Slashdot Mirror
Slashback: Hawash, Monomania, Rocketships
Yes, charges are nice after six weeks of unexplained incarceration. purdue_thor writes "The various news agencies (CNN, FoxNews) are reporting that after being held for six weeks, software engineer Mike Hawash has finally been charged. His detainment as a material witness and subsequent incarceration without formal charges was discussed previously on /. Friends of Mike Hawash have created a website to publicize his case and have released a statement regarding the charges."
Randolpho adds "The Free Mike Hawash website has released the following affidavit (PDF file) received from the Federal Terrorism Task Force. The affidavit states that Hawash traveled to China in 2001 with several co-conspirators 'in an attempt to enter Afghanistan to fight against United States forces.'"
This just in from the cork-topped bottle. danny writes "One of the disadvantages of living in Australia is that my review copies arrive late. But my review of Google Hacks may be of interest, even after honestpuck's earlier review."
Free as in books. Author John F.X. Sundman writes: "PDFs of the complete Acts of the Apostles and Cheap Complex Devices are available for free download from wetmachine.com under the Creative Commons license."
And Robotech_Master writes "Remember the Honor Harrington CD-ROM, which Baen packaged with its most recent Honor Harrington book? The one that included over three dozen e-books and came with explicit permission to copy and share but not sell?
Well, Baen's done it again. The new CD comes with the fourth book in John Ringo's Aldenata trilogy, Hell's Faire . It includes still more free e-books, mp3s, and even a D20 Aldenata roleplaying game in electronic form. The book hits the stands this month, and the ISO is already available on-line. (Scarywater guy, please take note. :) Download it, burn it, give it to your friends...or buy the book and support one of the most Internet-clueful publishers out there today."
Free as in "you pay money." An anonymous reader submits "The original Douglas Adams Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, was first a book, then a radio series. Adams edited both. All 7 hrs and 30 minutes of the Radio series have been released by the BBC in MP3 CD format. If you only caught the TV series this is a must."
I wish more audio books would arrive like this (compressed, so as to occupy fewer disks), though I'd choose a better method of audio compression ;) If you want to hear the HHGttG, though, a few minutes on Google will probably turn up some fan sites with recordings from the BBC broadcasts. (innocent whistling)
Yeah, but there's no Epcot Center. Sacarino writes "Las Vegas is *almost* on par with Disney now. The regularly-updated Monorail Society website has tons of pictures of the progress. Vegas' monorails are the same type as Disney's (Bombardier Mark VI), only with inwardly opening doors... slick! Also mentions the old MGM-Bally's monorail that's getting absorbed into the new automated network."
Is this what Microsoft thinks of viral licensing? Vagary writes "One of my friends just got a Microsoft router and asked me to check the security features for it. The ping denial doesn't work, which is good because a port scan found some pretty interesting things, including this string in the TCP/IP fingerprint: 'i586-pc-linux-gnu'. Does that mean Microsoft must provide Linux source to purchasers of this product?"
Can anyone confirm, deny or explain this interesting claim?
Click here to discuss the size of a fictional spacecraft ... photozz writes "The infamously slashdotted site comparing the relative sizes of several hundred starships from various Sci-Fi series has been mirrored to a somewhat more robust server. So cool. It's in draggable format, so you can put King Kong on top of Deep Space 9 and re-create a dream I had last night......."
You are doing a disservice to those who live with real memories of what being "disappeared" really meant. This guy is being held, and charged, on really indisputable evidence, and it is a matter of public record. The fact that he worked in your beloved computer industry does not change these facts. Take your whining elsewhere.
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Oh, so he is An Offical Enemy of the State, I say send him to Guantanamo and lock him up for life - due process? Pfth, who needs it.
Considering he went to Hong Kong and associated with 5 people who were trying to fight with the Taliban, it doesn't look to good for him.
Moral of the story, don't help terrorists!
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Nonetheless, I'm going to withhold judgement on the Mike Hawash case, because at this point, assuming the evidence is as presented in the articles I have read, there certainly sounds like enough, that with some dotted I's and crossed T's, adds up to at least probable cause. I just wish our government would abide by its own rules in the way it prosecutes cases like this, and just show the evidence that lead them to make a detention in the first place. If the guy is really a flight risk, or potential danger to others, and there isn't enough to hold him on, then they could have him followed and monitored until the evidence is available, the same as is done with other criminals and potential criminals. I worry about all the exceptions that are made for terrorism, when increasingly, membership in certain non-terrorist organizations, or computer crimes, or other "mysterious" or "destructive" behavior seems to get bunched in with terrorism.
I'll be the first person to tell you that terrorism is never legitimate, and always criminal, and that we should arrest and prosecute and punish terrorists and attempted terrorists to the fullest extent of the law, and Americans who travel to fight in illegal combat with other terrorists get no sympathy from me. But how can we use different standards of evidence and prosecutorial conduct for cases that we don't _know_ are terrorism until they have gone through the courts? Due process doesn't mean due process when we feel like it - it applies to all citizens and residents, and even others within our borders.
Victory! Isn't that what every one wanted, for Mike to be charged or released? So now he's charged. And he's in some deep shit too.
I'm sorry I must have missed the part where he has been convicted of a crime. I also must have missed the part where incarceration without charge was declared to be A Good Thing
What happened to Innocent until Proven Guilty? This is a concept that has worked in the past but hey if you want to throw that away then be my guest, just ask China and Cuba how the other way works.
Are criminals who happen to be techies now lesser criminals or better humans because of this?
Dude, he's not necessarily a criminal. He's a *suspect*. And the constitution has clauses that protect people from being improperly incarcerated; the big deal is this: the US is being fucked over by our own government. We are losing our constitionally-guaranteed rights to a bunch of morons who courted Saddam Hussein 20 years ago (while he was gassing Iranians), and now are suddenly outraged because he *might* have chemical weapons?!?!?
No fucking way! We stand up for our rights, right here, right now. We tell them they will not take another one of us without due process.
We take our country back.
If Hawash is guilty, let it be proven in a court of law, the old-fashioned way.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
The constitution is a basic set of guaranteed rights. Failure to extend that to anyone within your borders only cheapens the document.
Amendment IV
It says person, not citizen. Multiple times.The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
Note: in China or Cuba, you're lucky if you are only sent to jail for speaking out against your government. Some people just get shot.
Okay, this is BAD LOGIC. There have always been nations and people with little to no regard for human rights. There will probably be nations and people with no regard for human rights far into the future. This is not an excuse to be abusive ourselves.
I am not claiming there is a black and white delineation between peacetime and wartime, but there is a black and white delineation between a suspect picked up on US soil and a guy with a gun picked up in the Afghan mountains. If somebody is determined a "spy" or enemy combatant on US soil, I believe that determination should be made using our courts and due process, not summarily made behind closed doors, allowing the military to dispose of them as they please. I don't give a fuck if the Supreme Court upheld doing it once in WWII, it's still wrong. If the person is so clearly a spy, we should be able to prove that in court, THEN execute them.
The scariest part of that 43 page affidavit is where some of the evidence came from. On page 7:
Since when does the FBI collect trash as evidence based on the recommendation of a random neighbor? Or is this a special exception since it contained, huge shock, Arabic writing?
More on page 36:
So, let's get this straight. The first neighbor called the FBI because he recognized that one of the people who had been arrested had been to Hawash's house. That, I can almost understand, especially if there was media attention from the first arrests (seems likely).
The second neighbor, on the other hand, called the FBI because.. why? Let's see, first, Hawash spent more time at home after 9/11. Gee, yes, that's suspicious, only like 80% of the people I know decided to spend more time with their family after that. And second, he wasn't as friendly as usual. But gee, huge tradgedies usually make people so *cheerful*, what could be his problem?
Then, when the FBI actually followed up on this inane call, they found that he started attending a Mosque, dressing in "eastern" clothes, grew a beard, and became withdrawn from his neighbors, in turn associating with other Muslims. Gee, that certainly sounds like he found religion, doesn't it? And while that's arguably not the brightest thing to do, last time I checked it wasn't illegal, even if it's an officially unpopular religion like Islam.
This whole thing is sick. Yes, there's other evidence in there that links him to the other people, that's fine. I'm not saying he's innocent. But the fact that the points above, particularly the 'second neighbor', made it into the report is just wrong.
Would Benjamin Franklin have been arrested as a terrorist if he were alive today!
No, he'd have moved to another country like the pilgrims did. Duh.
If this keeps going, the Chinies might endup having more freedom that the folks inthe USA.
I severely fucking doubt it.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
>>Hawash's neighbors became suspicious after the September 11 terrorist attacks and called the FBI, according to the affidavit. One of the neighbors said Hawash, who worked for Intel, was "spending more time at home following September 11, 2001" and "was not as friendly as usual."
Given the rampant anti-Arab sentiment after 9/11, is this any surprise?
--you'd have to lock up a boatload of US government employees then. Frankly, I wish "we the people" could. Al queda and the bin laden networks were trained and supported for years by the US government. All those caves and bunkers we are blowing up over there got built by the bin laden construction company, financed by combined joint US/saudi funds. The KLA went over night from being labeled a "narco terrorist" gang to "good allies in our fight against "whomever". They said it was milosevich, I say it was to consolidate some drug smuggling routes and grab some mines. Same with some bosnian muslims. Same with a lot of central american goons. And it's still going on, last week a very under-reported story, something like 57 top US companies all getting little joke toy fines for "trading with the enemy",iran, whomever, the "axis of todays badguys" list. None of those CEOs are locked up. I'm sure big fat campaign contributions and serious cash under the table has nothing to do with it. The elite try to not eat their own, they are content with being predators on the herd. Once in awhile they will sacrafice one of their own, that's about as far as it gets.
Naw, the government/corporate cartel is a big fat hypocrite. They can pick and choose and change their minds daily, anyone else is forced to be psychic. We were shipping cash-43 million or so- to the taliban when they were actually destroying poppy fields, whoops! That sure didn't set well with the CIA drug smuggling cartel. Now our "allies" in what used to be called "the northern alliance"-those were the "commies" before and the "bad guys", remember?-well, those guys now have a bumper crop of opium, with supposedly the US all over ashcanistan. Funny how that stuff works, yes? It never really dawned on those in the crooked shadow government, being the chronic serial liars they are, that someone else might actually not lie, and really do what they said they would do, that the taliban would actualy DESTROY the 100 to 200 billion a year opium poppy crop, they thought they would play act at it, like they do in south america with coca. Now that don't excuse any other heinous bogus stuff the taliban did, but destroy that poppy crop they almost completed.
Funny how all the top US administration guys from the twig on down all got long, well established close and complex business ties with the wahabists, isn't it? See any of those bozos getting arrested? Nope, because they are "the government" now and they can "change their minds" and you can't. They can "support" some nation or faction one day, the next day call them "terrorists" and if you as joe peon supported the same exact guys previously now YOU can be a terrorist while joe government just "changed it's mind".
Fat, foul, vulgar stinking hypocrites. Saddam Hussein, old time, long time serious CIA asset, they used him on contract as a hitman, that's how he got his start. He was supported fully for more than a decade, then he just got double crossed by bush 1. That's what really happened. Once saddam was no longer usefull to the goon faction, he got automagically turned into the "badguy". Sure, he was ALWAYS a badguy, so what does that make guys in our own government who worked with him and supplied him all those years, and why ain't they in jail? Oh ya, they can change their minds, they are the "elite", VIPs, *you can't* though.
Sorry, the US government and it's "law and intelligence" divisions are the biggest hypocrites and liars you'll ever meet, at least up into the upper management level I mean. The grunts just follow orders, same as any other regime on the planet. That's why they are using a lot of the same police saddam was using, the same police who dragged people into saddams prisons, who tortured people and killed them, now they are "good guys", on the US taxpayer payroll now. We did that after ww2, operation paper clip, bring over all the foul and disgusting german nazi scientists they could get their hands on, they become "good citizens" magically, got put on the payroll.
Hy
Would Hawash rather be tried under Treason charges?
...
Fro those of us who dont remember wwII
a citizen can be tried fro treason on grounds of takign up arms against the US..
The treason trial and charges are conducted by the military..
and you either get life or hanging..
Hawash should thank himself that he is in FBI custody as a Material witness
He could be in a military brig instead..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Well, I can speak as one of his "coworkers."
Having read the 40+-page aviddavit, I can see that while they are able to match him up with some coincidental pairings with other alleged terrorists, they have yet to provide much direct proof of his immediate involvement. Notice how out of 40+ pages of evidence, only 5-8 pages or so related to Hawash.
As someone who knows Hawash quite well personally, it is bordering on comical the descriptions that the US Justice Dept has given him - they're basically saying that this pudgy family man who favors Costco hot dogs and likes to play soccer with his kids and coworkers will travel to the far reaches of China, and then crawl through minefields into Afghanistan, Rambo-style, to kill American troops. Please. This is pure and simple propaganda by the American gov't as an attempt to convict him in the eyes of the public, using the media as its instrument.
Would the RIAA people please look at the sales figure of Baen and get a freakin' clue?
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
You make some interesting arguments regarding some events you seem to have imagined in your head, but they have very little to do with the actual case of Mike Hawash. Reading the links provided would easily show that.
1. There was no explanation. Through unknown channels, stories appeared in the press about how he was held as a material witness, but Mikes friends and family got no answers to any inquiries about his status. Also, unless he is called to testify in some case, which nothing seems to indicate will happen, the "material witness" label was phony.
2. "in *any* country, you'd expect him to be arrested and charged" Did you miss that the main complaint here is that he was not arrested and charged?
3. Nobody is asking for him to get special treatment. Just his constitutional right to a fair trial, like all other Americans.
4. Are you under the impression that anyone is holding up China or Cuba as models for better legal treatment? Or are you saying that as long as the US is marginally better than the most oppressive regimes on the planet, we should not complain?
5. The crime he is charged with seems to be that he travelled to China and back. Nobody is even alleged to have been hurt by these actions.
Even if he is guilty, which would be very unfortunate especially in this case, that is entirely beside the point. The important point here is the loss of rights under which US citizens can now be detained in this manner. This is what people are protesting, and the point stands that this is a serious problem whether or not he is actually guilty in this case.
Sadly, if it turns out that he is guilty, then many people will forget the important point here - because they will inevitably confuse the concept of defending his basic rights (that all US citizens are supposed to share), with the concept of defending him.
"What are you talking about? After the the reds siezed power, they executed a large number of people they felt were enemies of their new state. And let's not for get Stalin. He'd have to rule a hell of a long time to kill millions of people one at a time. "
You are intentionally missing the point. A common tactic.
The point is that things start small, with fascism such as we are experiencing. Every "victory" over the 20th century that Ashcroft scores emboldens and justifies what he will do next.
Pointing out the horrors of an unrelated social movement is another diversionary tactic. Yes, the Soviet Union was bad, wicked bad. It is also dead. The Mongols were bad. Nazis were bad. McVeigh was bad.
But the present bad, the Fascist takeover of the U.S., is something we can do something about. They are, as someone mentioned, repealing the 20th century in its entirety -- civil rights, control over corporate power, ecologically sane policies... Racism and religious hate has become de rigeur as a not-so hidden justification for what we are doing now. Father Coughlin would be applauding.
Just because we have not killed millions -- yet -- does not mean we will not. Remember (or rather we DON'T) that the U.S. killed two million in Vietnam. We do have a record of ideologically justified slaughter. We just butchered thousands of soldiers in Iraq based on a set of outright lies created outright by Bush's Project for a New American Century thinktankers.
It just depends on who's getting killed. And who cares about them. If a white man from a nice town blows up a Federal building, the members of his ideological movement (militias, christian and otherwise) are not arrested en masse and sent to Cuba. Nothing happens to those loons at all.
But if members of a brown people worshipping a different god blow up a building, the Constitution is ignored, due process is shut down, and we invade countries ('cause they LOOK like the bad guys, all brown, mustached, and worshipping Satan). And we cheer this on, 'cause we must trust our leaders, who have out best interests at heart.
Unless they are a Democrat. Then, during wartime, say when the President is trying to find and destroy the enemy with no friendly media coverage, the Governent is EVIL, and the President can be harrassed with lawsuits, calls for his assassination (shout out to G. Gordon) are ignored by the FBI, and an impeachment can be ginned up on a denial-of-blowjob charge.
Back to point. Big evils can start small, and this, what Ashcroft is doing, is evil on a scale that can compare with any fascist takeover in history, from Caesar to Mussolini. The manner of the change is completely different from case to case. History never repeats itself.
But methodologies do repeat. What we have is, in no particular order:
- identification of an exterior enemy. whether the threat is real or faked up is irrelevant.
- the insistence that previously held rights be surrendered for the safety of all. logic has no sway -- fear is the trigger. well-fanned fear.
- identification of the leader with the heroism of the armed forces.
- elimination of any oversight over the actions of the executive.
- elimination of all public records of the actions of the executive.
- insistence on obediance in the smallest things from members of the elected legislature.
- establishment of government control of the major media. in the present case, it isn't necessary, because the rightist press has become loudspeakers for the executive.
- elimination by whatever means of alternative press, by physical or other means. marketing is one of those means. disinformation is another.
- demonizing foreign countries, pandering to common hates and ignorance (yes, France, Germany, etc).
- commingling the exective government with corporate business power. This was Mussolini's fascism: he at first called it "corporatism", amazingly enough.
- demonizing and
Don't confuse defending the man's rights with defending the man. Maybe he is guilty, but that doesn't make the lack of due process any less noxious. Remember, the rights to due process are your rights too, and that of every other US citizen. You want to excuse this incident because he is guilty? Fine, just don't complain next time its you held without due process for something you didn't do.
I'm rather taken aback at the idea that antitrust legislation is abused. AFAIK it's only been used against bonafide damaging monopolists, and it's worked rather well at busting up until now.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Could you perhaps share with the rest of us this "indisputable" evidence?
"indisputable" in this context probably means that those trying to dispute the evidence risk sharing a cell with Mr. Hawash soon thereafter.