Crossover Office 2.0 Released

freakyfreak2 writes "Crossover Office 2.0.0 was just released. Finally can get Office XP apps to run. Here's from the announcement. "The changes in this release are as follows: Support was added for Photoshop 7, Access 2000, Word XP, Excel XP, and Powerpoint XP. glibc 2.3 issues were fixed. The setup GUI was dramatically improved. Tablet support for Photoshop was added. File locking and file change notification support were added. Scripts were added so that the technically inclined can have Windows applications open specific file types using Unix applications, for instance, opening PDF fies with the Unix Acrobat Reader. Many other cleanups and bug fixes were made. " Here's the homepage and here's the change log. I'm still waiting on getting Dreamweaver MX to run."

Comments

nice, but...

[aggieben]

this is pretty nifty, but i think I'll stick with openoffice. I won't have to pay $100 to upgrade it when the next version is released and it's interoperable with MS Office.

You know...

[banky]

it has been my understanding that there's a really great program-loader for Windows applications. It has native window management support, vendor device support, and lots more!

It's called Windows.

I always thought that WINE was a stopgap, a thing to tide you over until your users were comfortable with OpenOffice or whatever. Now we can run tomorrow's Windows apps today. I can't seem to shake the idea that by running Windows apps on Linux waters down the latter and strengthens the former.

Re:You know...

[Diluted]

Some offices need to run Outlook, such as mine, where Exchange is the only way to get your email.. They disabled the web access, so you can't use Evolution's Outlook plugin, and Outlook is the only way in...

Re:You know...

[Anonymous Coward]

As well, I can't see any offices actually moving to use this because of the legal issue. Microsoft doesn't allow you to run their Windows software on anything but Windows, and as wine themselves point out "Wine is not an emulator", so Wine != Windows.

"Yeah, we want to pay $200, so we can use this $500 software, on the free OS. Of course, it may not be strictly legal but that's okay we're sure it won't hold up in court".

Want to use MS Office? Use Windows. Hell, use VMWare if you're that uptight. Want to use Linux, use OpenOffice.org.

Re:You know...

[Camulus]

Think about this. Let's say that in your office you can use pretty much what ever you want on your desktop, except you must run MS Office because for what ever reason they use features in it that OO doesn't support. If it wasn't for Crossover/wine/vm ware etc., then you would be stuck with windows even if 99.9% of the rest of your work would be better suited by another OS. Now imagine being able to run Office on any OS you want. Yes, you are still running MS office, but at least on application suite doesn't decide what OS you must run on your computer. You see wine, crossover office, etc. offer choice. I don't know how many times I have had a friend that has a dual boot machine or uses VM ware because some specific application will not run under linux and they wish they could switch all the way over. This adds choice and I don't see choice ever really being a bad thing.

Re:You know...

[IamTheRealMike]

I always thought that WINE was a stopgap, a thing to tide you over until your users were comfortable with OpenOffice or whatever. Now we can run tomorrow's Windows apps today. I can't seem to shake the idea that by running Windows apps on Linux waters down the latter and strengthens the former.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Wine does a lot more than MS Office. What about all that custom business software that there is so much of? No free replacement for them.

The idea that being able to run more applications than another platform "weakens" it is a position I can't understand. The purpose of an OS is to run applications, not to try and force users to run "pure" apps.

I also don't really understand why people seem to think that Linux native software is better than Windows software under emulation. If the integration is there, who cares what APIs it uses?

Re:You know...

[fferreres]

Crossover is best server chilled when MSOffice is a requirement. You know, some people use other OS and have everything there. I can't even access my home dir under windows (can't say the opossite), and that is just sad... not to say that vendor support is shitty sometimes (for example, my IBM Thinkpad i-series 1460 freezes every now and then under Windows 2000 for unknown issues).

With Linux I was just lucky or something, because it never EVER hangs, and never gives me trouble (witched to gentoo recently because became fored of baby sitting Linux, so i am even happier now).

The point is it is good to be able to separate OS and applications, and specially if the only thing that's preventing you from trying them is Office.

Re:You know...

[Daniel Phillips]

I always thought that WINE was a stopgap, a thing to tide you over until your users were comfortable with OpenOffice or whatever. Now we can run tomorrow's Windows apps today. I can't seem to shake the idea that by running Windows apps on Linux waters down the latter...

I disagree. Wine on Linux strengthens Linux in a number of ways. Quite apart from the fact that there are plenty of users who need or want those Windows applications without rebooting, the mere difficulty of Wine development is a positive factor, leading to improvements in development tools, and in developer's skills. ...and strengthens the former.

Microsoft would disagree, judging from their tactics in the Foxpro-on-Linux incident.

I suppose that Wine is one of the platform threats that Microsoft hates most, but they probably thought that the usual API dance would be enough to combat it. I suppose further that they now realize how wrong that was, mistaking Wine's slow ramp-up time for no progress at all.

Re:You know...

[alienw]

Your argument is bullshit. For example, I like Linux and I absolutely can't stand Windows. Not because it's made by Microsoft, I just don't like the system -- slow, buggy, crashes a lot, bad UI. This is true to a large extent even for 2K and XP.

However, I highly dislike the Linux software options. For example, OpenOffice is slow as hell to load (takes damn near two minutes to load while MS Office under wine takes 10 seconds) and eats a lot of memory. It doesn't support many Word features. It is buggy in places. Every person I've ever asked says that they don't run Linux primarily because of its lack of software choice. If you want a decent word processor, you have to use OpenOffice (which, incidentally, works considerably better under win32). If you want a graphics editor, you have to use Gimp, even though it is buggy and lacks many essential features. I'm not even going to go into the custom proprietary Win32 software that almost any business has. What does one who needs commercial-quality software have to do? Stick to windows.

Crossover and Wine are good solutions to this problem. They allow you to use commercial software that the vendor has no intention of ever porting (like MS or Adobe products). They run at pretty much the same speed on Wine as they do on Win32. Wine is improving steadily and will soon be able to run all major Windows programs.

Expecting everyone to switch to OpenOffice and GIMP is like expecting everyone who drives a car to replace it with a bicycle. It might work for 5% of the population, but not for the other 95%. Most people who use MS Office, especially at work, cannot just start using OpenOffice and risk sending their boss Word files with wretched formatting.

Crossover Plugin

[Necrotica]

This is good news for the Linux community and it IS a good product. But the thing that gets me is that when all is said and done, Linux users and companies adopting Linux end up paying more to use software than they normally would if they were to use the native Windows applications. Afterall they need to buy a license for each workstation running WINE. I know the price doesn't make it prohibitively more expensive but its just sort of ironic. Don't ya think?

this is key to linux adoption

[b17bmbr]

before i get flamed or trolled, there are lots of great apps that run on windows, apps that don't come from microsoft. if a company can keep their same apps, running atop linux, then it will make migration much easier, even possible. then, when the install base of linux goes up, companies will offer commercial apps on linux.

the problem that linux desktop adoption has is not quality nor quantity. there are plenty of both. there is always that one app that can't be replaced. microsoft's hold on the desktop is tenuous at best. they do know this. why else all the EULA fuss over foxpro. they have traction, but they don't have momentum. they have a base that HAS TO use their products, but many don't necessarily choose to. this gives businesses one less reson to not look into linux.

Bitch Moan Whine

[Ikazuchi]

Yeah, sure. If you want to run openoffice, more power to you. If there are EQUIVALENT programs that are linux native, I'll use them. However, I don't see any programs equal to Photoshop 7 that are Linux native, and Adobe has stated that there won't be a Linux port of Photoshop.

The GIMP is nice, but it isn't Photoshop. Also, the Crossover office tools are wonderful for those of us in Windows shop who need Outlook, but run Linux boxes for development and just cause we can.

The analogy is MacOS X

[MyNameIsFred]

waters down the latter and strengthens the former

The analogy I would use is MacOS X. There is a difference. Office is available in Mac native version, we're not running under WINE. Nonetheless, I think having Office on the Mac has been beneficial to the platform.

Re:The analogy is MacOS X

[banky]

There's a different analogy with OS X.

Many apps now won't run on OS9, with good reason; either they're hybrid Carbon apps (meaning they use elements of Carbon, but also take advantage of OS X-isms) or Cocoa apps (for which no runtime exists on OS9). However, a quick glance at my Dock (and Fruitmenu) shows way too many apps that still run on OS9 via Carbonlib.

OS X is coming up on it's 4th major release, and still has plenty of warts, but EVERY TIME a developer keeps their "works on OS X and OS8.6+ w/ Carbonlib" alive, they're forcing Apple and the Apple userbase to deal with a world we generally don't want.

It's kind of the same with WINE. I used Linux exclusively for years. Some users I knew, they liked a couple Windows apps here and there. Forte's Agent, for example, was a "must have" for many of them. I'd say, Pan is really good, and uses Agent as inpiration. For years, it was never quite right for them; Agent was "done" and did everything they wanted. Rather than help out Pan, they ran WINE to run Agent (and a few other apps).

Pan lost out on a number of smart, capable users, potentially hindering its growth. Windows, on the other hand, retained users (even if it was via compatibility DLLs and whatnot).

You might say, "It's only a couple of users; Linux can survive that". Maybe, maybe not. I think that when users cling to applications like that, it hurts Linux. Just like people who start Classic on login hurts adoption of Cocoa.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Or...

[IamTheRealMike]

Companies with huge investments in MS Office may well wish to continue running it, while moving away from Windows. And of course, Wine/CXOffice runs a lot more than just MS Office, the name is slightly misleading. If you need CMYK, then you need Photoshop, and if you want to use Linux, then Wine it is.

Important for the Future of Desktop Linux

[north.coaster]

Linux on the desktop in very difficult transition for most businesses to make. In many cases there are thousands of legacy documents that need to be supported after the transition. If the transition is not smooth, then productivity will be affected which in turn will have a major impact on the bottom line. Try convincing the CEO of a large company that they can afford to take such a big risk. It's a hell of a lot easier to justify making the transition in phases, and in many cases it will be easier to switch operating systems while keeping the Office apps.

Many Linux advocates just don't get it. On the desktop, Linux is simply not going to move beyond being a niche environment until it becomes easy for average people to use the Apps that they today. Crossover Office has great potential as a tool to help accomplish this.

Re:Excellent.

[jdray]

Yes, but if there's some app that you just HAVE to run (Visio seems to be the one that everyone puts in this pile, as there's no solid OSS alternative), Crossover Office or WINE would be a good way to get onto the Linux platform. Even if someone ran all their productivity apps under CO, just being on the Linux platform would expose them to the "non-productivity" apps (XMMS, Konqueror, etc.) that would encourage them to delve deeper into free-as-in-freedom software.

Could someone at /. do some editing please.

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I have no idea what this story is about. It's traditional to make the first paragraph of a story a summary of what the rest of the story is about. In fact, when /. was established someone understood this fact and so had the idea of putting the first paragraph of each story on the front page with a link to the rest of the story. But that seems to have been forgotten over the years. This reads like someone just figured something out while sitting on the toilet and couldn't wait to run to his PC to tell his friends about it. It isn't even in complete sentences.

Easy answer.. ACCESS

[nurb432]

OO wont replace Access, yet.

While it may not be the best choice in the world, a LOT of things in business rely on MS Access.

Re:Dreamweaver

[B3ryllium]

Emacs is an operating system, not a text editor. I hear it bundles an almost-okay one, though.

So.. where can i download it ? :)

[nurb432]

Seriously though, since they *are* contributing back to the wine project, I assume that there is enough stability now due to their additions that I can do the same with free-wine?

Or is there to be a delay before the functionality is offered to us people that cant afford it for just personal use.

Why it matters...

[HarryLeBlanc]

Two words -- Microsoft Access.
Yes, I know that OO.o has some sort of database support, but many companies have invested in extensive custom apps in Access, and rewriting these using OO.o's feature-poor database tool is a non-starter.
And yes, I know that Access has a lousy native database, and that postgresql/mysql/firebirdsql can slice & dice those fries for you... or gnoda, or rekall... but serious Access apps have backends in Sql Server or Oracle or some real database. And it's still much cheaper & simpler to buy Crossover office & run the existing app than to rewrite everything (especially if your mickey geeks don't know python or tcl).
I do have hopes that eventually mono will provide a seamless way to port MS Access apps to a native linux app -- and I hope someone on the mono team is working on an application porter for Access apps -- but in the meanwhile Crossover Office is a huge step forward. There really isn't a good replacement for Access on linux yet. Really. But thanks to codeweavers, it's actually possible despite that lack to ditch Windows, switch to OO.o for word processing & spreadsheets, evolution for email,, etc, and run that legacy Access app too.
Mock if you will, trolls, but this is a watershed moment for linux. This frees many companies who are tied to Access but hate Microsoft. It'll be cheaper for IT departments to hang onto their Office 2000 licenses & port the desktop to linux than to upgrade to XP & licensing 6. Then they can migrate the applications at their leisure.

Re:Photoshop you say?

[Ikazuchi]

>> I believe you missed the point.

No, I got the point. I mocked the point. Because I think the point is really wrong and stupid.

>> They are perfectly allowed to make their computer look and act like windows and run windows programs. All they got to do is install windows...

Defeating the purpose of choosing a more stable, secure, and customizable OS. After all choice is only OK if it isn't something tainted by the evils of MS. Right?

>> Linux is nice because it is different. Problem is all these new users don't like it being different, so for some oddball reason they wanna ditch windows so they can recreate, well, windows,

Don't see a problem so far. Look, feel, and programs can be Windows all day long. The OS, however, is just different. More stable. More secure. Can run stuff Windows won't.

>> and they're influencing developers.

I should hope so! That's the point, after all. If enough people need Product X, that runs on Win, but use Wine to run it on Linux, then the developers of Product X will see what OS their users are using and make a native port, or at least make sure the next version works OK under Wine.

>> If Linux was just a sub-par windows clone, why would anyone want to use it?

I completely agree.

Well... hang on for the ride, that's exactly where we are heading.

Uh, what? Unless the hundreds of people developing Linux decide to drive it to be a 'sub-par windows clone' I fail to see how that could happen. Programs do not make the OS. Desktop environments do not make the OS. And nobody, and I stress this, is forcing YOU to make your computer look and act like theirs.

Free better then proprietary?

[msimm]

Remember, a lot of people still use computers *for work*. Open Office is a nice product, but its not Microsoft Office. And its not on par yet.

More to the point, its not reliably compatible (not to fault the developers) and that makes it pretty close to useless in a business world that is dependant on Microsoft Office.

I get the feeling that a lot of 'geeks' who shout about how great the free open source alternative is have never really used Microsoft Office for anything beyond term papers and letters home. Sure, it'll open the MS equivalent of a RTF but throw complicated formatting at it and it bombs. My company uses Excel *a lot* and we have some pretty complicated formulas which we *depend on* to get what we do done. Open Office isn't an alternative. Period.

And its got an up hill battle, because Microsoft Office is actually a good product and businesses expect to pay for this sort of thing just like they expect the service and support that comes with it. A free alternative is just a questionable business decision and one that wont support the way they have done business for the past 6 or 7 years is simply not realistic.

I wish it weren't the case.

I know OSS people tend to be pretty passionate about this sort of issue, but business tends to be pragmatic and conservative. Free doesn't really fit neatly into the capitalistic lexicon. Everything has a cost and uncertainty is one of the worst.

VMware

[Cthefuture]

If you don't mind actually having to run Windows, then I would like to second the suggestion on getting VMware to work.

I've been using VMware since the pre-1.0 beta and have purchased every version since. It's a great product. It's an essential part of my consulting work. I never need to reboot my machine and I can run pretty much any OS I need (including BSD's and Linux) or start complete networks of machines.

Plus I can run MSOffice then way it was meant to be run without any problems at all. I also spend a lot of time in DevStudio under VMware.

For me it works out really good. I run Linux as my primary OS and benefit from the stability and security (I often am plugging into strange and unknown networks so I find iptables very useful). Yet I can still run all the Windows applications I need when working for a Windows based client. I can also run RedHat or whatever distro in VMware if my client uses those (I use Debian). I could go on.

Re:Uh... it's NOT emulation!

[IamTheRealMike]

I know that, I get paid to work on Wine for goodness sake. Nonetheless "emulation" is easier to say that "free API reimplementation" - live with it, please.