Telemarketer Blows Whistle on Tape-Altering Scam

Recently, Florida-based telemarketing firm Epixtar is frequently accused of cramming an extra $30 onto phone charges of small businesses, yet has proof of legality by recording their calls. Until they laid off some people, one of whom has blown the whistle. The companies' cramming tactics become "legal" by altering those taped recordings to include a quick statement about the $30 charge. MSNBC has the article, including a short audio clip of a sample call.

Comments

Screwed-over employees

[paranoid.android]

Until they laid some people

Well, I guess they really screwed their employees over, too.

Re:Screwed-over employees

[Workpad z50 User]

They screw the public and lay their employees. Sounds like one Fucked Company

Morality?

[dogbox]

What happened to people reporting this sort of stuff before they had a grudge against the company? Why do only former employees report this sort of thing?

Re:Morality?

[Jason1729]

As long as the employees were getting a big enough piece of the pie, they kept quiet. They should be charged with aiding in the crime.

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:Morality?

[Planesdragon]

Because once you air this sort of thing, it sort of kills your career.

It's often better to voice your concerns internally, and work to improve the system from within.

I find it very moral to give a company a chance to improve itself. (How long a chance? About as long as it takes for the would-be-whistleblower to find a better job.)

Re:Morality?

[rodgerd]

People don't do telemarketing jobs because they have in-demand skills and a big pile-o-cash to fall back on if they get laid off and can't find another job once word gets out they rat on the boss.

It may be the right thing to do, but being in the right doesn't keep you off the streets, unfortunately.

Re:Morality?

[RWarrior(fobw)]

> Why do only former employees report this sort of
> thing?

I worked at a newspaper once. In my state, it is legal to carry a concealed firearm if you are licensed to do so. An employer or business may prohibit even licenced holders from carrying their weapons on the premises, and this newspaper does.

My supervisor didn't have such a license, because she found it too restrictive to bother with, in part because she couldn't take her weapon into bars. Instead, she worked a couple of nights a month as a volunteer patrol officer and was certified and licensed as a peace officer in Texas (having had a previous career as a full-time police officer). As a peace officer, she could carry her weapon anywhere, anytime she wanted to. That included bars, restaurants, and her place of regular employment, despite the no-guns policy.

The employer's representative had a meeting with her and they let her know in no uncertain terms that, under the law, while they couldn't prevent her from bringing her weapon to work, there were lots of reasons to fire people.

As a consequence, she left her weapon in the car when she came to work.

People who work for telemarketers typically aren't well paid, aren't in it because they love it, and do have families to support and bills that way outstrip their meager incomes, especially in bust economies where unemployment is rising.

It is illegal to fire people for whistle-blowing under state and federal whistle-blowing statues. A person so terminated can recover in a number of ways. Regrettably, most people aren't aware of their rights and even if they are aware of them, do not know how or do not have the money to invoke and protect them.

Besides, there are lots of reasons to fire people.

Re:Morality?

[tedDancin]

It's often better to voice your concerns internally, and work to improve the system from within.

It makes you wonder what the laid-off employees (especially the whistle-blower) did to try and restore morality internally before going to MSNBC. Would you complain to management if you knew they would never/weren't intereseted in resolving the issue? Or would you just take the final paycheck and go tell the world?

The media is a powerful tool for an employee with little or no power inside their company.

Re:Morality?

[Ian Bicking]

No, that's wrong. What this company was doing was illegal and fraudulent. Companies like this cannot be reformed, you can't improve a system where people knowingly and willingly commit fraud. Hell, you can't believe them when they say they've improved, maybe they've just realized they have to hide their actions from you too.

Not to mention that in a case like this people have been wronged by the company, and deserve redress, which will never occur due to internal reform.

Maybe if you believe the company is doing things that are unethical but legal, then you can try to reform from within. But when it's illegal (or deeply unethical) you have a moral duty to blow the whistle, even if it's going to suck for you. You aren't allowed to put ethics aside because they aren't convenient.

Re:Morality?

[echucker]

But when it's illegal (or deeply unethical) you have a moral duty to blow the whistle, even if it's going to suck for you. You aren't allowed to put ethics aside because they aren't convenient.

Personally, I think that's easier said than done in today's economy. I think a lot more people may find feeding one's family and paying the bills a little more important.

on a similar note via snail mail

[phantomlord]

This week, I received a solicitation which was deceptively in the form of a bill from Internet Corporation Listing Service (ICLS). For $37.50, they offered to list my domain in a whopping 14 search engines.

The solicitation most definitely looked like a bill (front page and back page). The bottom half of the page is a tear away bill stub and the solicitation notice on the top right hand corner is in a lighter font than the rest of the text (though it's harder to notice on the scan).

Fortunately, I'm in the habit of reading all of my bills when they come in, but some people aren't. They obviously got the information from the internet WHOIS database even though that database is explicitly protected by a clause saying you can't datamine from it.

The next morning, I filed a complaint with the United States Postal Inspectors because of the deceptiveness and the likelihood that others will be fooled by it. Here is the complaint I sent:

I received a solicitation from ICLS which deceptively looks like a bill. Located on it, is a tear-away payment stub with a customer number, due date and amount with no reference to the fact that it's actually a solicitation on the stub. On the upper right hand corner, it does state "THIS NOTICE IS A SOLICITATION AND RECEIPT OF PAYMENT WILL CONFIRM YOUR ANNUAL LISTING", however, it is a lighter font than the rest of the solicitation.

While I, fortunately, did not fall for the solicitation, I'm concerned that other people whom aren't as careful could easily be deceived as without close examination, it will appear as a bill.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the postal inspectors to see what they have to say.

More of the Classics

[Michael's a Jerk!]

How to piss off AT&T

A Nice List
Another Good List

50 Stupid things to Say

These bastards are a pet hate of mine. I've tried most of these at one stage or another. If you can keep from laughing, it's fun to string them along :-)

Re:Until they laid some people...

[switched4OSX]

not to mention the size of the severance "package" the boss gives ya.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

To Hell with fair penalties.

[Rai]

I want one of two things: Either the company responsible for telemarketing fraud is fined the entire dollar amount of all assets plus 50% and all employees directly involved in the particular incident receive no less that 10 years in prison and a fine of no less than $25,000 per instance with all fines being equally disputed among those victims of this company's fraudulant operations.

Or I want button installed on my phone that will kill whoever is on the other line.

Don't waste your breath with telemarketers.

[AnalogDiehard]

First they try to twist your responses to indicate an affirmative response for a sale, now this. This is the kind of crap that made me stop talking to telemarketers altogether. Don't waste your precious time with these deceivers, people. Don't even pick up the phone. Get caller ID and ignore incoming calls with no caller ID.

Check out this answering machine for your PC that deals with telemarketers who withhold their caller ID. The software can be configured to hang up on these cases and you will never hear the phone ring. It also implements white lists and black lists. Usual disclaimer applies.

Yes there is a risk of IDing legitimate calls as false positives. However, I've been monitoring my caller ID for over two years and can confirm that this is becoming less of a problem as more bell systems make their caller ID protocols compatible. So the risk is diminishing with time.

Yes this is a drastic move but until the law catches up this is how you have to deal with aggressive deceptive practices.

Caller ID is a godsend people - use it. Yes the telcos should be hung by their balls for extorting extra services out of the customers by selling personal information to scum telemarketers. In my next residence I will register my phone under an alias. If anyone calls asking for the alias, then they are immediately identified as a telemarketer and I will tell them there is no one here by that name. This crap has gone far enough.

Another low trick

[bgeiger]

This actually happened to my dad. Keep in mind my dad works nights, and typically sleeps all day.

Telemarketer: "Hi, my name is [somebody] and... excuse me, can you hear me?"
My dad (still groggy): "Yes."
Telemarketer: "I'm calling to offer you suchandsuch a service... [blah blah blah garbage]"
Dad: "I'm not interested. Goodbye. *click*"

Next month, he notices his long distance service has been changed to (I think) AT&T.

They used his "Yes" answer to an irrelevant question, and turned it into a "sale".

People like that should be thrown in jail.

Best way to handle telemarketers...

[Winterblink]

The best thing to do is to say nothing except that you're not interested, and hang up. Add some expletives for effect if you desire. I've had to deal with some real pushy ones too, and it's amazing how hard they'll try to keep you from hanging up until you say yes to whatever crap they're selling.

The worst was a local newspaper calling around for new subscriptions. He starts out saying what paper he's calling about and asks whether I receive their paper. I say no. Then he starts off on a sales pitch, which I interrupt to say that the reason I don't receive the paper already is that I don't WANT it, since I get my news from the net. The guy actually tries to continue on reading the script or whatever he's got in front of him... took a couple tries to be polite about not wanting what he's selling before I just flat out said "Listen to the words coming out of my mouth. Not interested." and hung up on the guy. In retrospect that should have been my first response.

I'm amazed people still sit on the phone with these bottom-feeders and answer their questions, unwillingly signing themselves up for a ton of crap. It's not hard to tell them to piss off instead of falling for their tactics.

Re:Fun things to say to Telemarketers

[Phroggy]

Of course, the best thing to say is:

"Please add this number to your Do Not Call list."

(Note the important difference between "add" and "remove" - many people ask for their number to be removed, which does nothing - the company has plenty of lists of people to call, so if you get removed from one list, you're bound to show up on several more.)

Re:"Anonymous Call Blocking"

[maxpublic]

Forget call blocking and caller i.d. Do what I did: disconnect your phone and go with a cell service.

Turns out that with all the long-distance calling I do the cell was actually cheaper than the regular phone line. Furthermore, it's illegal to make an unsolicited sales call to a cell - because the cell owner has to pay if *you* call.

Ever since I disconnected my land line and went to a cell (more than two years now) I've been completely telemarketer free. Not one bloody sales call, not even from those hell-fiends at AT&T.

You can't imagine just how much nicer life is when you know that *every* call you get is from someone you want to hear from, or at least need to hear from.

Max

My telemarketing rule #1

[joejoejoejoe]

NEVER BUY ANYTHING.

Never confirm more than your name, and ask for theirs first.

A person/company calling you has you at a great advantage. It could be an inmate of a prison just trying to get your credit card, and all he/she started with was probably a phone book or Internet connection... I mean come on, they almost always BLOCK their source phone number. How can you even remotely trust someone who is hiding behind an unidentified phone number, wanting to sell you something???

It is like social engineering, surely we here on /. are all aware of how that works. (Free Kevin, oh wait, nevermind) But these guys are just plain arrogant about it. Did you hear the womans voice when she was asked to repeat something? She got a real nasty tone. The social response to that is to not ask for anything to be repeated. And voila, he gets nailed with some services and charges he never really even heard, or realized he was buying.

Now what I have always wanted to do, but never have, is when the call starts and they say it may be recorded, I would say "Good, for my records and quality assurances I AM RECORDING THE CALL TOO." How do you think the would respond to that? most likely "Click."

I Recommend a Seinfeld

[michaelhood]

JERRY: Uh, sorry, Excuse me one second. Hello.

TEL: Hi, would you be interested in switching over to TMI long distance service.

JERRY: Oh, gee, I can't talk right now. Why don't you give me your home number and I'll call you later.

TEL: Uh, I'm sorry we're not allowed to do that.

JERRY: Oh, I guess you don't want people calling you at home.

TEL: No.

JERRY: Well now you know how I feel. [Hangs up]

Seinfeld Episode Transcript

what are the stipulations?

[CAIMLAS]

EXACTLY. Having been forced into telemarketing for a short period of time myself (due to financial reasons) I can attest that very few people that are able to continue telemarketing work full time have no souls. I didn't last 40 hours, and the only reason I lasted that long was because i had my fiancee providing emotional support, and I couldn't afford to quit.

In my mind, telemarketing is about as self-damaging as prostitution. I'd probably put it up there on the moral scale, too. Its time we see religoius groups going into telemarketing offices and trying to save their souls.

Actually, I think that a prostiute is lest morally detestable than a telemarketer - at least prostitutes can feasably enjoy their job, and it pays better.

Scary Paradigm

[anubi]

I find it scary when one incurs charges by just a quickie phone call. They have their script all rehearsed and phrased where they can blurt out so called binding agreements, and we are "socially expected" to be polite and give a "timely" response, like on the order of seconds.

What scares me is businesses are arranging with banks on direct account withdrawals, and checking account numbers are pretty easy to come by. I mean, if you have ever paid something by check, they have it. And now, they do not even need a signed check to get withdrawal. So you could see charges showing up on your checking account that you have no idea what is.

And dealing with a business is kinda scary, because they have links to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. They can mess up your credit and then you have to straighten that out too. You might as well pay them their money just not to have to argue about it. I mean, like me - if I get my credit all screwed up over some business that slipped a charge on me for some "professional services listing" and I refused to pay, I might be denied a job because of that stain. And they know this.

So, I try to keep any monthly billing I have to as few of entities as possible. Once a company has legitimate billing access, they have a foot in the door that a telemarketer can use to fool me into thinking I am doing business with somebody I am already doing business with... like the way they bamboozled the guy with the trick 4-in-one question that if he said "yes" ( which was the obvious answer to three of the questions - if the name, address, and number was correct ), he implies acceptance of the quickly stated fourth question - that he is authorized to modify his billing.

With a business model out now that depends on signing up monthly billing, I see the opportunity for scamming artists soaring, as the number of open accounts, ripe for modification, soars.

I continue all attempts to make purchases on a per-instance basis, meaning I pay full price for the product and close the sale, leaving no loose ends. None of this "support", "warranty", "revolving charge account", etc. I walk out the door with the product, and the vendor has been paid in full. That way things don't change after the agreement has been made.

I have done way too much business already with businesses ( especially insurance companies, and any company having anything to do with investments ) that love to send me tons of paper describing changes after I have agreed to something.

Damm, I just don't have time to read it all. I really *hate* to do business under that business model.

This is the thing that had me so worked up over the Lexmark Printer thing ( where Static Control Concepts tried to make an aftermarket replacement toner cartridge but ran afoul of DMCA because Lexmark put a chip in the toner cartridge, and SCC could not legally duplicate the chip. ). Once this paradigm catches on in the business community, I fear we will see the end of going to WalMart to get replacement aftermarket goods for our day-to-day expendables. Companies could demand and get agreements for monthly billings, and once that's in place, the door is wide open for rampant trickery to modify those agreements.