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Cheap Audio Production
OneInEveryCrowd writes "Rolling Stone reports that four out of five new albums are now produced by a program called Pro Tools (or similar packages) that costs $495 for the home version or $15,000 for the pro version. The article describes a fairly amazing savings in time and effort compared to the older ways of producing an album. I realize that a talented producer can cost a lot of money and some bands drink a lot of beer, but why aren't the benefits of lower production costs being passed on to the consumer?"
Here is a Link to the people who make Pro Tools.
--sig fault--
most $ the record companies spend covers marketing and their losses on the releases that fail (which is somewhere around 9 out of 10).
Here is a link to a Potential Free Software Alternative, Ardour
(at least it's being worked on, anyway)
http://ardour.sourceforge.net/.
This isn't a new phenomenon. There was a recent show on VH1 discussing how this was done on the old KISS double-live album from the 70's. They went into the studio and overdubbed certain parts to tighten up the music and gloss over mistakes.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Sorry if I seem rude, but that sounds like a stupid question. When you factor in studio time for recording, the cost of a decent producer, production of cds, marketing, etc, etc, etc, the *one time* cost of your mixing software is pretty much nil. If the billing department at your local garage switched to linux from windows, would you expect them to charge you less for an oil change? Hell no. Lower costs equals greater profit. This is basic business here. Just because it's the recording industry, doesn't mean we should be angry. They do a lot of vile, underhanded things, but this isn't one of them.
do not read this line twice.
Because instead of having 4 studios that are full purposed, folks build their own studios and spend the money on their own equipment than they would have normally at the big boys.
:-) What kind of studios are they going to be running? Ones that are $100k - 300k in just equipment.
In the end, it STILL costs the industry the same amount of money or probably more.
That and the human element has gone up steadily as the pricing of the hardware has gone down. before the Home Recording Revolution occured, I was able to charge $20 an hour to show up and help someone with their gear...generally I was paid for by the studio I was in. NOW I show up at someones home, read the manual to them and charge them $75 an hour and I'm not even what I'd call professional (I've worked with several professional artists in the past and I'm going to be the head music tech for an up coming Al Green show next month, so I work with folks that are VERY professional...still pretty much a hobby for me so I can support my university and its research addiction).
And what happens AFTER folks finish their home opus? They generally head to the bigger studios to polish it up. Producers are going to ask a LOT of front money to work on this -- along with their own engineers that retrack certain items -- and they will STILL ask for points (though that generally comes out of the artists share...EVERYTHING comes out of the artists share
Looking at my HOME studio, I have 2 K2600s ($5500 each), Digital Mixer ($3k), Mac G4 ($3k), PC ($1k)Audio Interfaces for both Macs and PCs ($2k), Software (DAW -- Logic Audio $1k / Softsynths & Effects $2k). Thats almost $25k right there (Heh! Glad most of this was comped as I couldn't afford it). There is NO WAY IN HELL that Vig's entire studio is $15k at Stone tries to make out...I wouldn't be surprised to know it was on order of $150k at the MINIMUM.
BTW the $500 version of the CHEAP Protools is NOT Protools...its a cheap immitation with the same interface. its designed solely as a learning tool to get folks use to what the big boys use and hooked so that they can go into the studio with a little preknowledge OR convince them to buy the more expensive stuff.
Theres no doubt about it, recording a major label album is going to cost a lot of money. Indie albums will be MUCH less.
Don't take my word for it, I run one of the largest Logic user groups dedicated to digital audio. Take a look at:
http://community.sonikmatter.com
and check out our user forums. These folks know what they are doing and we have quite a few folks that have worked on albums that have resulted in precious metal on the wall. Again, I'm just a hobbiest that been caught up with the big boys because I was a geek when they needed technology taken care of and don't consider myself to be anywhere near their calibre -- but its a fucking shame to see that my bedroom studio is bigger and better than Butch Vig's if we are going to take this article at face value.
clif marsiglio
cofounder sonikmatter
It does ALOT (well, this product and many others like Cakewalk, Cubase, Logic, etc...). If you want to compose, you can do so through midi (although, this can be somewhat limiting). You can add effects, filters, etc. You can use it somewhat similar to a software sampler through the use of sound fonts (in Cakewalk).
These programs are amazing. As an electronic artist, you can probably do 90% of your music creation through these programs (although, most artists don't). That and... it's cheap.
So yeah, there are a lot of programs that do this. But Pro Tools is, and has been for a decade, the industry standard in professional hard disk recording systems. Some great things you can do with a Pro Tools setup:
The basic thing is, Rolling Stone is finally catching on to the what musicians have been doing in the mainstream for about 7 years now, and that's completely tapeless recording, and the move of recording out of the studio and into other places. There are enough plugins out there to clean up sound from even very noisy areas, so the need for a completely silent "studio" is much less. Studios are definitely going out of business as a result of this move to home-studio-based recording, and ProTools is generally a compatability requirement.
Me, I use Cakewalk Sonar at home, and this is one area where no free software product yet comes close. I'm on the Ardour mailing list, and use Ardour periodically to see how it's coming along, but definitely nothing there yet to replace my studio setup.
So to answer your question, Pro Tools is simply one of many hard-disk recording packages. However, among professionals it is the most widely used, and boasts a much larger library of compatible software than any competitor. Oh, and until about 4 years ago, it was Mac-only.
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
"voice-tuning (as debuted by Cher on "Love After Life"). able to make a crappy singer perfectly on-key, and since it's matured a little it's much harder to notice"
errrr... that's a vocoder, and the effect is intentional... pitch correctors have been around for decades (since the 80's at least to my recollection) and mature for quite awhile...
Pro Tools is just what the name implies... a suite of tools.. how the user chooses to use them is, well, up to them...
but why aren't the benefits of lower production costs being passed on to the consumer?
On this planet the recording industry is pretty well known for being
greedy. I feel they have been ripping me off for years. When CD's came out they cost twice what an LP or Cassette did. They said that was because they had to build new plants to produce CD's and as soon as they were built and the quantities went up the prices would come down. Well maybe I blinked and missed it, but I never saw a major reduction and I think $18.99 for a single album is outrageous. I refuse to pay that much for a CD. I usually wait and try to find it in the cut-out or used bins.
A few years ago I was involved in a business that sold used CD's and we did some new CD's. From the distributor we could buy new releases for around $12 and super savers were around $10. I am guessing that the distributor only made a dollar or two so that means that the record company was getting $8-$10 per unit. From having checked into producing a CD I could have one made with quantites of 1000 for less than 2$. Therefore I would bet that they can produce the CD's for less than $1 for quantites > 10,000. So lets say they make $8 per cd. To me that's a pretty good profit margin.
I'm also under the impression that they rip the (non-superstar)
artists off.
Bottom Line: I'm not holding my breath waiting for a little savings on production costs to be passed back to me.
Apple allows burning to CD, up to batches of 10 before altering the playlist, so you can burn 10 more CDs, of the purchased music.
GPL Deconstructed
Keep in mind we have no idea how to run the program in the first place.
So, why should I have to pay $20 a CD? I realize with more instruments, there would be more work to do, but this really says a lot: Production is overrated.
I've been backing away from idealism lately, but I honestly think that once more and more amateur musicians get these sorts of programs, it will become common knowledge that it honestly is NOTHING to record decent-sounding music. A professional will be able to make the final touches that Jasbir and I could never make. However, even assuming that this person is salaried at $200,000 a year, this DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE PRICE OF MUSIC.
End of rant.
HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
That's what he implied/said....
"it's depressing how such a featureful tool is used mainly for evil."
ptfree is not the same as protools - ptfree is limited in the number of audio and midi channels, does not work with any of the digidesign hardware, and has limited plugin usage
i o_Menu.htm
read more
http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/ptfree_qa.html
in general, the midi implementation in protools is limited compared to emagic's logic audio
other really good music production suites that won't break the home studio bank
Tracktion
Fruity Loops
Reason
some electronic music producers who use the big software tools occasionally screw around with the cheaper packages and then show how you can make the original song using them - such is the case with Infected Mushroom's "Dancing with Kadafi"
http://www.infected-mushroom.net/Studio/Html/Stud
Ummm...both Epitaph and Fat are members of the RIAA (I would point you to the official RIAA website, but it is impossible to get to). Nice try.
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout.
Well, the over-compression issued mentioned by grand-parent is seriously encouraged by ProTools... ProTools does not do logarhythmic metering - it does linear metering. As a result, 3 dB down from full amplitude (which is 1/2 the power) is 1/2 of the range in the edit window for a track. Down 6 dB is 1/4. Down 9 dB is 1/8. Down 12 dB is 1/16th of the window - and that's the average volume you SHOULD be at (for pop... SMPTE standard is to go down to -18 dB FS for 0 VU). However, do that, and it barely looks like you've recorded anything. As a result, ProTools users are encouraged to record too hot, with too much compression/limiting.
That's just ONE of the flaws of ProTools (can we say clicks and pops due to not finding zero crossings or doing automatic crossfades? yeah...)
-T
Sorry, no - compression makes everything louder (compresses the dynamic range). It does not 'quiet' the less prevelant sounds. That would be expansion, which is entirely different.
Also, uncompressed audio doesn't tend to sound flat and static - it might sound less punchy, but think of a classical symphony that goes between pianissimo and fortissimo... is that flat and static? Nope. However, compress it so that it only goes between forte and fortissimo. Now, it's flat. Punchy, but flat.
-T
However, check out Audacity for a good, free, cross-platform product.
-T
Their glossary of terms has the full definition:
Alsihad: A recording platform that is used to destroy music in general. It makes musicians lazy and sounds like crap too. Some express their unabashed love for Alsihad, these are typically Alsihah (ones who operate Alsihad). Those that express a lack of enjoyment for Alsihad are typically Luddites (those that shun the forward advancement of technology). While Luddites and Alsihah can be best of friends, the more vocal ones are typically at odds with each other, and can't understand what the hell the other is thinking about.
Alsihah: One who operates Alsihad.
It's apparantly called that because if you don't have anything better to record with, it's "All's I Had".
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
There's an argument running through this discussion which on the surface is coherent, yet in practice doesn't reflect reality. It goes like this:
"there is no alternative to brand X, and only one company sells brand X, so there is no viable competition. Therefore, the company can set pretty much any price it wants."
Yep, in a very basic, Econ 101 way of thinking, this is entirely true - up to a point, of course (i.e., where price exceeds consumer desire to purchase). If you have no viable competition you're in a monopoly position (corporate oligarchy, for the RIAA) and you can price fix all you like. So long as you don't raise the price beyond what the consumer will bear you can rake in the profit every time production costs decline.
What folks are missing is that competition isn't limited to these simplistic factors. As price approaches the limit that the consumer will bear, alternate methods of distribution will be developed to satisfy the desires of consumers who wish to purchase the product, but not at the price set by the monopoly. These are known as 'black markets' because they distribute the product without the sanction of the monopoly (and in contravention to law) and at a lower price than the monopoly itself (for goods that *can* be distributed at all - obviously, SAMs and the like will cost more just because distribution exists at all).
The more 'unjust' the price of a product is gauged to be, the larger and more developed a black market becomes. That is, each time you jack up the price of the product (or refuse to lower the price, when production costs decline), more and more of your consumers pass the point where the price is something they're willing to bear - whether or not they can afford the price. If percentage A of consumers find a CD ridiculously overpriced at $15 a pop, this percentage will turn to the black market for its needs. If percentage B of consumers find the price of the CD too much at $16, now percentage A + percentage B turns to the black market, and so on, minus those who simply stop purchasing in any form whatsoever.
(Note: there will also be a certain subset of consumers who find the only acceptable price to be 0. But unlike what many slashdotters seem to believe, in practice this subset is always tiny and has no observable effect on the market for that product. This isn't speculation, it's fact - do some research if you need it spelled out for you. People aren't by nature thieves, and an enormous amount of economic and psychological evidence bears this out; if you think otherwise, this isn't a statement about the character of the human race, but your character.)
The higher the price goes, and the more unjust that price seems to be, the more your consumers turn to the black market instead of buying from the monopoly. This has nothing to do with ethics or morals regardless of what ranting slashdotter decides to scream 'theft!' in response to this post. The fact is, increasing consumer use of the black market is an economic indicator that the product is overpriced and needs to be reduced in cost to the consumer. It's the economic form of 'civil disobedience'; when the powers that be don't listen to your complaints, you take action that hits them where it counts to drive your point home. Even if you yourself are unaware of the results of your actions (you just want cheaper CDs and don't care about the ramifications), from an economic point of view the group that turns to the black market is making a very clear statement about the price of the product provided by the monopoly, whether or not the individuals of that group care a whit one way or another about anything beyond buying the CD for less than the list price.
Unfortunately for the RIAA, there exists a 'black market' in the form of file sharing that makes turning to an alternative distribution source easier than ever before in history. While short-sighted twerps post on slashdot, going on and on about 'stealing' and 'piracy' and whatnot, this
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
The bigger studios do go ahaead and pay the big bucks to buy ProTools, but it's so overly complicated and cumbersome to operate that the operators tell their customers they're going to do this/that/the_other on a recording with ProTools, then when the customer leaves the premises, the operator actually loads up the tune into good old cheap CoolEdit Pro instead, so he can get some productive work done in a reasonable amount of time, then lies and tells the customer he used ProTools so he can charge him more.
I built a several thousand dollar high-end DAW with a Motu 2408 Mk III for my buddy who owns a recording studio, and even though he has Nuendo, Sonar, and other packages, he mostly uses CEP because it is so much more user-friendly to work with.
Yeah, $500 for "a professional recording studio that used to cost tens to hundreds of thousands" is major cost reduction. Unfortunately, the above quote (I made it up) is basically, like nearly every software program's hype, full of omissions.
Like what you have to buy to get the program to work. Let's start with a computer, in the interest of brevity.
Any old computer? Nope. How about my brand-new multigahertz PC wonder? Probably not. You have to run it on a ProTools approved system. One reason why a whole bunch of audio is still done with Macs; once it's all said and done, Macs and PCs for audio (at this level) cost the same, maybe even less.
Like all the other stuff you have to buy. Including ProTools hardware; a bunch of extra software, and the rest of the stuff that makes a recording studio what it is. Singers are blowing through microphones that cost thousands of dollars and explode if you look at them funny (well, maybe not that easy; singing too close, or dropping them even once, maybe a hard bump, that will do it. Spend $5K).
Wages, wages, wages. Heat, rent, electricity. A cable inventory that's worth more than your car. You know, the usual stuff. When it comes right down to it, you could get the software for free* and it still wouldn't make much difference in the bill.
Now, many musicians are on the edge and do some great things with (only) many thousands of dollars invensted. Don't expect to see their efforts in a major label release though; if they get signed the record company is going to send them back to do it again, with the big buck guys. And yes, you can hear the difference.
As to the question why the product hasn't gone down in price, the answer is it has. I used to pay $10-16 for LP records. According to this inflation calculator, that translates as $33.73 to $53.96 (1975-2000, US). I won't go into about how the music industry has been trying to get us to pay $25 since the early 80's, suffice to say consumer resistance has tended to curb their periodic attempts to raise the retail price.
* Get ProTools Free direct from Digidesign here (Win98/Me & MacOS9): Digidesign It will run on less critical hardware, and is a functional but somewhat limited version of the paid programs. Don't expect your next CD to cost $0 to finish.
Read the System Requirements here:
Windows XP
For those of you who would rather not click the link here's an example (there's a lot of requirements, but whatever):
The only fully approved CPU's are Compaq EVO W2000, an IBM Intellistation M Pro model 6850 or Intellistation Z Pro model 6221, and a Turnkey solution from a company called Carillion. Don't be expecting to run Quake and MS Office on this box either, it will probably break the audio hardware functionality. You can run it with any G4/AGP/OSX Mac though (although that's not all you'll need, on either platform).