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Internet via the Power Grid, Again
Damon Campagna writes "This NYT article, Internet via the Power Grid: New Interest in Obvious Idea says the FCC is looking into power-line networking again. I thought this was pretty much debunked a couple years ago?"
Most homes have powerlines, phone and TV cables going inside. These three mediums, add radio, are the obvious ones to deliver internet through.
So if the momentum has built for DSL and Cable, why push for the third option too? It all started with DSL, but the telcom companies squeezed things till the development on Cable started. Now, at least here in Toronto, the same Telcom companies are squeezing both these mediums, thus pushing for the possibilities on power lines.
Ideally, cities should have fibre lines going into homes controlled by a government department, that allows private companies to deliver the Internet and not compete with them.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
There are already trials going on in Scotland for IP over power lines, which aparently have been very successful. The only problem is that RF engineers are up in arms over the interference caused by transmitting high frequency signals through overhead power lines. They may have a point - the RF spectrum is a precious resource, and it would be a shame to waste it to save a bit of effort laying cables.
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
Everyone knows about the problems with pylons acting as transmitters but there is actually another reason why the electricity grid is highly unsuitable for transmitting information over.
The problem is that the higher frequency signal you used for the data transfer slightly distorts the 50HZ sine wave used to carry the power. Now for a lot of appliences this isn't a problem but for applications where a pure current is important (high end hi-fi comes to mind) this will severly impact on the performance of that device.
Sure it's trivial to incorporate rectifiers into new devices but do you want to be the guy from the electricity company having to tell people that they now have to replace their $5000 amp?
...with my computer, I have a choice of unplugging the net connection if I don't like it for whatever reason. But if the connection is both always-on, and through the same feed that I need to power the computer in the first place, I lose another bit of control over my own equipment. And yes, I always have my computer connected anyway, and yes I have a firewall. But I would not want for example my TV to be connected to the internet (so it can transmit the programs I watch). And with internet over the power grid I may at some point no longer have a choice.
It worked quite well, especially since it had a built in power source. Gotta wonder why more folks aren't running the LAN off of this principle.
Though if you were going to do this on any large scale, you MIGHT want to equip your appliances with a band-pass filter to prevent the higher frequency signals from interfering with your switching power supplies.
It won't work for any large organization, unless someone can figure out a way to implement packet switching. Your collision rate would be terrible with everybody connected to a giant dumb hub. I'm pretty sure the same traffic protocols used for wireless would solve this problem too.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I don't see how this could be economically viable in a large scale. Not that it's not possible in small highly controlled circumstances. If a city decided to upgrade it's electical infrastructure to allow this then sure. But it seems like to make this work on *any* electrical lines would be tremendously difficult.
Can it be done? Yes. Will this be the cure-all for rural broadband? Probably not. Not because it's not possible but because the $$$ won't make it worth the capital outlays it would require.
--- We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.
In short it is possible, but using the relatively insensitive machines that were proposed once before, without changing the specs of the power currently being transferd, the signal would have to be so strong that the electricity grid would radiate excessively, And the proposed means of shielding that raditaion is so expensive so as not to be worth it.
It CAN be donel. You do realize that your phone's run off of the electriicty supplied by the phone line (I.e. unless your phone has an answering machine it does not need to be plugged in.)
There are 3 Barriers to doing it, and if we conquer ANY one of those barriers we can do it: [li]Use far more sensitive reading and writing mechanisms (or a dramitcally different method). [li]Use good RF shielding on the power lines [li]Change the power grid specs dramatically.
While changing the shield or the power grid specs dramatically would require a massive revision of our powergrid, the first option is VERY likely to occure with the next 10 years, if it has not already happened, and will not be expensive or require masive upgrades.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
"I thought this was pretty much debunked a couple years ago?"
.... i mean entrepreneur... and his particular invention which would have brought endless bandwidth at light speed to power lines. The physics seemed a little screwy on that "invention", but this is just old fashioned sending a signal down a wire. So nothing new here in physics circles.
The article you reference talks about a particular scammer
This has more to do with business and legal issues than new technology. Just happens that power companies already have big cables running to every home (right of way) and they are just trying to figure out an economical way to use them for telecom. Just as the cable companies did. Except the electrical distribution grid is not as easy to convert as the cable networks were.
?
another american who assumes the rest of the world is still buring whale oil for light.
the only difference between Europe and US is how the voltage is wired in the house. the power grids are identical - except that most of the world runs on 50Hz AC instead 60Hz which is used in US, Canada, Mexico, and Japan.
three phase 440VAC 50Hz is standard residential service throughtout Europe. wired to the outlets at 220VAC.
residential service in the US is 2 phase 220VAC 60 Hz. wired for 110 VAC to the outlets.
but three phase is available at the transformer on the top of the telephone pole outside if you want to come up to european standard.
we also have DSL, GPRS, GSM...
and pretty good coffee without having to go to Starbucks.
Did not see this in your post.
The US uses induction transformers, how will the signal get through the transformer? There is no touching wires, one coil induces a charge in the other coil.
Just curious.
Ameren Corporation (Power Company) in Saint Louis, MO is in a trial phase right now. In fact, we have been working on this for some time. There is an article on CNN under the technology section which mentions Ameren too.
So....will this make it easier to surf the net with my waffle iron?
www.ameren.com