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Interview with Student Sued by RIAA
TinoMNYY24 writes "Jesse Jordan, owner of chewplastic.com, was on CNN this morning discussing the RIAA settlement. You can read a poorly spelled transcript of the interview. Jesse is one of the two students at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute that were sued by the RIAA."
First he gets sued by the RIAA, then his personal web site gets Slashdotted.
One of the big problems with our legal system is that it is easy to bully someone with a frivolous lawsuit when they can't afford the time or money to defend themselves. As the defendant pointed out, a lawsuit against AltaVista would have just as much justification behind it (little to none) but they didn't go after them because AltaVista can afford to defend themselves.
lysergically yours
So... I hear that those glass houses are a bitch to cool in the summertime. :-)
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Daniel Peng, one of the defendants at Princeton, may think that the lawsuit was "settled amicably", but I do not think that this is an "amicable" settlement. In fact, I am outraged. They will pay for what they've done.
Hey RIAA, if you see a nerd dressed in all black wearing a trenchcoat, ala "the Matrix", coming into your building...DUCK!
CNN: So, you can steal music with your tool, then?
Student: Well, sorta. You can find any kind of document on the network with it.
CNN: Like music.
Student: Music, along with any other type of file.
CNN: Illegal music.
Student: Well, I suppose.
CNN: So you're stealing music, then?
Student: No.
CNN: But you've created a tool for stealin music.
Student: I've created a tool that is a search engine, like AltaVista or Google.
CNN: There you have it, folks, one of the evil communists trying to get something for nothing.
All sweeping generalizations suck.
So what did the government... I mean the RIAA [claim you did]
Sounds like something a slashbot^H^H^H^dotter would say about them. I agree with the goatse man post a few comments up.
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
Yeah,
:P
I can't see this as coming from Rush. There was nothing about Monica or Democrats...
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
ANCHOR: Hey, Jesse, why do you think the government came after you?
JESSE JORDAN, SETTLED LAWSUIT WITH RECORDING INDUSTRY: Well, actually it was the recording industry association.
Kind of hard to tell these days, isn't it?
Cheers,
-- RLJ
The government came after you...
Twice (although corrected the second time). Glad Jessie had the mind to correct the interviewer - it's not easy to think on national television - watching the news "professionals" should be evidence enough, think about when you're just a college student.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Smooth move, RIAA; this really endears your customers to you.. Talk about cutting your own throat.
Trolling is a art,
The scariest and best part is when the INTERVIEWER actually confused the RIAA with the Government. That sure gives the RIAA some big clankin' balls.
Next... RIAA orders bombing of Canada, because its acutally legal to download music here!
Ratboy666.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
No wonder you posted this as anonymous. You're ignorant. If you followed this story the last 5 times it was posted on slashdot, you would have realized that these students only created search engines, nothing more. The people who are "depriving" millionaires of money are the people who willingly use search engines to steal things. If a whorehouse uses the phone book to advertise, is the phone book to blame when people visit the whorehouse? I don't think so. You also need to see through the RIAA propaganda. They say that music sales are down by some percent (I want to say 25% but the numbers aren't in front of me). The truth is, music releases are down more than that. They release less music, then blame computer users when sales go down. Anyway, you're ignorant of the laws and the actual technology used in this case. Also, your post makes no sense. No one is complaining about copyright infringement except the RIAA, even though they have stolen music.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
How does the RIAA decide which students to sue? I mean, do they do careful research on who's most likely to settle, rather than contest it, or counter-sue for harrassment? Of all the piracy that goes on college campuses, how do they pick which people?
Oh well. Pity that the record industry has had to resort to extorting $12,000 out of people who can't defend themselves who probably aren't doing anything illegal.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
They clearly stated why they agreed to pay instead of fight - it would cost a lot more time and money than either the father or son could spare.
I disagree with their decision on principle, but I don't have the kind of money it would take to defend against the RIAA either. It's extortion, really, and while I wish they would defend themselves, it's hard to say what I'd do in their position.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
This seems right up their alley...this kid was running a general purpose search engine. It indexes everything it finds. It returns results. He made no money off of it. He was intimidated into settling, pure and simple.
Can I run a search engine now? Exactly HOW are google and alta vista immune from similar suits? Simple -- they can pay lawyers who could kick the crap out of the RIAA.
It's a travesty of justice. I wish one of the multi-letter organizations would help this guy.
RPI's other search engine, run by a school-funded computer club, was taken by the school's request.
It simply ran a Windows Share crawler which indexed files people were already sharing over the standard Microsoft networking tools. When you searched, it would provide a link to the file in question with a url pointing to the windows name of the computer and directory the file was last indexed in.
It is very very similar to google and web services. They both index public information, and rely on the technology of the client and server in question to procede further with the connection and transfers.
The reason I think these students were targetted was because they also were sharing, or had on their computers music that (allegedly, this is what I hear) didn't belong to them. So while the lawsuit about the search engine itself is sketchy at best (imo, ianal, etc), if they didn't settle a music piracy suit could probably easily be brought up against them.
I'd like to see the legal system set up so that neither party can spend more than the other, with some minimum allowance. For instance, if the RIAA wants to sue a student, and the student doesn't want to spend more than $100, the RIAA can't spend more than that, plus some basic allowance, say $1000. If the RIAA wants to spend more, they have to get the student's permission to loan him the money, and if they lose, they don't get the money back.
Apply it to governments too, so a state can't send in the well paid DA and his staff to prosecute some illiterate scum bag for a capital offense, while the public defender is only budgeted for one hour of time.
And yes, I do know about snowballs and hell.
Infuriate left and right
that's a mighty convienent mistake considering the media attention this has gotten.
I'd have to agree with the father, this was just a big PR trick for the RIAA and its a shame they aren't suing someone with the $$$$ to fight back.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Consider spending months and months, and 100s of thousands of dollars to defend yourself.
Yes you could countersue, and you might get your court costs covered. But where do you get the money you need to fight with (not even considering you might never get it back, even if you win)?
The US justice system is a tool for people/companies with money. If you can't afford to fight a suit brought against you, then you have to settle (which despite not admitting wrongdoing, always makes you look guilty.)
.sigs are for post^Hers.
There once was a man from RPI,
who the RIAA decided to try,
he was forced to settle,
but we'll continue to mettle,
and share musical art till we die.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
I believe Jesse Jordan's point to be the same as mine and many others hosting p2p-type networks, searches, etc. MP3 trading has not hurt sales of anything but music singles - do that math (since the RIAA obviously cant) and you'll see they only handle 4 billion a year in total cash flow, so unless they intend to show entirely different numbers reflecting a 100% loss in revenue I suggest they get a new story. Jesse Jordan is awfully brave though to admit he intends to bring his search back up in the next couple days. Not the smartest thing to say but at least he was honest about it. People have forgotten what 'fair use' means and the BONO term of copyright length is insane - the 14-year with one max 14-year extension for ALL works makes sense and is what our founders wanted. As for fair use, as long as we are not making a profit I don't see the problem, heck - music sales are holding strong when most other business markets are struggling so give me a break. This is the old VHS fight all over but this time we don't have big business on our side. They are more than willing to make mp3 players for us to use but if we go to jail or have to fight for our right to use them, too bad. So, I say to you RIAA/MPAA - Are you afraid to attack the big boys again for fear they will shut you down again? Come on, lets have you attack Sony or RCA or any mp3 player mfr and see how long it takes you to get smacked down. I'll just keep hosting my p2p hub thanks.
Really, a more applicable analogy would be "if people use Google to find child porn, is it Google's fault?"
In 2000, the RIAA claimed that sales dropped 4.1%. Meanwhile, they cut their album inventory by about 25%. They are making more money per release in the past three years than in the history of CDs.
How, exactly, have the RIAA stolen music? If they have, then that's quite interesting, but if you're just talking about paying the artists next-to-nothing, then that's not stealing. The artists signed the contracts. If they didn't hire all sorts of lawyers to go over them and make sure that there weren't loopholes, then that's their problem.
I actually met a contract lawyer once. He said that out of all of the recording industry contracts that he had reviewed, not one had been payed correctly. The artists were almost always owed significantly more than they had been payed.
REPORTER: Hey, Jesse, why do you think the government came after you?
JESSE: Well, actually it was the recording industry association.
REPORTER: Yeah, that's what I said. The government.
"All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground... and miss." - Douglas Adams
RIAA doesn't care who pays his fine. They get the money and publicity either way. If you wanna "fuck" them, give $12,000 to the EFF or ACLU or something like that.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
This disclaimer found on the Altavista MP3 Search page:
Disclaimer
Please be aware that the multimedia files referenced, made accessible or made available to you on these pages or by means of the AltaVista multimedia search engine are protected by the copyright and trademark laws of the United States and other countries. Therefore, you may need to obtain authorization of the owner of such materials before using them. Some of the multimedia content accessible through our search engine may be offensive to you. AltaVista accepts no responsibility or liability for such content, or your use of such content.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
The kid set up a paypal link on his site (chewplastic.com) so help him pay the rediculous extortion by the RIAA. I threw the kid $20 to help.
These people look deep into my soul and assign me a number based on the order I joined.
I don't think "The Hulk" will be worth the $12 it will cost me to go see it. So my options are to pay it anyway and see it, save my money and not see it, or sneak into the theatre.
What you are doing is analogous to sneaking into the theatre. The "moral" thing to do would be to just not go to the movie. MP3 theives insist on having their cake and eating it too. Then, they bitch about how bad the song was (while keeping it on their 5,000-song playlist anyway).
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
The courts just ruled in favor of Morpheus and Grokster, which are basically just search engines of another kind (compared to, say, Google).
... violating Microsoft's copyright and IP rights? AOL Instant Messenger and Yahoo! Messenger both allow users to share files (even entire directories). How is this different?
Now, if it's true that all these guys did was provide a search facility, why doesn't that ruling apply?
If all they did was provide a means to search for information they do not control or distribute themselves doesn't that mean ALL search engines could be sued? I mean, dang, I can go to MSN right now and find any number of sites willing to give me cracks and CD keys for Microsoft products (among many, many others). Does this mean the BSA should go after the Microsoft Network for
I really don't get it. If it's as simple as that, why didn't any number of search providers and special interest groups (Google, MSN, Lycos, AOL, Yahoo!, EFF) step forward and say, "You know what, we don't think so. You will back off. You will do it now."
What am I missing? They had to do something other than just provide a neutral search facility, right?
Under the Morpheus/Grokster ruling they could claim they designed the engine just for legit uses (or just because they felt like doing it as an intellectual exercise) and cannot be responsible if individuals not under the creators' direct control use the tool for uses other than those for which it was intended.
This goes back to the hammer analogy, I suppose: If I go to ACE and buy a hammer to bludgeon someone to death with, can the victim's family sue ACE and/or the manufacturer? That would be insane since the primary use of a hammer is not the braining of people who piss me off. Justification could be made for anything from automobiles to peanuts (ie, secretly feeding them to someone who is deathly allergic to them).
If all they truly did was create a search engine, it seems to me the RIAA simply used its gigantic financial power (in the form of threats of endless, costly litigation) to extort money from a tiny foe because going after a much larger, more dangerous but identical (in principle) foe (such as Google, MSN or Lycos) wouldn't be so easy, and because certain foes (Morhpeus, Grokster) had already been declared off-limits.
That is, I believe, the very defintion of "bully."
Right before the site got /.'d he added a paypal donation thing to the top. For anyone that can't see the page anymore, the paypal address is jordaj@rpi.edu. The last time I saw the page there were 1200+ users online. If we all donate $10 that covers what he owes and he can use anything leftover to fight back against the RIAA. We all need to take some action against the RIAA before this gets even worse. Where this guy has already been in court with the RIAA and his lawyers are familiar with them, we could get him to take some kind of action against them with all of us supporting. I dunno, I'm not familiar with the legal process or how our laws work, but I know taking $12,000 from a poor college student for downloading a few mp3s is not justified.
He currently has a link on his website on which people can click to donate money via Paypal.*
I know that some Slashdot readers really can't afford to donate, but many can. With Slashdot claiming over 200,000 unique visitors per day, it would only take a small percentage of people to completely defray the costs of his settlement.
If the RIAA sues a college student and drains his college savings, then they have won. If the Internet community chips in to cover the costs of the settlement, the RIAA has lost. The RIAA probably spent far more than $12,000 bringing the suit, incurred negative publicity, and will not have substantially harmed the victim of their lawsuit if Internet users pay the settlement. Not only that, the RIAA will see that there is a community poised to support its members and next time, maybe the funds will pay for legal defense rather than a settlement.
* Please, no replies with your thoughts on PayPal, donation accounting, etc. This is someone who has been screwed by the RIAA and the legal system and if you don't want to donate, then don't. But please do not try to discourage others from donating.
To the mods: I have Karma to throw away, so that's what I'm doing. This is a totally worthless rant and only marginally connected to the topic of this story.
... that really was just luck.
That said, I am so sick of hearing about litigation. It seems the Great American Dream is no longer to succeed in life through hard work, innovation and entrepreneurial prowess but to be on the constant lookout for someone to sue for wholly unrealistic sums.
A few years ago I was at work and suddenly found myself in so much pain I actually went to my knees. It was as if someone was exploring my guts with a red-hot fist and anything but a gentle touch. That lasted a few minutes during which I was fairly certain I was going to die and pretty certain it would have to be an improvement.
I was a healthy guy in my early 20s and had had no previous symptoms. The doctor at my HMO didn't see me straight away. I was seen by a nurse practitioner. She did a lot of tests, all of which came back negative right away or would take a day or more to show results. The abdominal X-Ray was mostly inconclusive, but I didn't appear to be bleeding internally. The nurse mentioned an MRI in passing and I immediately had the urge to bolt from the office -- I'm somewhat claustrophobic and pretty sure I'd go batty in that little tube. She smiled, said that was a common reaction and she didn't think it would be immediately necessary. She called in a nurse, they chatted; a bit later the nurse came back and said the only OpenMRI lab in town was booked solid for days.
More tests. She went over my symptoms with me again, poked around on my stomach until I wanted to hurt her in various creative ways but in reality just laid there and tried not to cry while offering one emphatic "YES!" after another to, "Does this hurt?"
She decided after that that I had pancreatitis, which is excruciatingly painful but never lasts more than 48 hours or so. She gave me a prescription for antibiotics and pain meds and I called my mom to come get me. The next day was hell. 48 hours! I figured I'd make it, if only just. But then 48 hours passed. And I went back. More tests, more head-scratching. I learned nothing new and was sent home. 72 hours. I felt a bit better, I supposed, or maybe I was just getting used to it. By the fourth day I was fine. It was later in the week that I found out what I'd really had: a small perforation in my stomach. I could have died at any point along the way. Surgery is usually indicated and the condition is considered immediately life-threatening. I was one of the rare few who have the things heal up on their own.
Everyone said I should sue. Everyone said I should be seriously, litigiously pissed. Especially since the actual doctor didn't see me until AFTER the whole thing was basically over (on the third day, when I was showing improvement, at which she adopted a "Wait and see, but don't hesitate to get to the ER if it gets worse" attitude.).
Except that I did a little research and I had perfectly described the symptoms of pancreatitis, apparently for good reason. It seems that acid from my stomach was leaking onto my pancreas (which is why it hurt a LOT more to lay down than to stand or sit, I guess). It was a perfect mimic. I was even sore in all the right places. A friend of mine has an uncle who is a trial lawyer and he was ready to jump all over it. "But I begged off the MRI," I told him. "But she didn't stress it hard enough," he replied. "The burden was hers, you have no medical training, you only knew you didn't want to get shoved in a dark hole. She was more than willing to comply because MRI's aren't cheap." To this day I don't actually know if an MRI would have helped. I suppose it would have shown the perforation the X-Ray missed. I suppose, in the end, it would have also caused me to undergo a surgery that, luckily, in the end I didn't need anyway. But
It went back and forth. In the end, I didn't sue. I might even h