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A New Meaning For Geotargeting At Monster.com

Duke submits a link to this New York Times story, according to which "it seems that Monster.com has taken the U.S. government's policy of sanctions against certain countries and run with it where no man has gone before. Monster 'has deleted resumes that list current addresses in those countries.' and more fun stuff. If you haven't had the opportunity for a really self-rightous post in a while, Monster.com has made it simple for you." Update: 04/28 01:34 GMT by T : Note that the New York Times ran the story, but like many other newspaper stories, the real credit goes to the Associated Press.

40 of 419 comments (clear)

  1. uhh by deadsaijinx* · · Score: 4, Insightful

    it's their service, it's 100% free, and something tells me they covered there ass in the EULA. Is it nice? is it moral? probably not. But it is their company, and their service. Is this smart of them to do? Probably not, bad publicity could spell disaster for them.
    If you don't agree with me, then discuss your view point, don't just mod me down cuz you disagree with me. FP.

    --
    YOU SUCK BALLS!
    1. Re:uhh by Coocha · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Probably not, bad publicity could spell disaster for them.

      Isn't monster.com a corporation based in the USA? Maybe it's not even bad publicity, considering current events. They say any publicity is good publicity ;-)

      Ride the apocalypse...

      --
      May the threads progress competently.
  2. In other news.... by Musashi+Miyamoto · · Score: 4, Funny

    Monster has removed all resumes with Arab-sounding names and has forward their contact information to der fuhrer^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Mr. Ashcroft.

    1. Re:In other news.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just give it a few more years -- he already started sliding down the slippery slope about a year ago when he began locking up US citizens without a trial.

    2. Re:In other news.... by istartedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly how does protesting against the policy of detaining citizens without due process make one a "communist"?

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  3. Makes sense to me by George+Walker+Bush · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If we have sanctions against other countries, people from those countries shouldn't be able to make money from jobs or companies in the US anyhow. So we are just preventing them from violating the law.

    Thank you and God bless America.

    --
    George W. Bush
    President, United States of America
    1. Re:Makes sense to me by localghost · · Score: 4, Funny

      Are you really the President? That would be pretty cool if GWB posted on Slashdot.

    2. Re:Makes sense to me by sigxcpu · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dear Mr President,
      If I mod you up, will you find me a nice job in the DC area?

      (p.s. since I just posted to this discussion, I can't mod it any more.)

      --
      As of Postgres v6.2, time travel is no longer supported.
    3. Re:Makes sense to me by ChemicalSpider · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Monster.com only removed resume's that list "current address" from sanctioned countries. So if a guy from Afghanistan came to the US for work, well he can list his US address as his current address on his resume and it won't be deleted. The only reason he doesn't have a US address, if he came here for work, is if he is an illegal immigrant, and in that case he can't post on Monster.com anyway.

      Also, it might be pertinent to point out that I seriously doubt that Afghanistan is under sanctions right now, seeing as the US is trying its darndest to establish a democracy there. Killing whatever economy it may have is not a good idea.

    4. Re:Makes sense to me by Malcontent · · Score: 5, Funny

      " Are you really the President? That would be pretty cool if GWB posted on Slashdot."

      It can't possibly be him. All the words are spelled correctly.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    5. Re:Makes sense to me by alonsoac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sactions against countries are often imposed because of policies of the administration of that country. It does not mean that every single human being in that country deserves that treatment. I figure that often people seeking jobs abroad are trying to escape from a regime that they dislike. If someone form country X comes and asks for a job and proves he can do it, am I supposed to tell him to fuck off just because the president of his country is an asshole? Hmm, I think the president of my country is an asshole, but I sure didn't have anything to do with that.

  4. The American Way by Metallic+Matty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After all, if its not the American Way, its the highway.

    This isn't quite as bad as the "Freedom Fries" bullshit, but its pretty bad.. Can't people deal with the world at large without placing labels on certain ethnic groups, nationalities, etc. Perhaps that's too much to ask.

    Yay patriotism..

    1. Re:The American Way by Jhon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are three basic ways you can deal with a country that is unfriendly or just plain mean -- once diplomatic pressure fails.

      (1) Ignore them (Has little effect al la China)
      (2) Sanctions (Cuba, Iraq, Libia)
      (3) War

      Do you have any suggestions? Remember, "dealing" with people goes both ways. All the worlds problems aren't the fault of the US.

    2. Re:The American Way by deadsaijinx* · · Score: 4, Insightful

      lets not try diplomatic pressure at all? lets try true diplomacy. let's try to see their problems, express our own problems, and then have an intelligent negotiation with compromises that leave people satisfied. Course, we'd have to assume that politicians are socially-conscious and intelligent persons capable of actually caring that the world is a better place for everyone. Course, they dont, which is why we have the other three options. sad.

      --
      YOU SUCK BALLS!
    3. Re:The American Way by Talez · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about those hostile states that possess dangerous weapons? I'm not just talking Iraq here, America's got nukes and the President isn't a nice person.

    4. Re:The American Way by EinarH · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There are three basic ways you can deal with a country that is unfriendly or just plain mean -- once diplomatic pressure fails.

      Where is this obsession on "dealing" with a country come from? Why do you have to deal with a country?
      Ignoring* a "evil" country/regime/place worked fine in the case of USA vs. Soviet Union. Eventually Soviet Union broke down inside by itself without any serious war.
      Think about this: If the Soviet Union had existed today it would probably be one of the Axis of Evil- states. Bush-administration plans for preventive/pre-emptive warfare probably would have resulted in an attack on this "evil empire". Imagien the result if every other country on earth should start to "deal" with counties they don't like?
      China would have started to deal with Taiwan, Japan and India. India would follow up with Pakistan. Russia would deal with some former republics... And Africa and the Middle East would be in total chaos.

      *Ignoring here means not going to war or placing sanctions, not to ignore it completly or quit paying attention to a country.

      (1) Ignore them (Has little effect al la China)
      Wored fine on Soviet Union. (in this context a little war over Vietnam/Afghanistan/some South-American contries don't count) It will probablly work on China in some years too.
      (2) Sanctions (Cuba, Iraq, Libia)
      Cuba: Castro still rules...Do I really need to say more?
      Iraq: 600000 childrens dead under the sanctions; didn't work, Instead they strnghtened Saddams regime.
      Libia: I would call it even. Sanctions have crippled their economy, but Ghadaffi still in power.

      (3) War
      Going to war over every disagreement ain't a long term solution in conflicts.

      Do you have any suggestions? Remember, "dealing" with people goes both ways. All the worlds problems aren't the fault of the US.
      I agree. I think this is the problem with some parts of the corrent US administration; failing to see that they don't have to try t correct (in terms of correcting with military force) every regime they don't like.

      But what I don't like about about your rethoric is that you try to limit the possible actions USA can take against other countries into two possibillities; either
      1. Do nothing. When some republicans talk about this option on dubius radio shows they make it look like this is bound to result in every fucking country whom disagree with US will start supplying Osama with nukes.
      2. Harsh reactions like sanctions or war.

      When you do that, you and everyone following your rhetoric fail to see that there are other options; such as trying to work out a deal trough UN.

      --

      Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.

    5. Re:The American Way by Jhon · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Ignoring* a "evil" country/regime/place worked fine in the case of USA vs. Soviet Union.
      Yeah. We ignored them. Sure.

      Ever hear of the Cuban Missle Crisis? We had a gun on their temple for over 40 years -- and they had one on ours.

      We did EVERYTHING we could to force them in to economic ruin. "Ignoring" was never an option.
      Cuba: Castro still rules...Do I really need to say more?
      Yeah. Say more. Like the part where Cuba suffers from such an economic burden that it can in no way be a threat to the US.
      Iraq: 600000 childrens dead under the sanctions; didn't work, Instead they strnghtened Saddams regime.
      While luxury palaces were built and funds skimmed off the "oil for food" programs. Yeah, that was the USs fault. It did do quite a bit to keep them from rebuilding their miltary to any great degree.
      Libia: I would call it even. Sanctions have crippled their economy, but Ghadaffi still in power.
      See Cuba.
      But what I don't like about about your rethoric is that you try to limit the possible actions USA can take against other countries into two possibillities
      Then you missed my point. I said AFTER diplomacy fails. What I dont like about YOUR rethoric is that diplomacy seems to be the ONLY option. It's not.
      When you do that, you and everyone following your rhetoric fail to see that there are other options; such as trying to work out a deal trough UN.
      And the UN is so good at working things out, huh? There's a huge number of dead in Rwanda, the Balkens, Ivory Coast, etc... that might disagree with you -- were they alive to voice their opinion. The UN is a good place to TRY and work out deals, but it's not the END of the road when it fails.

      12 years of the UN unwillingness to either hard pressure Iraq or otherwise force Iraq to disarm should be a CLEAR example of this. 17 resolutions... 17. A piece of paper doesn't do anything to destroy poison gas -- but 250,000 highly armed soldiers sure do.
    6. Re:The American Way by maxpublic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about just leaving the rest of us the fuck alone?

      Buddy, I'm an American and I can't get my government to leave me the fuck alone. Hell, I can't even get my neighbors to leave me the fuck alone. What chance do you furriners think you have?

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    7. Re:The American Way by maxpublic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And the UN is so good at working things out, huh? There's a huge number of dead in Rwanda, the Balkens, Ivory Coast, etc... that might disagree with you -- were they alive to voice their opinion. The UN is a good place to TRY and work out deals, but it's not the END of the road when it fails.

      As an American, I say "what fucking business is it of ours?" Not a single one of the so-called 'threats to national security' is any threat at all, if we just mind our own goddamned business and stop trying to impose a 'Pax Americana' on the rest of the world.

      I don't want an empire, thanks. And no, I'm not so fucking paranoid as to think that every goddamned Third World country is out to 'get me' and that I have to conquer one of their asses every once in a while to show who's boss. That's the purview of dick-measuring loons, much like our own King George.

      Let the world work out its own problems. All we need are places to buy things from, and places to sell things to. Other than that the rest just isn't our goddamned business.

      Unfortunately both the government and my own people seem to think that *everything* is their business nowadays, including my own private life. Seems to me the only thing that'll teach the average American to keep the fuck out of my life and the life of others is to bitch-slap the cocksuckers into submission, much like those very same cocksuckers are doing to others right now.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    8. Re:The American Way by Buzz_Litebeer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree, but for a little bit different reason.

      If we are going to have "diplomatic" solutions to everything, then any country in the world can "threaten" and then get diplomatic solutions right?

      If we were in the world of Pre-Bush strong handed politics, what exactly would we be doing if say... Cuba, said "hey guys you know back in '68, we really do have nukes" and say... someone more "level headed" was in office (level headed I mean, and facetiously, a far left liberal) would they "give" Castro whatever he wanted, if thats what he said. If he said "lets do a diplomatic solution" what "diplomatic" solution COULD there be in a case like that?

      That is something I always wondered about Saddaam Hussein, we had 12 years of attempting "diplomatic solutions" and they found that when "diplomatic" people were in power (Clinton God bless 6 years of financial bliss for the country) the situation in Iraq got worse considerably, because the person we were contending with was not searching for diplomatic solutions, he wasnt searching for "compromise" unless you mean "compromise" as "you give us everything we want, because what your doing now only makes you look bad" as compromise.

      I think that the United States WAS justified in attacking Iraq, the only thing I feel is that it was not done soon enough. The United NATIONS should have done something about it earlier, the problem with the United Nations, is it really is as teathless a body as the League Of Nations (for those of you that miss that, its the ones that watched hitler do what he wanted prior to WW2).

      The United States IS the teeth of the U.N. without the U.S. the U.N. has no teeth. We have shown that against Russian technology, we can litterally take destroy an entire modern army into mush within 90 days (not talking about iraqi freedom). The only countries with as modern equipment are the European countries, and the thing is, they will always take a diplomatic solutiion before going to war, and it doesnt even need to be to there advantage, because you can stall them..

      That is all this has shown the world, yes a lot of people HATE the U.S.A. but the thing is, it reflects JUST AS BADLY on the United Nations, and how does that reflect on the world?

      The thing is shows is that.

      1. If the U.N. goes and says something, lets say against a foriegn power that attacks its neighbors, its sanctions against that country mean nothing to its leaders.

      2. It shows that the U.N. cannot control its own members, IE the United States.

      Those two things completely invalidate the United Nations as a legislative body, because legistlation means absolutely nothing without enforcement of that legislation.

      And the United Nations does not seem to really enforce its legislation. As for "enforcement" power, the United States has more Enforcement Power than the United Nations, simply because you would never get the United Nations to agree on anything.

      You could have the entire known world going "you know I think these guys are bad" but it doesnt matter a wit if you do not do something about it.

      And I think thats what people really are getting at when they say things like "....Chinese and Russians put as much PRESSURE on IRAQ to comply with the previous 17 SANCTIONS..." (previous post).

      It isnt that they are United States Imperialist Warmonger (which I have seen people say), its simply that there is no faith in the United Nations, the world has not matured enough to have a United Nations, because the world cannot agree on what is right and wrong.

      How does this affect jobs for Monster.com? It is not simple United States arrogance, it is a company trying to obey the spirit of the United States sanctions and Embargos. Sanctions and Embargos ARE OUR Diplomatic solutions, to allow jobs to be exported oversees, and work to be imported, is to CIRCUMVENT our diplomatic solutions.

      People often have the beleif that diplomacy is a peacfull solution to a problem, this is NOT true. D

      --
      If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
    9. Re:The American Way by EinarH · · Score: 4, Informative
      We did EVERYTHING we could to force them in to economic ruin. "Ignoring" was never an option.
      My point was that you don't have to go to military action or start with sanctions to crush a country.
      I wrote: "*Ignoring here means not going to war or placing sanctions, not to ignore it completly or quit paying attention to a country."

      Yeah. Say more. Like the part where Cuba suffers from such an economic burden that it can in no way be a threat to the US.
      Where they ever a treat to US? Yah, maybe 40 yeas ago during the Cubile missile crisis. (you started the whole thing by placing nukes in Turkey BTW. But the Soviet Union did not start with sanctions agaist them even though they also was a country pretty close with a diffrient type of government di they?
      But, you know what? I Castro wanted to blow Miami to pices with a warhead today ( he don't as far as I know) he could probably done it.

      While luxury palaces were built and funds skimmed off the "oil for food" programs. Yeah, that was the USs fault. It did do quite a bit to keep them from rebuilding their miltary to any great degree.
      The luxary palaces was not build from money from the oil-for food prog. UN has stated that 95% of the money in the programm where used correctly (food, aid, drugs etc.) The remaining 5% went for UN admnistration of the program.
      If Saddam built any major new palaces after '91 it was probably from money either from smuggling or from taxes
      Yes, the sanctions worked in keeping them from rebuilding their military. But putting sanctions on a country is not a long term sollution on a problem as it hurts the people of the country more than the government.
      Dealing with whoms fault it is... USA supported Saddams regime greatly (economic support,political and weapons as chemical and biological)during the eighties when it served US interest. Running away and saying it's all one mad mans faullt is to easy.

      Then you missed my point. I said AFTER diplomacy fails. What I dont like about YOUR rethoric is that diplomacy seems to be the ONLY option. It's not.
      I have never said that diplomacy is the only way of handling conflicts. But in many conflict even after diplomacy has ended is it possible to solving problems without the use of millitary.
      In the recent case of Iraq it was your goverment who did not want to continue with inspections. In some cases the use of military force is legitimate, in some it's not.

      And the UN is so good at working things out, huh? There's a huge number of dead in Rwanda, the Balkens, Ivory Coast, etc... that might disagree with you -- were they alive to voice their opinion. The UN is a good place to TRY and work out deals, but it's not the END of the road when it fails.
      UN is nothing more then what it members wants it to be. Noone have ever said its a perfect system.
      In the recent case of Iraq it was in fact USA who did not want to continue with pressure on Iraq and continuing of weapon inspections. Probably because they would not have been able to remove Saddam that way. The UN sanctions where made to keep Saddam from getting WMD, not to remove him.

      According to the UN charter when diplomacy fails and the security council faills to agrre on a resolutions that is the end of the road per se. The fact that your country choose to ignore this and attack Iraq anyway says alot about the USA today.

      12 years of the UN unwillingness to either hard pressure Iraq or otherwise force Iraq to disarm should be a CLEAR example of this. 17 resolutions... 17. A piece of paper doesn't do anything to destroy poison gas -- but 250,000 highly armed soldiers sure do.
      In those 12 years Iraq never attacked any of their neighbours or used any WMD. As long as the inspections had continud it is also unlikly that Iraq would have been able to build, import or use WMD.

      An please show me where that poison gas is hidden will you?

      --

      Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.

  5. Monster.com: Unethical Pirates by Crispin+Cowan · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Two months ago, I posted some job ads (open position) to various forums, noting clearly that I did not want to work with recruiters or third parties. Then I started getting candidate applications responding to a post on flipdog.com (a Monster subsidiary). But I could not access this ad describing my own position unless I paid flipdog.com for the privilege.

    Advice to job seekers: never, ever, ever deal with Monster.com or their subsidiaries. I have monster.com and flipdog.com in my spam filters.

    Crispin
    ----
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc.
    Immunix: Security Hardened Linux Distribution
    Available for purchase

  6. Ignorant Policy by jmping · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The biggest problem in many of the countries that the United States is currently sanctioning is that (relative) poverty has driven people to hate the United States. Terrorism is a funtion of that very hatred of our economic superiority. The only way to deal with a problem like this is to address the economic discrepancies between our nation and theirs and help to allow countries and people that have gotten left behind to join the global community. By preventing US companies from hiring these people, job sites can exacerbate that discrepancy and become part of the problem instead of a possible solution.

    --
    **When craziness is bliss, 'tis folly to be sane**
    1. Re:Ignorant Policy by Erwos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So let me get this straight: it's OK to kill people because you're jealous of them? "I'm poor, so you deserve to die" is a corrupt, immoral philosophy, to say the least. Screw "cultural differences" - I haven't seen a single religion that says it's OK to kill someone and take his stuff just because he's done better in life than you.

      Also, why is it the US's responsibility to address the economic discrepancies? At the end of the day, the only person who can improve your lot in life is you. Certainly, it makes no sense to _reward_ countries which we consider our enemies with economic aid. It only amounts to simple blackmail. I also doubt that sending money to a corrupt regime would prove effective for anything except lining Swiss bank accounts.

      Throwing money at a problem isn't the solution. Some of these countries are still trying to get a grip on the aftershocks of centuries of BRITISH and FRENCH colonialism. If anyone's fully responsible for cleaning up some of those places, it's those two former colonial powers. Don't underestimate cultural problems which arose with colonization, such as corruption and the like. But, of course, it's much simpler to blame the US, as any /.'er has seen.

      This is not to say the US is blameless - indeed, every country makes mistakes, and the US certainly made more than its fair share of them. But thrusting full and total responsibility on the US for fixing broken former colonies is stupid. It is a problem which needs to be addressed by _EVERYONE_. The policy may or may not be ignorant, but your solution is certainly naive.

      -Erwos

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
  7. Associated Press by ramzak2k · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is an associated press article and u can access it without the registration here

    --

    Siggy Say, Siggy Do
  8. Proofreading wotj pleasure by AllieA · · Score: 3, Funny

    ".. including immigrants wotj ties to some of the countries in question.."

    Glad to see the New York Times have their spellcheckers working correctly.

  9. I hope this doesn't start a trend.. by switched4OSX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hopefully, companies will realize that there is some talent out there that cannot be filled by a US citizen. I'd like to see Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf get his own late -night talk show. He'd beat the crap out of Conan or Letterman (or at least strenously deny there presence).

  10. Old news, out of date by ActMatrix · · Score: 4, Informative

    Monster.com has already partially retracted this new policy. Now you just can't pick one of the blacklisted countries as a place you'd like to work. News.com has the updated story.

  11. Re:uh by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you can't even send so much as a marshmallow peep to these TERRORIST-RUN states, why the heck would you HIRE anybody from there? We should sever all ties with these corrupt regimes.

    The corrupt regime or the people over whom it has dominion? They aren't the same thing.

  12. Off Topic: Spyware? by Seeker51 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Didn't know where else to put this, but I hope that one of the admins here will see it. A lot of your adds seem to be trying to install the Avenue A Inc. Cookie on my comp. Is Spyware really something Slashdot should be supporting?

  13. Sanctions Instead of Military Force? by pantropik · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Here is an interesting article.

    An excerpt:

    The sanctions against Iraq, and the massive, long-term human suffering they have inflicted, have undermined this common view of sanctions. Since 1991, international agencies have documented Iraq's explosion in child mortality rates, water-borne diseases from untreated water supplies, malnutrition in large sectors of the population, and on and on. The most reliable estimate holds that 237,000 Iraqi children under five are dead as a result of sanctions, with other estimates going as high as one million.(2) The deaths from sanctions are far greater than the number of Iraqis directly killed in the Persian Gulf War -- an estimated 40,000 casualties, both military and civilian.(3) But the sanctions are shocking not only because of the extent of the human damage, but also because the suffering has been borne primarily by women, children, the elderly, the sick, and the poor; the state and the wealthy classes seem to be inconvenienced, but are otherwise exempt from extreme hardship.


    All this while Hussein et al were shitting on golden toilets. Did the sanctions hurt Saddam? Sure. But the damage done to the Iraqi people was orders of magnitude worse. Twelve years of sanctions, and what was accomplished? The task of removing Saddam through the use of military force was made easier, I suppose. But the primary reason for using sanctions in the first place is to avoid the use of military force. So, our sanctions against Iraq inconvenienced Saddam, killed a quarter-million children, and failed miserably at their stated purpose.

    Way to go, Monster. That'll teach 'em.
  14. Why does it matter... by PhiloHmm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...it's not like anybody is really hiring, sponsoring visas, etc. That and it sounds like a publicity stunt to me (no such thing as bad PR).

  15. Re:And this surprises you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With ideas of "this isn't fair", "people are poor and starving over there", and if you go to any sort of liberal rallies you will see people using very expressive (sometimes overly exaggerated speech). Keep this in mind, this is a common technique to excite people and get them involved emotionally in your cause. And emotions have no place in logic.

    HA HA sorry man I was totally with you up until this part of your post. I really don't think you can point the finger at libbies on this one.

    How about when the president says "september 11" in every other sentence? How about whenever somebody says a certain law is unconstitutional, the other guy says "3000 lives lost ... tragic events of 9/11 ... post-9/11 world ... blah blah".

    Seriously, when the guy across the table is talking about people who died in terrorist attacks, you'll look like a FOOL if you question his plan to install cameras in every bathroom around the country at a taxpayer cost of billions of dollars.

    How many people die in a year from non-terrorism related accidents..let's have some perspective...whenever somebody invokes the "tragic events of 9/11" he should be removed from the table and replaced with someone who can make a reasoned argument.

    They interviewed the guy who was pouring expensive French champagne down the toilet and they asked him why .. he said "because 3000 of my countrymen died on 9/11" .. that doesn't even make any SENSE... but you can't say anything because invoking the ghosts of those people who died instantly shuts up all critics.

    Cop: "Why did you just run that red light?"

    Me: "On that tragic day September 2001, the world changed."

    Cop: *sniff* "Yeah, shit, what was I thinking .. go ahead man .. may God be with you."

    Emotional manipulation is at the core of any politician's speech.

  16. Soo by autopr0n · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose you think it's perfictly alright for a club keep out black people? or for a company not to hire mexicans?

    Just because you own something dosn't mean you should be able to do whatever the hell you want on it.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Soo by Robert1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm so going to get modded down for this "negative opinion" but here it goes anyway.

      Yes, a private club should be able to do anything they please. A company that provides a free service should be allowed to give it to whomever they please.

      Hey, if I don't want you coming to my house, I can kick you out. If I were to give free car-washes down the street and I don't like you, too bad, you're not getting one.

      The hiring practices of corporations is unrelated to the issue. No one is hiring anyone to work at monster.com, they're simply denying their FREE SERVICE to whomever they please.

      Remember when you walk into a store and they " reserve the right to kick you out for any reason?" Yeah, same idea.

      Public does not equal private.
      Paying service does not equal gift.

      That's my 2 cents.

    2. Re:Soo by GileadGreene · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I suppose you think it's perfictly alright for a club keep out black people?

      Yes.

      or for a company not to hire mexicans?

      Yes.

      Just because you own something dosn't mean you should be able to do whatever the hell you want on it.

      Actually, it does. That's what ownership is.

      I may think that it's stupid and bigoted for a club to not accept black members, and I think I have a right to tell them so, but I don't think it's my right to force a private club to do something it doesn't choose to do. Similarly, I may think that it's idiotic for a company to refuse to hire Mexicans instead of just hiring the best person for the job, but I also think that the company has a right to make that decision. The whole point of private ownership is that the owner of something has control over that something. If they don't have ultimate control, they are not the owner - by definition.

      The advantage of this particular approach is that it not only stops me from forcing other people to things they don't want to do, it also prevents other people from making me do things that I disagree with. I like to have that freedom.

    3. Re:Soo by skillet-thief · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The whole point of private ownership is that the owner of something has control over that something. If they don't have ultimate control, they are not the owner - by definition.

      The whole point of private ownership is that no one can take your stuff away from you. They have to buy it. Private ownership doesn't give you ultimate control over anything.

      If I own a gun, it doesn't mean I can do whatever I want with it. Ditto for a car, and so on. Private ownership means the gov't shouldn't be able to come along and take those things away from me without some kind of due process.

      The basic problem here is that, even if you own something, including a business, you still have to live in society with other people who also have rights. Private ownership doesn't eliminate all concern for other people or their rights, or their aspirations for equality.

      --

      Congratulations! Now we are the Evil Empire

  17. Too much PC bad too by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suppose you think it's perfictly alright for a club keep out black people?

    Sure, I don't have any problem with it. It's perfectly legitimate for organizations that practice discrimination along just about any lines they want to exist. There are a few very specific rules: government organizations and even private businesses when it comes to employment have some constraints on them. It's part of letting ideas flow freely. If people want to hang out with a bunch of other white supremacists and not let blacks join a club, I think they should certainly be entitled to do so. Trying to prohibit something like this becomes completely unenforceable, because race plays a role in all sorts of small organizations.

    However, a business is more than entitled not to sell their product to anyone they want to, if they so choose.

    or for a company not to hire mexicans?

    As long as they're Mexican-Americans, legal citizens of the United States of America, I don't think it's legal to hire based on race, though it can be hard to prove.

    Actually, I wish even this restriction was eliminated. Let natural selection take over. If IBM decides that it doesn't want to hire any Hispanics at all, and Apple does, and Miguel de Izaca works for Apple instead, it's IBM's loss.

    When I see lawsuits like the infamous Hooters one (where a male was suing because he couldn't work as a waiter in a Hooters restauraunt), I get a little disgusted with the state of enforced PCness.

    1. Re:Too much PC bad too by skillet-thief · · Score: 4, Insightful
      However, a business is more than entitled not to sell their product to anyone they want to, if they so choose.

      This is just not true...

      From a legal point of view, all the court decisions on segregration should be more than enough to prove that. A grocery store can't refuse to sell food to people based on race, a restaurant can't refuse to serve people based on race. You can't refuse to sell your house to someone for racial reasons. Etc. etc.

      The rest of your post just shows how far unbridled libertarianism can lead you.

      --

      Congratulations! Now we are the Evil Empire

  18. Not following American values not always bad by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apartheid?

    Apartheid is a legitimate choice that the people of South Africa decided to live with for a while (and as it happened, went away after a while). I think it's a bit silly, but the US has no business waltzing in and shaking things up. The US has a far darker history of racial problems than most nations do.

    I *do* think that it might be legitimate for the US to push the idea that if someone wants to emmigrate to the United States, and the United States is willing, that the host country should be forced to allow him to do so (barring a few international crimes like spying or espionage). That would solve quite a few problems...if the US wants to allow people to have the US's value system, they can open their arms to the people that want to take part.

    Communism?

    Communism is also a perfectly legitimate view. The only time it's potentially nasty is when it's advocating global revolution and actively trying to foment revolution. Communism was quite popular among intelligentsia for a long time, and we have a Communist Party in the United States.

    Taking over a country to wipe out a communist regime is pretty disgusting, frankly. The US promotes the concept of self-determination, and then simply waltzes into other countries and forces a government and political system on them. You can't have it both ways.