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Women Need Larger Screens for Desktop Navigation?

Mac of Macistan writes "In a recent article in the New Scientist, Microsoft's R&D claims that women have a harder time navigating the desktop because their spatial abilities are roughly 20% lower than men's abilities. Maybe Linux UI people can get a jump on MS by making KDE/Gnome more accessible to more females."

34 of 607 comments (clear)

  1. Then why do they.... by dcw3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    keep telling me that size doesn't matter!?!

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
    1. Re:Then why do they.... by jpkunst · · Score: 5, Funny

      I suppose you haven't been paying attention to your e-mail lately?

      JP

    2. Re:Then why do they.... by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Funny

      Then why do they.... keep telling me that size doesn't matter!?!

      Maybe in your case their lack of spatial acuity works in your favor.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    3. Re:Then why do they.... by jwilson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I want to reply to this comment because I want to have my comment as close to the top as possible.

      Slashdot SERIOUSLY messed this article summary up. Women do NOT have "problems nagivating the desktop". According to this article, women have less spacial cognizance when it comes to 3D environments such as FPS, MMORPG or games like Myst. 3D virtual worlds, NOT THE DESKTOP.

      What I DON'T want to see is a bunch of jerks spouting "women have a harder time navigating the desktop" than men, because Slashdot farked up their summary of the article. I mean, SERIOUSLY FSCKED it up. Desktop = 2D. Get it straight, boys... A lot of your readers only read the summary snippets and don't bother with the articles.

      For this kind of readership, you may just have spawned a whole new inaccurate generalization about women.

      Thanks, we needed this new kind of misinformation.

      I have no problem with the article, but I have a BIG problem with the summary snippet.

      Get it right.

    4. Re:Then why do they.... by marauder404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't matter -- Slashdot still deserves the blame. By being a part of the media, it has a journalistic responsibility to report things with integrity. It has to do due diligence when reporting things and has to verify that the summary accurately reflects the contents of the article. In this case, the summary clearly does not accurately reflect the article cited. Slashdot has editors who carry this responsibility and ensuring that submissions that are picked and branded as "News for Nerds" is actually news, not just what sounds like news. Otherwise, Slashdot needs to rebrand itself as a rumor mill and let the expectation be set that way. I realize that Slashdot isn't the New York Times, but it simply cannot post inaccurate/inflammatory/biased information and summaries and not expect people to react to it.

  2. Uh-oh by itchyfidget · · Score: 4, Funny

    But widescreen will make my butt look bigger!!!

    *wail*

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  3. What a girl wants... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Maybe Linux UI people can get a jump on MS by making KDE/Gnome more accessible to more females."

    Uh... yea. Because Linux and women go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

  4. 3D, not desktop by Brown · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not about 2D desktop navigation, but about orientation in a 3D environemnt such as a computer game or a 3d design program. It appears be that the restricted field of vision with a small screen makes it hard for women to build a mental map of the enviroment and locate themselves within it.

    The arcticle speculates that this may be due to evolutionary reasons; men are on average better at spatial-awareness for navigation when hunting, while women wouldn't have needed such skills looking after the home camp.

    1. Re:3D, not desktop by videodriverguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe currently, but Microsoft is known to be working on including 3D elements on the desktop.

      So in the future it may be useful to allow for a gender related setting.

    2. Re:3D, not desktop by shine-shine · · Score: 5, Funny

      Finally, I'll now have a scientific explanation why 'some poeple' shouldn't be allowed to drive.

      Humor. Don't shoot.

    3. Re:3D, not desktop by Surak · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work as a CAD systems administrator, and it's true that when women see some of the wide screens that are available, they immediately want one. Guys tend to think they're cool, too, and they may want one, but women almost seem to demand them.

      Of course the number of women as opposed to men who are in the automotive design and engineering fields is disproportionately low, and this may actually be one of the reasons. Interesting... :)

    4. Re:3D, not desktop by vondo · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The arcticle speculates that this may be due to evolutionary reasons; men are on average better at spatial-awareness for navigation when hunting, while women wouldn't have needed such skills looking after the home camp.

      This is one of the things discussed in a book called "The First Sex." The thesis is that men and women are different, because of evolutionary pressures. The author also argues that the areas where women excel over men (e.g. social coordination, as mentioned in the Counter Strike example) are the very skills that are going to be most needed in the near future, so women will continue to play a larger and larger role in the work force.

      An interesting read.

    5. Re:3D, not desktop by dasmegabyte · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of course, the underlying problem with this thesis is the presumption that men hunted while women foraged. While this seems to make sense to us, seeing as we've been dealing with the male breadwinner stereotype for at least the past thousand years, the archeological record does not necessarily agree with it. While there is evidence that men hunted, there is no evidence that they did not assist in the foraging and domestic chores, and in fact fingerprints in pottery seem to indicate that both men and women shared in these.

      Keep in mind that hunting was a difficult enterprise, physically strenuous and dangerous. You couldn't just nick off to Wal-mart and buy a 22 -- you had a sharpened stick and some obsidian flakes and that's about it. So it makes evolutionary sense that cultures that kept their women away from the hunt would prosper -- fewer dead or injured women that way. That doesn't mean that men did nothing else -- there's a lot of evidence that foraging was the primary source of food. Anybody who thinks women were just going to shut up and let the ment lounge around while they toiled hasn't been nagged to clean the garage.

      Yeah, I think there's an evolutionary benefit to nagging.

      My Intro to Archeology professor was a feminist (ostensibly because he had an open marriage and wanted to tag some college tail, not happening the guy was sleazy and still wore tight jeans from the 1970s) and loved to bring up the dichotomy between the classic "Man as Hunter/Scholar" and post modern "Woman as Gatherer/Nurturer" theories of human evolution, as well as what was supported by the meager evidence. In essence, it seemed to prove that neither sex "had it easy" and he went on to tie this into the historical record and a nice long lecture about how modern gender roles are thrusting women into the workplace without removing their previous roles in the home and how this is changing faster than men's roles and how men should clean the the house more, blah blah. I kinda slept through most of that.

      My wife, however, took excellent notes, which she is referring to to this day.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    6. Re:3D, not desktop by j3110 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there any science to this article at all? I see references to numbers, but no ways that they obtained them other than asking MS.

      This seems like a lot of BS to me. Women just don't seem interested in 3d games like most men. Therefore, I would suggest that we men develop more skill in the 3d world of computers than women at an earlier age. Most 3d games are about violence which is undeniably a greater part of male human mentality than female.

      I happen to know women that will destroy you in counter-strike, and I'm sure most of you do too. If a girl played as much video games as men, then I bet you wouldn't notice a difference. Also, women using computers more slowly than men can be attributed to the fact that men are also generally more interested in technology at a younger age.

      I don't think interest in technology is genetic though. I think it's a product of society. Girls are encouraged to imagine the perfect guy and starve themselves until they are married it seems. Boys are taught to protect siblings, themselves, women, and property with violence or by violence from a child that learned that violence is a solution to problems from fighting parents. (or even television like The 3 Ninjas, TMNT, etc.)

      I dare them to try children with equal experience with computers. If it had been a reputable "discovery" I think that is where the research would have began. Or try men from third world countries where technology isn't available.

      I think the trend will change the more technology is required to live and the more games are made for women (The Sims, Sim Park, etc.) or at least genderless (snood et al).

      --
      Karma Clown
  5. Orientation by Whigh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, that would explain why most men don't stop and ask for directions, eh?

    Wider screens and more realistic 3D animations, they say, will boost women's spatial orientation and 3D map-reading skills to match those of their male counterparts.
    Heck, this'll boost anyone's spatial orientation.

    Women, they found, find it easier to get their bearings when this animation is smooth and realistic, rather than jerky.
    Just about everyone does.

    Is it possible that with more intensive training, this spatial perception inequality might be eliminated?
    (Hint: Use this as an excuse to get more UT2K3 playing in!!!)

    1. Re:Orientation by Galvatron · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Yeah, I noticed that they didn't say if men experienced similar boosts in performance if they were given larger screens and smoother animations too. It seems to me that it's just as likely that the men were rushing, while the women were taking a more cautious and careful approach. Did they compare accuracy rates? 20% difference in cognitive performance seems pretty high, I'm not sure I buy it.

      Also, why divide people based on gender? I'm sure SOME of the men had poor spacial oriention, and SOME of the women must have been good at the task. Why not simply divide people into "fast" and "slow" groups based on performance in the initial set of tests? They don't seem to have done any testing to determine if solutions which seem to work for average women also work for under-performing men.

      --
      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
  6. Gender Equality by LordChaos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... This one will really make the sh*t hit the fan in terms of gender equality. To make a blanket statement about the abilities of either gender is bound to form harsh criticism from many fronts.

    I mean perhaps the "spatial ability" of the different genders is tuned to a different form of interface. Perhaps the symptom we should be addressing is that current user interfaces are designed for use from the male aspect, and therefore the generic woman (whatever that is) functions in such an environment.

    In my psychology days we looked at many examples of studies that were swayed in a particular direction to to flaws in the testing procedures.

    Not to say that this article in new scientist really backs up its claims - statements such as it seems .. that women possess lower spatial abilities, and it tends

    But that's aside from the point - I can accept that men and women interact with a user interface in differing ways. But to suggest that taking a "male" user interface, and making it bigger - to adapt it more to the "generic woman" (see above) - I find ludicrous, and a vast underestimation of the task at hand.

    I'm just stirring, but I think it's really something to think about in the next decade as we move away from windowing environments to whatever is next - be it 3D interfaces on a 2D display, virtual immersion - or whatever... We need to think about things more than "lets make it bigger".

    1. Re:Gender Equality by robbway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't this article actually show some contradictory evidence to the hypothesis that women are less spatially apt?

      A larger screen doesn't increase your 3D visualization ability. It simply increases your sensory input--namely sight. The article implies the hypothesis that what women are seeing affects their thought processes.

  7. Idiotic conclusion by jeorgen · · Score: 5, Interesting
    To make a difference between men and women WRT 3D user interface design is completely idiotic. It is much smarter to make a difference between people with high spatial ability and low. You can measure it. It just takes a littler longer than to check the genitals.

    I score very bad on spatial ability, and I am a man. My father does the same. Incidentally we're both computer consultants.

    Wouldn't it be smarter to say that people with low spatial ability need bigger screens for the same performance? Why the gender thing? Battle of the sexes?

    /jeorgen

  8. Re:Sounds like... by itchyfidget · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...sexist scientific research to me. The usual men are better than women crap.

    I work in this field of psychology and believe it or not, this is one of the few areas of human performance where genuine sex differences are observed - repeatedly and reliably.

    You can see this principally in the visuo-spatial section of IQ tests. Some authors (e.g. Kimura) argue that this is because IQ tests tap a particular aspect of visuo-spatial awareness and that men are naturally superior in this regard, but that women excel in other visuo-spatial tests which tap different facets of the skill.

    If you go back forty years, IQ tests used to "show" that ethnic minorities were less clever - now it is known that those early tests were highly culturally-specific ("If you give the maid twenty items of clothing to press but she already has another thirty-two from your Ma and Pa, what time can you arrive at your tennis lesson?") - I think in a couple of decades we'll be seeing IQ tests that are a whole lot less gender-biased.

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  9. Re:Generalizations by owenb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    don't you think the few women who DO use PCs are in the almost-like-a-man range of spatial abilities?

    Maybe I've been trolled, but I'll bite anyway. More than 'a few women' use PCs. Every office worker these days has a PC. A large proportion of these office workers are women. Sure, maybe there are less female programmers out there (that's another topic altogether), but not only programmers use PCs, you know.

  10. News Flash by dsanfte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heh. News flash, the genders aren't equal. One of them can bear children, the other can't. Other differences exist.

    Instead of trying to say both genders are equal, why not try this radical approach: accept that one gender has advantages over the other in some areas, and vice versa in others, and use those differences for the greater good!

    --
    occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
    1. Re:News Flash by Galvatron · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Instead of trying to say both genders are equal, why not try this radical approach: accept that one gender has advantages over the other in some areas, and vice versa in others, and use those differences for the greater good!

      How about an even more radical approach: accept that not all members of a given group are the same, and instead of assigning gender roles, encourage people to do whatever they're good at! If that means that there are more men doing tasks that involve spatial orientation, fine, wonderful. But it's absurd to say that women shouldn't do those tasks because they're not as good at them. People are individuals, not averages. Even your example of bearing children is not universal: some women can't give birth. So cut this evolutionary psychology crap and judge people for who they are, not based how a sample group of the same gender performed in a laboratory setting.

      --
      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
    2. Re:News Flash by titzandkunt · · Score: 5, Funny


      "Heh. News flash, the genders aren't equal. One of them can bear children..."

      ...And the other one can walk past a shoe shop

      T&K.

      --
      Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable...
  11. Don't know if it is true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am posting this anonymously because I don't really want everyone to know my medical history, but in 1999 I had a right temporal lobectomy (my brain's right temporal lobe removed) to try and cure me of epilepsy.

    The right temporal lobe is the part of the brain that controls spatial ability, so after it was excised, I completely lost my ability to orient myself, and have huge problems with getting home from the bus stop and things like that. Nonetheless, it has not stopped me being able to navigate a computer desktop at all.

    I am not sure why this is, but I would be interested to know if people like myself were included in this study at all.

    There could be other factors at play here.

    1. Re:Don't know if it is true by itchyfidget · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Gosh, I hope the op worked for you (since it's kinda non-trivial) :-)

      Navigating the computer desktop is a two-dimensional task, which does not require quite the same internalised map of the world as a three-dimensional task like finding your way home from the bus-stop. Experiments with rats and mazes (and rat-sized brain ops) show that the temporal lobe is critical for navigational success. In fact, other areas of your brain are also involved in spatial orientation, but spatially-orienting yourself to use your internalised map of the world cannot really be carried out without the temporal lobe. Saying that, you still have your left temporal lobe, so it is possible that some spatial-orientation functions will still be intact?

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  12. Re:Sounds like... by Erwos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly. People whine and complain about how the DMCA shuts down research, yet don't seem to understand that you also can't do genuine research without an open mind. I think some people would be stunned at the number of genuine scientific areas of study that have more or less stopped because a bunch of liberals told them they were being sexist, racist, or homophobic.

    Women are worse at spatial orientation. Who cares? I'm quite sure there's something they're also _better_ at than men. Doesn't make one gender or the other "better", it just illustrates that certain genders are better at certain things. Saying this is "sexist" is not only stupid, but impedes real scientific research.

    -Erwos

    --
    Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
  13. And remember folks by sielwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That these gender traits are statistics: that means there is a mean and a standard deviation (with probable overlap between men and women). There is no solid demarkation line in biology or psychology that says "No Men/Women Beyond this Point".

    What this does say is that there is generally significant difference between the two groups... so why not use it?

    In the future the key is to ask "Would you like a larger desktop?" instead of "Are you a woman?" Allow personalization without mandating bias.

    Otherwise its like only making jeans in 32"I 32"W and saying to everyone "You better fit into these because this is all you're going to get."

    --
    What is music when you despise all sound?
  14. It's a pipe dream (no pun intended) by gosand · · Score: 4, Funny
    Maybe Linux UI people can get a jump on MS by making KDE/Gnome more accessible to more females.

    Yeah - because now all of a sudden Linux geeks will have some insight into what women want? If they could do that, they might make themselves presentable to women, not design a UI for them.

    On second thought, which is more likely?

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  15. More display helps women more than men by Rommel · · Score: 5, Informative
    The article was very clear on this:

    They found that women were just as good as men at virtual navigation when they had a large computer display. "The gender difference simply disappeared," says Czerwinski.

    To summarize: The article does not state if the larger display helped men or not, but with the larger display, men and women tested equally.
  16. Spatial relations: An observable fact in Tetris .. by adzoox · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Women's spatial abilities can honestly be measured in video games like Tetris as well. An ex girlfriend of mine could kick my butt in just about every video game but Tetris. While I considered myself a great player, she never understood the "stick down the left side theory" of Tetris. Even though I was in high school I understood that she had problems with spatial relations. (many jokes can be inferred I'm sure)

    I noticed it when other girls would play too.

    What's interesting about this observation and what I would like answered is this:

    Why was the Gameboy version the easiest to me? Monochrome?

    Why was the regular, original Nintendo the best version?

    Why was the arcade version so hard?

    Why is the computer version boring?

    Why does it make a difference with how the pieces are colored or how they look?

    I do agree with the find too. Girls see no "gadget, cool" factor in a small TV. I once took a Casio TV on a camping trip with the same girl so she could watch 90210. We ended up having to go out of our way and watch it on a "normal" TV.

    I think the real answer here is that women like consistency and normalcy. I find they hate big screen TV's as much as they hate Casio handhelds. All they want is content! (Something that can also be inferred and suggested)

    --
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  17. Re:Generalizations by silvwolf · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's a joke in there somewhere, involving the letter "t", but I can't quite put my finger on it..

  18. might be a bias in the design and/or test? by fermion · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Although most posters have either joked about or felt insulted by these finding, they may in fact be important and correct. The issue could be, as it is in many cases, that computer products are designed to meet the needs of the designer and not the full range of users. Those who have designed significant products will see the truth in this. We all have fallen to the trap of designing products that fit our use patterns at the expense of other people. We design products that play to our strengths, that minimize the effects of our weaknesses, which result in an overly specific product that is not fully usable by the general populous. This not only causes use problems with non-dominant groups, but also can cause systematic errors in the test itself.

    As an example, let's look at the controversial SAT exam. This test has been, and may still be, written for, by, and of privately east coast educated white people. For example, when the ETS evaluats the suitability of questions, at least in the near past, the questions that make it onto the real test were those that upper class east-coast white people did best on. This not some because of some explicit prejudice, but merely because the conventional wisdom said upper class east coast white people, as a group, were better educated and smarted, and question that they did best with were in fact the best questions. The corollary is that minority off coast people were less educated, and if they did well on a question, it was obviously a bad question.

    Which is to say that history is written by the victors, and critical usability and evaluation points are chosen by the managers and designers. In this case, the computer programs and usability tests may be biased to a male population. Perhaps the issue is not so much screen size, but rather the assumption that a certain pattern of use, or a certain problem solving method, is going to be primary for all users. This is an especially good possibility for 3D technology as it is not yet in wide use, and would be particularly susceptible to these aberrations.

    --
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  19. Cart before the horse by t0ny · · Score: 5, Funny
    Maybe Linux UI people can get a jump on MS by making KDE/Gnome more accessible to more females."

    Maybe they should focus on making it accessible to regular people, and THEN focus on a sub-demographic.

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