Java based???
by
Beetjebrak
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Does a smartcard actually run a Java VM? I've always been under the impression that smartcards contain only data, and that applications run on the machines you plug your card into. Java-based smartcards sound like marketing speak to me really.
-- Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
Big Brother or Good Sense?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I'm very conflicted over the concept of a national ID system. One the one hand it could overcome many of the inadequacies of our state based identity system, like the ease of creating a viable fake. But combine a national ID system with a national database and I can just hear the Big Brother proponents rubbing their hands together in glee, as well as looking for an opportunity to persecute every illegal alien in the country. If the United States gives in to a national ID in the name of replacing an outdated system, must we at the same time provide the government with yet another tool to restrict our privacy?
Good or bad?
by
Blaine+Hilton
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I realize there are many great uses for these Java cards, but I'm not sure if making it a national ID card is the best idea. The government can easily use this against the people and the privacy concerns are enormous. I believe a better implementation would be for banks to issue such as with credit cards and such, not as a device that every citizen may be required to ware.
Re:Good or bad?
by
Blaine+Hilton
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Great response!
I believe you hit it on the head about trusting the government. Here in the states we have 2 main political parties. Many people don't vote just because you can only vote for the lesser of the evils. You don't get a "warm fuzzy" feeling for voting for the good guy, because they are all pretty much a bag of liars.
Lawers and politicans.... can't live with them and can't live with out them
I did see Minority Report, that's very true...Identies will ALWAYS be stolen, if people are determined to do something, they will. I quote Jimmy Buffet "Keys and locks are destined to be busted." By making it harder for the average person (or con "artist") to do some illegal, they'll work that much harder..
"Jan Deprest, President of Fedict, the Federal ICT department" said in the article:
It will allow Belgian citizens to authenticate themselves in an easy and
completely secure electronic way whenever they access e-government applications.
[emphasis added]
Sounds like he's (she's?) been listening to a snake oil salesman at Sun. Last time I checked, nothing was completely secure, least of all smart cards...
Re:Well,
by
primus_sucks
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Personally I've had two identity theft incidents. One time someone in Japan (I'm in the US) used my credit/debit card number and cleaned out several thousand dollars from my bank account. Another incident, someone printed or obtained fake checks with my name on them. With the present system anyone with a laser printer can make checks and anyone who works at restaurant or gas station can collect credit card numbers. At least this system will hopefully make it harder. And hopefully if someone does steal your card or something you won't be held accountable for damages.
Re:I'm in conflict...
by
stuffman64
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· Score: 3, Interesting
"national ID card" : bad
I agree that a national ID card is bad; we've been over it many times before. However, I am all for a national standard for driver's licences. I work at a fairly busy convience store at Penn State University, and oftentimes I have the privledge (if you can call it that) of selling cigarettes to help college students kill themselves faster. Since the town also has quite a large secondary school system, it is absolutely necessary to card everyone who buys cigarettes as not to sell to minors.
Checking licences is quick, but is not as convienient as you may think. Since many students are out of state, I see at least 7 different states' licences (and thier many variations) at each shift. Every state has a different layout, orientation, and material (for instance, New Jersey licences seem to be nothing more than laminated paper, while PA licences are thick plastic cards). Worse yet, no state ever puts the date of birth in the same spot. While this may not seem like a problem at first, it is quite time consuming to constantly scan cards for DOB, picture, and expiration (as you cannot sell cigarettes to someone with an expired license).
If everything was standardized, things would be much less time consuming. I know people become mighty frustrated when they have to hurry off to get drunk with their friends but need thier smokes right now. What would be so hard about having a standard layout? States could still embellish and add thier own features for security or other reasons, but to anyone who works with IDs all day, this would surely make life easier. The whole vertical layout for people under 21 is also a good idea, as it is really easy to tell if someone is of age by the orientation of the license, but it seems as this may be too easy to fake. Any ideas?
-- ---
At my sig, unleash hell.
Re:What does java actuall add to an id card?
by
yintercept
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Of course, you don't need Java for this, but you need a smart card with a CPU inside
The functionality is still more important that the language. You pass a bunch of blips into the card and get a bunch of blips out.
Sounds like the big advantage of the technology is that the id the store gets isn't your actual private key...but a derivative produced from the key.
The cards can't actually prove identity of course. But it sounds like it would be a little bit more difficult to steal someone else's identity.
But I jump back to the point that the language itself is independent of the functionality. The Java Branding is just Java branding.
Re:Please upgrade
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Interesting
I know you meant this as a joke, but here in Belgium we've already had a smart card for medical data for quite a while. And, yes, you do need it to get your prescription at the pharmacy.
Re:Why is national id cards / numbers bad ?
by
Wateshay
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Well, I can't speak for anyone else around here, but I think they're bad for two reasons. The first is practical. I just don't think that a national ID card (java or no java) can be made secure enough yet to justify the amount of trust that those who don't understand security will invariably put in it. If you have a number of different cards, then you aren't "putting all of your eggs in one basket."
The second reason is philisophical. Although it may make life easier, or even safer, I don't feel that the government has a right to know where I am at any given time. Over here in the U.S., we have social security numbers, too. We even have social security cards. They're not ID, though. In fact, technically, no one except the Internal Revenue Service and your employer are allowed to ask for the number (they do, but that's a different discussion entirely).
The defacto ID over here is the driver's license, which is issued by the state. These have become the ID of choice for use in identification under most circumstances, because most people have one and they contain your picture. The difference between a driver's license and a national ID, though (other than the fact that the DI is issued by the states and the NID would be issued by the Federal Govt.) is that no one is required to carry a driver's license unless they're actually driving. A police officer can't come up to me on the street and ask me for my ID because I'm acting suspiciously. Even if he arrests me for something, he can't require me to show him ID. He may be able to find it out anyway if he searches me and finds ID, or if I have a criminal record and he matches my fingerprints, but the point is that the burden of identity is on the government, not me.
You may not agree with me, and may think it's silly since 95% of the time they can find out who I am anyway, and would not have much trouble finding me if they cared to look, but it is an important issue to me. It's not about being afraid of the government tracking me. For the most part I'm not afraid of the government (although I would like to ensure that the govt's powers are limited in case at some point in the future I do need to fear them). However, for me it's about freedom, and being required to present ID to the govt limits my freedom. So, I do "give a fuck" if there is a national ID card, and I hope this clears up a little bit for you why I feel that way, to a degree more than just "National id, bad".
--
"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."
Re:I'm in conflict...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
"Today is the deadline for males from the second round of Arab and Muslim countries and North Korea to register with the United States immigration authorities under new security rules. Amnesty International is calling on the US authorities to ensure respect for the human rights of non citizens and to review the special registration process to ensure that it is administered fairly and complies with the principle of non-discrimination under international law."
I'm from Belgium too, and knowing some people who are with the police, they always say it's not necessary to carry it all the time. It's enough to be able to show it once you get home; it happens they drive you home in order to do that. But I don't know if that's law or just standard procedure.
Even that happens very infrequently. I'm 28 know, and I had to show my ID card only once to the police, and that was when I moved and a (very friendly, by the way) police man came to check that I was really living there. Oh, and once when I was driving home and I had to stop for alcohol control; though I don't remember I had to show my ID card, perhaps my driver's license was enough.
-- This sig under construction. Please check back later.
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Does a smartcard actually run a Java VM? I've always been under the impression that smartcards contain only data, and that applications run on the machines you plug your card into. Java-based smartcards sound like marketing speak to me really.
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
I'm very conflicted over the concept of a national ID system. One the one hand it could overcome many of the inadequacies of our state based identity system, like the ease of creating a viable fake. But combine a national ID system with a national database and I can just hear the Big Brother proponents rubbing their hands together in glee, as well as looking for an opportunity to persecute every illegal alien in the country. If the United States gives in to a national ID in the name of replacing an outdated system, must we at the same time provide the government with yet another tool to restrict our privacy?
Go calculate something!
I did see Minority Report, that's very true...Identies will ALWAYS be stolen, if people are determined to do something, they will. I quote Jimmy Buffet "Keys and locks are destined to be busted." By making it harder for the average person (or con "artist") to do some illegal, they'll work that much harder..
Sounds like he's (she's?) been listening to a snake oil salesman at Sun. Last time I checked, nothing was completely secure, least of all smart cards...
Personally I've had two identity theft incidents. One time someone in Japan (I'm in the US) used my credit/debit card number and cleaned out several thousand dollars from my bank account. Another incident, someone printed or obtained fake checks with my name on them. With the present system anyone with a laser printer can make checks and anyone who works at restaurant or gas station can collect credit card numbers. At least this system will hopefully make it harder. And hopefully if someone does steal your card or something you won't be held accountable for damages.
Checking licences is quick, but is not as convienient as you may think. Since many students are out of state, I see at least 7 different states' licences (and thier many variations) at each shift. Every state has a different layout, orientation, and material (for instance, New Jersey licences seem to be nothing more than laminated paper, while PA licences are thick plastic cards). Worse yet, no state ever puts the date of birth in the same spot. While this may not seem like a problem at first, it is quite time consuming to constantly scan cards for DOB, picture, and expiration (as you cannot sell cigarettes to someone with an expired license).
If everything was standardized, things would be much less time consuming. I know people become mighty frustrated when they have to hurry off to get drunk with their friends but need thier smokes right now. What would be so hard about having a standard layout? States could still embellish and add thier own features for security or other reasons, but to anyone who works with IDs all day, this would surely make life easier. The whole vertical layout for people under 21 is also a good idea, as it is really easy to tell if someone is of age by the orientation of the license, but it seems as this may be too easy to fake. Any ideas?
--- At my sig, unleash hell.
Of course, you don't need Java for this, but you need a smart card with a CPU inside
The functionality is still more important that the language. You pass a bunch of blips into the card and get a bunch of blips out.
Sounds like the big advantage of the technology is that the id the store gets isn't your actual private key...but a derivative produced from the key.
The cards can't actually prove identity of course. But it sounds like it would be a little bit more difficult to steal someone else's identity.
But I jump back to the point that the language itself is independent of the functionality. The Java Branding is just Java branding.
I know you meant this as a joke, but here in Belgium we've already had a smart card for medical data for quite a while. And, yes, you do need it to get your prescription at the pharmacy.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else around here, but I think they're bad for two reasons. The first is practical. I just don't think that a national ID card (java or no java) can be made secure enough yet to justify the amount of trust that those who don't understand security will invariably put in it. If you have a number of different cards, then you aren't "putting all of your eggs in one basket."
The second reason is philisophical. Although it may make life easier, or even safer, I don't feel that the government has a right to know where I am at any given time. Over here in the U.S., we have social security numbers, too. We even have social security cards. They're not ID, though. In fact, technically, no one except the Internal Revenue Service and your employer are allowed to ask for the number (they do, but that's a different discussion entirely).
The defacto ID over here is the driver's license, which is issued by the state. These have become the ID of choice for use in identification under most circumstances, because most people have one and they contain your picture. The difference between a driver's license and a national ID, though (other than the fact that the DI is issued by the states and the NID would be issued by the Federal Govt.) is that no one is required to carry a driver's license unless they're actually driving. A police officer can't come up to me on the street and ask me for my ID because I'm acting suspiciously. Even if he arrests me for something, he can't require me to show him ID. He may be able to find it out anyway if he searches me and finds ID, or if I have a criminal record and he matches my fingerprints, but the point is that the burden of identity is on the government, not me.
You may not agree with me, and may think it's silly since 95% of the time they can find out who I am anyway, and would not have much trouble finding me if they cared to look, but it is an important issue to me. It's not about being afraid of the government tracking me. For the most part I'm not afraid of the government (although I would like to ensure that the govt's powers are limited in case at some point in the future I do need to fear them). However, for me it's about freedom, and being required to present ID to the govt limits my freedom. So, I do "give a fuck" if there is a national ID card, and I hope this clears up a little bit for you why I feel that way, to a degree more than just "National id, bad".
"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."
Really.
"Today is the deadline for males from the second round of Arab and Muslim countries and North Korea to register with the United States immigration authorities under new security rules. Amnesty International is calling on the US authorities to ensure respect for the human rights of non citizens and to review the special registration process to ensure that it is administered fairly and complies with the principle of non-discrimination under international law."
Even that happens very infrequently. I'm 28 know, and I had to show my ID card only once to the police, and that was when I moved and a (very friendly, by the way) police man came to check that I was really living there. Oh, and once when I was driving home and I had to stop for alcohol control; though I don't remember I had to show my ID card, perhaps my driver's license was enough.
This sig under construction. Please check back later.