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Looking at Longhorn

ShinyPlasticBag writes "Paul Thurrott has an excellent preview of Longhorn milestone five over at his Supersite for Windows. It looks like this may be Microsoft's equivalent to OS X -- the next version of Windows will have a 3D accelerated desktop and other graphical goodies. In addition to this, it will include a journaling file system, so us mere mortals can enjoy what Linux Geeks have had for years."

18 of 714 comments (clear)

  1. NEWSFLASH, NTFS is a journaling filesystem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    git with the program dude.

    1. Re:NEWSFLASH, NTFS is a journaling filesystem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Whatever. XP has a multi-threaded TCP/IP stack, it has a journaling filesystem in 1995, had full plug & play years ago, including support for USB, Firewire, etc waaaay before Linux.

      Windows is still way behind what? Linux? You are a blind Linux zealot that doesn't know how to think or research for himself.

      Try actually using Linux for development, using gdb and ddd and you'll cringe at how often it doesn't work as well as Visual Studio. I mean, yes, gdb does work and ddd does work most of the time, but more than often I had to reboot my entire machine because of some bug. The IDE is nothing compared to Visual Studio.

      I love the ideals behind Linux and I completely support open source development, but I'm not blind to Linux's faults. I hate Microsoft, but I love NT and its descendants. Hate the company, love the technology.

  2. Mirror by NETHED · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is a mirror.

    I Didn't get a chance to fix the links to the images, so Here is the directory with a dump of them.

    (And where is the Coward option?)

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    --sig fault--
  3. Journaling FS by VValdo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Microsoft's equivalent to OS X...will include a journaling file system, so us mere mortals can enjoy what Linux Geeks have had for years."

    And OS X users have had for months...

    W

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    This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  4. Re:Journaling File System: for those who don't kno by n1ywb · · Score: 4, Informative

    No journaling file system guarantees that any unsaved data will be preserved in the event of a system crash. Data that's in RAM in the disk write cache is lost in the event of a crash. That has nothing to do with the file system.

    Journaling file systems are transaction based. If a transaction fails partway through (IE the system crashes) the state of the disk is the same as if the transaction had never started, and is thus always consistent.

    You would have to be doing something extra weird to risk corrupting an entire ext2 volume in the event of a crash. Also the article doesn't mention that ext3 IS ext2 with a journal added, it's not a totally different file system. In fact an ext3 file system that is cleanly unmounted can be mounted as an ext2 file system, FYI.

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    -73, de n1ywb
    www.n1ywb.com
  5. You are not correct by ink · · Score: 5, Informative

    NTFS was a journaling filesystem from the start; even before NT4 came out. It was a journaling filesystem before Reiserfs or EXT3 even had a single line of code written. You can set it up to fully journal the filesystem data as well (it only does metadata by default). It did change with NT 5, but the journaling capabilities still existed in prior versions. More documentation can be found here

    --
    The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
  6. Re:What I really resent about M$ by xchino · · Score: 4, Informative

    Winmodems are designed to use M$ Windows system calls to offload processing power from the hardware to the CPU. Same with Winprinters. This is why they have "Win" in the name. Why the hell should there be a law against this? I can still buy any REAL modem and it will work flawlessly with Linux. If your hardware doesn't work with Linux, get hardware that does. Start checking the HCL before you go to Best Buy.

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    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
  7. The submitter of the article was an idiot by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    The new big feature of the filesystem is not that it's journalling.

    They are integrating the filesystem with their SQL engine so that files are easily searchable with the multiple GB hard drives everyone will have by the time 2005 rolls around. The big feature is that it's a database filesystem called WinFS.

    I guess the submitters of the article don't even read the articles anymore! Gotta love the quip at the end of the summary--makes him look even more moronic. NTFS has been a journalling file system since its inception. Many years before ext3 reared its ugly head.

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    "Sufferin' succotash."
  8. Re:Please... by Have+Blue · · Score: 4, Informative

    "3D accelerated desktop" is too easy to misinterpret. What's really going is that a lot of graphics tasks (compositing, mostly) are offloaded to the GPU. The real advantage to having the entire screen as a GL context means that tricks that used to be very processor-intensive are now ready for everyday use. OS X's use of transparency was a bit much for a 400Mhz G3, but a modern graphics card barely notices the load. The Terminal could use transparent windows since day 1, but with a significant performance hit; with QE that hit is gone and some people leave their windows transparent all the time. The genie effect used to take up 100% of pretty much every Mac's CPU, with the GPU handling the grunt work of the bitmap distortion there's enough power left over that DVDs actually keep playing while they are being genied. The full-screen zoom tool (for the visually impaired) uses bilinear filtering, and again with virtually zero performance hit - I use it to watch postage-stamp streaming movies embedded in web pages at full screen.

    A 3D-accelerated desktop is just the logical next step after blitting acceleration from a 2D card.

  9. Re:Parental Controls by mystik · · Score: 4, Informative

    if you peek around /etc/security/time.conf, PAM (which redhat uses at least) will manage access control for you that way.

    Any application that uses PAM will automatically time-locked accordingly.

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    Why aren't you encrypting your e-mail?
  10. Re:Has anyone else noticed... by antiMStroll · · Score: 5, Informative
    2000 and XP already support drive mounts. Microsfot just hid it really well, no doubt to make it easier on the support lines.

    Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Disk Management

    Select the partition, right click on 'Change Drice Letter and Paths' , select 'Change' and you'll be presented with two option. One is to mount the drive as a traditional letter, the other as a directory.

  11. Re:Journaling File System: for those who don't kno by g4dget · · Score: 4, Informative
    Journaling file systems are transaction based. If a transaction fails partway through (IE the system crashes) the state of the disk is the same as if the transaction had never started, and is thus always consistent.

    That's just wrong on several levels.

    First of all, the file system is not consistent after a crash: journaling file systems need to replay the journal in order to make it consistent. This is no different in principle from non-journaling file systems (which, traditionally, also have incorporated various features to permit recovery), it just happens to be faster.

    Second, I/O APIs usually do not define a notion of "transaction" at the file system level, and even if they do, there aren't a whole lot of guarantees you can make that are particularly useful. In fact, journaling file systems and transaction-based file systems really are very different things. A journaling file system can be used to implement a transaction-based file system, but it can also be used just to implement fast recovery.

    Third, for performance reasons, very few journaling file systems journal file content; they only worry about meta-data. And NTFS falls back a step further by making particularly weak guarantees. For example, if I create files "a", "b", and "c" in that sequence, with three separate programs, after a crash, any combination of those files may be present, and their content may be arbitrarily messed up.

  12. Re:Journaling File System: for those who don't kno by hpa · · Score: 4, Informative

    So does ramfs. The difference between tmpfs and ramfs is that tmpfs is swappable, whereas ramfs is pinned in RAM. tmpfs is definititely the preferred choice for /tmp.

  13. This news is biased by ThunderRiver · · Score: 4, Informative

    NTFS is a journaling file system, and Longhorn has a more advanced journaling file system that Linux can't not match. The new file system will classify files for you, from word document to mp3 files. You only need to type in keywords like "Picture taken in Feburary by John" it will show up a list of picture taken in Feburary by the name John. It is too powerful that Linux is still way behind.

  14. Re:In other words... by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 5, Informative

    Huh? Where did you get this?

    As far as I know, Microsoft has NO plans on removing compatibility with older applications. I'm running Windows Server 2003, and I can still run Win16 apps as well as most DOS apps.

    The parent is nothing but a troll. Yes, DRM in the OS is not a good thing. No, it will not have the profound impact that you think it will have. No one will stop you from running Linux on your computer.

    DRM in the OS means very little. Application developers know that the adoption of a new OS is slow, and they will not do anything that would reduce their userbase.

  15. Re:linux has no features I see in the screenshots by rikkus-x · · Score: 5, Informative
    a convenient login widget

    kdm. Easy to configure, many useful options. You can even configure it to log you in automatically. Switch on your machine, go make coffee, come back, you're logged in and ready to start work, your previous session restored.

    easy to use admin tools for login access

    kuser can do this for you. Linux distributors often provide their own tools for this, for example SuSE, whose admin tools are handily integrated into the KDE Control Centre.

    more convenient and innovative UI metaphors

    Play around with kicker, the KDE panel. It does most of the stuff that Longhorn thing does, plus lots more stuff which they haven't done.

    I expect Gnome does some or all of these things too; I picked KDE because it's what I know.

    Rik

  16. Not True! by solman · · Score: 4, Informative
    I hate being forced to defend Microsoft, but this often repeated claim is a load of crap.

    Look here for one of several knowledgeable accounts of the history behind Microsoft's TCP/IP stack that are floating around the web.

    Please be more careful before you declare that something has been proven.

  17. Re:In other words... by Dylan+Zimmerman · · Score: 4, Informative

    I got it from here:

    http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#longho rn

    "Current Windows based software will not be compatible with the Longhorn filesystem".