoever you want to bring into this discussion. If your pride is on the line here, I will let you adopt my recommendations and demand that we do it that way and I will let you take credit for the idea - I don't care because in four days I will be out of here.' BOOM! That pretty much ended the pissing match and I got on with my work.
I didn't get invited to the company party. I didn't get perks and I had to park out in left field. I didn't get invited to lunch. And I didn't care. God I miss those days
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As for the low karma bit - it is entirely possible that the temps (at least some of them, the ones whining about their stapler or not being respected) were shining examples of Darwin in action and were not worthy of respect. Otis may have hit the nail on the head on this one.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
RE Swag: /.) has a novel paragraph in his "standard" contract. If the company gives out things like posters/ad materials (aka swag) the MUST offer him the sawg, or else they are in breach. BTW He has also carefully worded his contract that his work is "work for hire" - they don't hold up their end of the bargin, copyright remains HIS
One Gent I used to work for (who is here on
Remember, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate for
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
You are right - interns are treated as full time employees, and for the duration of the internship (typically ten weeks), they get pretty much all the sops that full time employees get and get invited to all team events.
The funny thing is, having interned for them thrice, (over a period of three years) I never saw any discrimination against the temps (orange badges) in my group. They were always accorded the same respect as any other employee. Maybe my group was an exception.
In '94-'95 I was both a Microsoft contractor (they called us "variable employees") and a full time employee, so I've seen it from both sides. Let me make one point crystal clear: my job duties as a contractor and as a permanent employee were identical. The only thing that changed upon being hired permanently was the color of my badge, increased employment benefits, and higher social status in the company.
The management absolutely treated contractors as second class employees, as completely disposable. Here's a story to illustrate: I worked in the end user phone tech support division. After I was hired on as a permanent, the decision was made to cut ALL contractors due to low end user support demand. My roommate at the time was a contractor, and he was given his walking papers. He had more time at the company than me, far more recognition for his skills, was a member of the trouble ticket escalation team, etc., yet he was fired for no other reason than that he was a contractor. (along with about 400 others...)
Most of the posts here have to do with consulting/permatemping in the IT field...permatemping in the non-IT field is slightly different, since the pay is usually quite a lot lower, and there are a few other things of note.
I worked for the financial services arm of a large european auto company (whose name begins with B and ends with W) and the cost to the company for me was just a little bit lower than for a regular employee, when extra administrative costs and temp company costs were added in. The claim was that headquarters in Germany specifically authorized headcount, and apparently that took ages to do, so the only solution was to have permatemp employees.
They did make some effort to move employees over, except for the fact that, since we were a "bank" of some type, they took credit issues seriously. You could get hired as a temp with bad credit, but you couldn't get hired as a perm with bad credit, and worse, if the company found out about your bad credit in your application, you jeopardized your temp. position.
That essentially meant that we had permatemp employees making a lot less than regular employees stuck in permatemp positions, and oddly enough, they sorta of worked up the ladder in the permatemp system, so they were often people who were somewhat key to the system based on their knowledge and experience.
The other odd thing was, after I left, that temps could apply for full time positions in the first month they worked in a position there, or after a year of working there. They could not apply for a full time position in months 2 through 11. This apparently was to reduce the amount of talented temps jumping into perm jobs ahead of other perm employees. The reports I've had are that if the temp is talented and realizes this, they just go elsewhere after month 1.
I do have some sympathy for the badge issue, in that it can be symbolic (we didn't have the same issue ourselves per se, temp badges did not have photos on them, and I was ecstatic to have a non-photo badge, and the perm employees were always cheesed off that they had to have photo ones. Perhaps a person who liked being photographed would have had a different attitude on it.) Our symbolic issue was the car, in that a perm employee could get a really great lease on a car after one year of working there. When I first got there, the time working as a temp was counted toward your one year...however, shortly before I left, it was decided to change that so that only the time working as a perm employee would be counted for that year. It caused a bunch of us to leave, since it was such a symbolic disappointment. (I drove a Saab anyway, a vastly superior car, which admittedly kept me on their shit-list.)
I volunteered to be a notary public (we had a use for a few of em.) The cost of training a notary was $40, but the company didn't want temps to be trained, no particular reason why. If a temp came in as a notary, all the cooler; and it would have made a lot of sense for them to train me, since I was there at times when most of the other notaries werent, yet, they didn't want to.
In the long run though, it was the pay...the difference between the $17/hr of a perm employee and the $10/hr of a temp was heartbreaking at times. I'm glad I'm no longer there.
I was a contactor for Verizon Wireless, they kept me on for over a year and a half before a layoff but they also employ the same tactics. Our emails are in the form of username_ and our badges while not blaze orage they hav NON-Employee in big bold letters on the front.
We also dont get any discounts or are invited to any company events. Even the emails about it emphasize that contractors are not allow.