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EFF's Cindy Cohn Talks About Patriot Act II

digidave writes "Techfocus.org has an interview with EFF's Legal Director Cindy Cohn, where she talks about the Domestic Security Enhancement Act, or 'Patriot Act II'. She talks about what the act is, how it might infringe on your freedoms, where it does right and how ordinary people can make a difference."

8 of 223 comments (clear)

  1. Singapore by (X)Paul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One day we are going to wake up, and wish we were living in Singapore. Slowly we are losing all of the freedoms and rights that make great innovations possible. The Dark Ages are coming ... great thinkers and great innovators cannot function in a society of fear.

  2. With Bush in power, what do you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bush, the closest thing to fascist we've ever had.

    Just remember what it was like 3 years ago: Economy was good, we had jobs, the President was brokering peace between Israel and Palestine, and our biggest worry was that the President had consentual sex with his adult intern. Oh my.

    Today: Economy is crashing, > 6% unemployment
    rate is common in urban areas across the country, we're in a questionable and bloody war for oil, the same people who bolstered Saddam into power are in control today, Israel and Palestine aren't even on the map, the Bush administration is silencing political critics, and the government wants to investigate your private life to make sure you are not a terrorist, headed by Big Brother himself.

    So much has been lost in just 3 years.

  3. And where is the patriotism? by yintercept · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Patriotism is an act that people take in loyalty to their government. For example, joining the National Guard is a patriotic act. Dictionary.com gives the definition for patriotism as:

    Love of and devotion to one's country.

    Patriotism is an attitude of the individual to the country. Patriotism does not come from the government to the people.

    The fact that some many things are coming out of the current administration with the label "patriot" is extremely disconcerting. The consistent redefinition of terms is the hallmark of dictatorship.

    Regardless of the merits of the act, the fact that it is mislabeled is cause for concern.

    The same is true with the mislabeling of 9/11 as "Patriot Day". The day had nothing to do with American patriotism. The people who died in the terrorist bombing were not acting patriotically. They were being acted on.

    Just looking at the definition...the closest thing we have to patriotism on 9/11 is that the fanatics who took over the airplanes held the belief that they were killing Americans for their country and for Islam. Ignoring our own feelings and looking at the words we see that the terrorists killing Americans is closer to the true definition of the word "patriot" than the non action of the victims.

    Misusing terms is always a grave cause for concern.

    I am not dissing true patriotism. We owe our freedom to people who took the patriotic step to defend freedom. In fact, I would say the misusing of the term is an affront to the true patriot. It dillutes the sacrafices made by American patriots.

    1. Re:And where is the patriotism? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Would-be totalitarian regimes pretty much always redefine "patriotism" as "doing whatever the government tells you to do and singing its praises" -- and its opposite, "treason," as "voicing any opinion contrary to the will of the government." Thus we have the USA-PATRIOT Act, and Fox News (AKA the US Government Ministry of Information) labeling protestors "traitors." This is the first step; the next n-2 steps are to be found in any book on the history of Germany, Russia, or China. Step n involves lots of barbed wire and mass graves.

      No, we're not there yet, or I wouldn't be able to say what I'm saying. But in not so many years, we could be, and anyone who thinks I'm overreacting is desperately naive.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  4. Re:Haha "Patriot" Act ( the cynic in me speaking) by bj8rn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "It only takes a single grain of sand to move the world" - Mao Zedong

    I can't help but begin this post with a cynical remark (sorry, but I've had a bad week...) You don't need masses for a job that one man can do... Lee Harvey Oswald thought he was a patriot, too. And the man who murdered Pim Fortyn (a right-wing populist politician from Netherlands; I don't support that kind of politicians, by the way) said he did it for the sake of the country...

    Now, what I really wanted to say was, that Josef Goebbels would be proud of the Bush administration's rhetorics. I mean, calling a law that just invites people to be unpatriotic "The Patriot Act"... Another thing that's just impressive was how in the news today, someone from the Pentagon or US government talked about how the Iraqis may have destroyed all their weapons of mass destruction before the war had begun, and he made it sound as if it had been something unspeakable and unheard of ("how dare they?" was the message)...

    Please think about it a bit before modding me down. Then my karma at least served some purpose.

    --
    Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
  5. We're Americans: Let's Stand up for our Freedoms by reporter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The Patriot Act is one of those pieces of legislation which tests the mettle of being an American or, in general, a Westerner. What makes us different from non-Westerners like the Chinese is that when our basic freedoms are violated, we protest. We support the ACLU. We support Amnesty International. In short, we support basic human rights and civil liberties.

    What will become of the USA if we allow the Patriot Act to continue suppressing our freedoms? Think "China" or "Chinese society". The Chinese in Singapore regularly ban "The Economist", a reputable journal. The Chinese will throw you into prison for holding a peaceful demonstration against the government.

    Note that the Patriot Act curtails the Freedom of Information Act. What happens when government prevents its own citizens from knowing the activities of the government? Think "Chinese government". The Chinese in Beijing covered up the lethal illness called "Sudden Accute Respiratory Syndrome", and this coverup engendered the proliferation of the SARS epidemic to all corners of the globe. Read "China and SARS". Indeed, the majority of Chinese believe that "maintaining social order [is] more important than democracy". This "maintaining social order" means "restricting freedom of speech, press, and assembly". Read "Poll: Hong Kong residents optimistic".

    Both Singapore and the USA are modern societies in terms of technology. Yet, most people prefer to live in the USA, not Singapore, because of the openness and freedom in American society. What distinguishes us Americans from the Chinese is our willingness to support freedom of thought and speech and to support openness in our own government. Otherwise, the USA will degenerate into a nation like Singapore or, worse, China.

  6. Freedom? by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Do you know what fascism is?

    ...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

    Read more here.

    If you live in the US, please think about how your government tramples on every idea of freedom, peace and democracy and then adds insult to injury by trying to convince you that, indeed you enjoy the freedom to say and do whatever you want.

    A democratic regime would never have its president utter the words "with us or against us".

    --
    Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
  7. Book Recommendation by Pettifogger · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you're as outraged by "Patriot II" as most people here seem to be, go get a copy of "It Can't Happen Here," by Sinclair Lewis. Though written in 1935, it draws some spooky parallels to what's going on right now.

    If there's no regime change in November 2004, I'm going to put my plans in action for leaving the country. There are better places to live, and if you're young enough and skilled/educated, you can jump through their immigration hoops and get a passport. You know, like what a whole lot of Germans did in the 30s.

    --

    IAAL