Gates on Digital Restrictions Technologies

doormat writes "According to this article, Gates says you can choose not to use the new secure PC technology that they're developing. Is that going to be a choice like being a vegetarian, or like choosing not to eat at all?" There's also a short piece about DRM and Linux, which is a follow-up to Linus on DRM.

Comments

Sure...we can use pencils

[Sabalon]

How long before MS decides that they will only provide windows for this thing and anything else doesn't offer the needed security? So, you can either use these or you can use something that doesn't run Windows.

Fine for a lot of people here, but what will happen is businesses will still want windows and office, so they'll buy into this, and hardware makers will look at the other stuff as a non-profitable niche market.

Re:Sure...we can use pencils

[anagama]

I recently opened my own business (IAAL). I use Linux on the Desktop. I figure that in MS-Office alone, I saved somewhere between $1200 and $1600 (4 copies). My business partner has been swapping documents with a different office - all in Word format. OOo is seamless in that respect. OOo speaks to MySQL nicely - select a form letter template, select records, hit print - it's a snap. There are some hard things - I'm frustrated with intermittent success getting a USB Clie to talk to Evolution - but the serial cable costs $20 so I've still saved a huge amount of money if I decide to give up on USB.

Windows isn't great - it's just popular (think Brittany Spears). When you are that popular, you don't have to care. Listen to our friend Bill, after saying that some Office documents might not work with other programs: In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability. So if enough people buy into this crap, and I have to share files with them, I'll have to cave in, buy into MS ... might as well get some Boyz to Men as well.

Classic multi-vendor finger pointing...

[TopShelf]

Software vendors have pulled the "hey, it wasn't me," line since time immemorial. This does represent a mechanism by which content providers will simply only release new material that require DRT to access. I remember a similar incidence when a new version of Pocket PC came out with DRM that basically rendered my Jornada blind to the world of eBooks.

Normally I'm not as hard on MS as most of the /. crowd, but gotta give a "boo... hiss..." on this one.

Re:If you opt out

[flogger]

Opting out? How can I opt out? Will there be a big warnng box upon install that says, "Check this box if you wish to opt out of using secutiry features." Or will it be turned on by default and installed already when Joe User buys a new PC? Will it be easy to turn off?
Heck. How many Joe Users know right now if their Unique Chip Identifier is turned on in bios? (ala Pentium III UID technology).
I tend to not like this optional feature. It will take one hour for someone to release a worm that turns it on without knowledge, turns it off without knowledge, or reports all sort of fun info without Joe User's knowledge.

Re:The technology

[tambo]

>And then when this MS bumble fails like so many
>other MS things have, everyone will see it for
>what it is. Is passport used the way MS said it
>would be? No.

That doesn't always happen. Microsoft is inserting more and more "creeping featuritis" into Windows. Do you really want to trust MS's assertions that they won't use it? Remember Amazon's privacy policy changes? (Today: Give us your personal information; we PROMISE not to sell it to spammers. Tomorrow: We changed our minds, and we're sure you'll love these eight trillion emails from bukkake.com.)

Let's say we all roll over and accept DRM as a harmless, unusued feature. Who's to say that buried in some EULA for Windows 2006 XP won't be a clause that using Windows Update authorizes MS to turn on DRM? With the flip of a switch (well, the toggle of a BOOL), MS becomes Hollywood's bestest pal.

I don't want to let MS embed a bomb in my system. Thanks, no.

>TIP: The world is revolving around the US less
>and less every day.

TIP: Network effects are powerful forces. Sure, we can switch, if we don't ever want to access our old Word documents or run 90% of the software that's commercially available.

David Stein, Esq.

Let's not forget about the DMCA folks!

[gosand]

OK, so Gates says that they won't force people to use it. Uh-huh. As with the EULA, he reserves the right to change his mind at a later date of his choosing.

So in 5 years, all AMD and Intel chips will have DRM enabled, and Windows will have it on by default. There is absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening. Now in this scenario, if you find a way to disable the DRM, either in the chip or in the software, you can be prosecuted under the DMCA. Or maybe detained without a trial under the Patriot Act as a threat to national security. (if they succeed in getting it made permanent)

Maybe I am creating a "worst case" scenario, but it is certainly plausible. Who would have thought 5 years ago that the US would be able to hold a few hundred people captive without a trial. Or that a college student would be sued for creating a search engine. Or a programmer would be arrested and held in jail for speaking at a security conference. Or a printer cartridge manufacturer would be sued because they are making generic cartridges. Or any of the other BS that has come out of the DMCA. Some people said "Oh, if the DMCA get abused, it will be repealed because the people won't stand for it." Here is a hint: it has been abused repeatedly, and it is nowhere near being repealed. Things are getting worse.

MS Rackettering similar to Auto Co. racketering

[SailorBob]

Get a grip, people. If you wanna use windows, keep using windows2000 or xp

I would love to sell computers with 2000 on them and not XP or whatever the next boatware is gonig to be - but I can't since M$ no longer sells licenses to old OS's. Sure, individuals can buy old licenses 2nd hand and install themselves, but that's an extremely small percentage of people. 95% of people buy their machine with a pre-installed OS, and that is going to be the latest M$ bloatware because you can't run a PC business scavanging old licenses here and there. You have to have a reliable supply of licenses.

As a seller I'm forced to put whatever the latest Winbloze is on the machines I sell. Actually, forcing people to buy something they don't want or need is illegal. It's called racketeering and it's what the auto companies got smacked down on for in the 60's/70's. They were required to publish the specs for any car they no longer sell/service. M$ should be forced to publish the source for old OS's it no longer supports. M$ also shouldn't be allowed to prevent the use of such old OS's. To do so and force people to buy a newer version is racketeering.

Re:If you opt out

[senahj]

Crazy phil man saith :
> stock up on fast systems now, while you can.
> Get all your computer purchasing out of the way this year,
> and skip the whole DRM thing entirely.

Here's where I think the dividing line is on Wintel.
I'd be grateful for corrections.

Disk drives - CPRM :
- No CPRM-mandatory products in wide distribution.

BIOS - TCPA :
- no data. Anyone know which ones have TCPA support
already built in?

Processor - La Grande :
- current P4 dice don't have La Grande, CPU IDs can be disabled.
- Prescott-design processors due "in the third quarter
of 2003" will have La Grande

Chipset -
The hot intel "Canterwood" chipset seems to work well
with non-La Grande processors. Will its successor?

OS - Palladium, EULAs, etc. :
- Windows 9x is not an operating system.
No actual security of any kind is really possible.
- Windows 2000 is a real OS, albeit kinda klunky.
but it doesn't have the hooks to make DRM mandatory.
Up to SP2 the EULAs were acceptable - then the EULA for SP3
had that scary clause about agreeing that MS could download and
install updates without your knowledge or further consent,
(now it looks like that was just CYA for the "auto update"
feature, which can be turned off). But I think that you can
run Windows 2000 at SP 2 or 3 and be in the clear, especially
if you don't rush into any further service packs or updates
without careful scrutiny. Withdrawn from market, but still
available e.g. on ebay.
- Windows XP is the same OS as Windows 2000, with a whole
lot of minor annoyances fixed. Big improvement in backward
compatibility with Windows 9x: it's a far better gaming platform.
But it was designed to be the carrot that lured people onto
Passport and MyWallet, and to support Windows Media DRM.
May already be some Palladium or precursor under the hood.
Currently being shipped on all new OEM boxen.
- Longhorn, or whatever the next generation is codenamed:
it will be possible for someone to configure it to make Palladium
mandatory. Will the owner of the HW be allowed to configure it?
- You don't own any data; you pay
a monthly fee for access to certain data, some of which you
may have created. If you quit paying, you lose acceess, and
the data might go away.

Windows Media Player
Trojan Horse. Introduces DRM, and each update locks it down tighter,
gives the user less control. EULAs and built-in DRM already
onerous and unacceptable in 7.1. People who download and install
the current WMP 9 are drinking the kool-aid.

Real Player, Quicktime, etc.
I have no knowledge. Anyone?

So, I conclude that if I wish to continue with Wintel
and still have control of my data, I *must* buy a new box
with a fast P4 on a Canterwood chipset, and I must do
it this summer while I still can.