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First Matrix Reloaded Review
EpsCylonB writes "The IMDB is reporting that the London Daily mirror has the first review of the Matrix Reloaded. Sounds like the Wachowski borthers have gone for an all out action movie which is a shame if true. What I liked most about the original was the way it blended stunning action with a subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality." I'll hold judgement until the closing credits myself.
Its supposed to make money, not innovate all over again.
Subtle philosophy? More like blatantly obvious and hackneyed oversimplification of philosophy.
If by philosophy you mean the sort of thoughts you have when you get stoned and are fascinated by the Winamp visualization plugins, then I'll agree. But if by philosophy you mean anything vaguely legitimate on an academic level (I'm talking about old dead Greek and European guys here), then you're sorely mistaken.
The "message" of the Matrix, if it can be called that, is sort of like Plato's Allegory of the cave, minus any actual intellectualism and plus a lot of guns. Don't get me wrong, it's a helluva lot of fun to watch, but you'd be hard pressed to sell it (or the vaunted "Fight Club") as a "philosophical" movie. The Matrix is philosophy in the same sense that pop music is music.
Or maybe that's just my arrogant elitist opinion. Mod down if you really want to, I suppose.
The first Matrix did have some ideas that were distinctly philosophical in nature - to (poorly) summarise "how do I know what is real, and what does 'real' mean anyway"? However, the questions have been asked, and answered, pretty much the same way in a great deal of other fiction. It's philosophical, sure, but it's well-trodden ground.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
They give far too much of it away, not the plot necessarily, but the action sequences and 'new characters'. I don't see they why they are pimping it so badly. People are going to want to see it anyway. The adverts should have been complete teasers. I'm tired of walking into a movie only to discover I know whats coming because of what I've seen on the adverts.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
the phillosophical theme of the matrix was as subtle as a punch in the face.
And lets face it, if you liked the phillosophical theme you would have preferred Dark City, the matrix predecessor that had a very similar plot (without the action and the kung foo).
You may as well admit it -- you liked the action.
Subtle? It was about as subtle as a foot long brown shit sitting in the middle of a white tablecloth. Philosophical content was borderline nil. The movie was kung fu, action, kung fu, babes and kung fu.
Also it's "i" before "e" except after "c".
There's nothing wrong with Pop philosophy, but people need read the original works. Hopefully, the movie inspired some people to go read the original text and really get a mind altering experience.
Why use humans at all? If all you need is a powersource, stick in sheep? Less troublesome by half
a) There're no sheep left after the war between humans and machines, presumably;
and 2) Your brain produces enough electricity to power a microwave. I'm not sure how other mammals compare in this regard, but I doubt they fare much better.
The caloric efficiency of using bodies as massive networked energy sources is a concept I don't buy. Cripes. Burning wood has to be more efficient.
Yeah, the efficiency thing bugged me too. You can't just keep feeding dead people to new people without losing at least the body heat of the living in the process. Perhaps there's another unexplained food source, maybe algae or something. As for trees, the sky has been 'burnt', so no solar energy gets through (which would've been the optimal solution anyway, at least until the machines develop some other source of energy based of fusion or something).
Moreover, who cares what people in the matrix think? If they revolt, so what?
Actually, I think the preceding two points you made answer this one nicely, if we consider the Matrix a stop-gap measure used by the machines to perpetuate themselves until such a time as they no longer need humans. They may even be using human scientists within the Matrix to provide solutions to problems which they, as machines, haven't the creative insight to solve for themselves. Approached from this point of view, the eventual extermination of the human race by the machines becomes an inevitablility if the humans to not wake up and overthrow them.
Lastly, this is a nitpick I know, but bullets travel at well over the speed of sound. I don't care how fast you pull the trigger, with the action of a semi-automatic, the bullets will likely be 100 feet apart between shots.
That's true if you or I are firing the gun. If an Agent inside the Matrix is firing the gun, however, the results may be somewhat different.
Of course, you still have to jump through a lot of suspension-of-disbelief hoops to buy the premise of the movie, so if you don't appreciate crazy scifi kung-fu stoner philosophy flicks with Carrie-Anne Moss in skin-tight leather outfits, you're more than welcome to spend your movie dollar seeing The Lizzie McGuire Movie
"If you're thinking what I'm thinking, you're right." -
Am I the only one who enjoyed the The Thirteenth Floor more than The Matrix? They used the same humans-living-in-a-computer concept, but while Matrix turned into a pure action movie, Thirteenth Floor continued to have a plot.
If you thought that theme was subtle, you don't get out much.
I've seen numerous movies with more subtle themes. The Matrix is about kicking ass and wearing leather.
The message must be appropriate to the medium.
Movies affect the senses in order to affect the mind. Books turn that around.
Therefore, for a movie to be a "philosophical" movie, it is more important that it show the results of its motivation in a sensual manner (sensuous is acceptable as well, depending on your motivation ;-) and allow the audience to create its own framework for analysis than to spell it out for them.
The point of the questioning in The Matrix was to provide an easily-graspable starting point for anyone to start thinking about what he had seen and felt from the movie. The action sequences were there --- at least in part --- for us to entertain ourselves with the construct so created.
Fiction lies within the realm of "what if." It is the responsibility of the fiction writer to produce an entertaining read for his audience (even if that audience is just himself). We ask a bit more of science fiction, in that the what if must also consider philosophical ramifications, but we often balk if said philosophy bits are presented in the raw and not worked into the story.
The point is that exposition and essay such as Descart and Herodotus wrote is completely inappropriate to a science fiction movie, and more suited to the medium in which they wrote. Otherwise they would have been writing plays or poems and songs such as their artistic bretheren were doing.
The dialogues of Plato also are ill-suited to the movie medium. The closest good (by which I mean literary or otherwise of artistic merit) movie to the dialogues would be Waking Life --- and even that is half-baked if considered as a philosophical essay.
The mistake is not in the creation, it is in the analysis of the critic: we do not analyse poems as we do philosophical journal articles, so why insist that movies serve as such?
Another thing that bugs me about the above post: the author is only considering what is actually said in the movie. In a visual and auditory medium, that is insipid: would Apocalypse Now play so well as a radio show?
Also, it is considered of higher intellectual integrity to kindly consider a piece's arguments and fill them out as you would if you were the person proposing them in opposition to your own arguments. Knocking a work because it does not address what you are arguing is of very low class. Perhaps you should read Aquinas, or talk to any Ancient Philosophy 101 teacher.
The point of philosophy is not to bash another's views, but to discover Truth and the constructs towards Truth. That's why we call it philosophy.
All the same, I thank you for your post because it was one of the first in its vein cogent enough to respond to.
PS: Yes, I feel the same way towards people who consider The Matrix to be the be-all-end-all of solipsistic philosophy. Then again, it's not the worst introduction to it, and I've been shocked by how few people are familiar with solipsistic arguments.
But if you're looking for something a little more than crash, bang, wallop then this second instalment will leave you cold. Reloaded is crammed full of the cod philosophy that fans of the original loved but which left me distinctly unimpressed.
Huh??? So if you're a fan of the philosophy it will leave you cold, but yet it is crammed full of the philosophy that fans of the original loved??
If you're looking for a deep, meaningful cinematic experience then The Matrix Reloaded is not for you. But if it's a non-stop rollercoaster ride you're after, then this movie is light years ahead of anything that's gone before.
Ok great, so it's going to be a good action flick, but why does he assume that even though it is 'crammed full' of the philosophy content, that you won't like it? Just because he wasn't a fan of that part of the film?
methinks this review was written rather hastily, no?
THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
YOU DIOTS!
They aren't LITERALY using the electricity from the people!
It meant the robots where using the peoples spirit, their soul, their dreams, their creativity, not their actual electricity! Sheesh!
The same way corporations use labor power. They aren't paying you to type the keyboard they are paying you for your brain process mixed with your education. A robot can punch keys on a keyboard, a robot can't program!
Man maybe slashdot people are good at math but you guys would fail a literature course with flying colors. oi.
Hang on though, such experts would either ignore it as not their problem, or investigate it further as such.
I suspect you're more the "Philosophy 101" type who says "Trinity - I've heard that word; Zion - I've heard that word, too" without any actual understanding.
The Matrix is a strange, and inconsistent film (not least - why, in a simulated world, do simulated telephones have such significance?!) but to dismiss the entire thing in a single viewing is a sign either of an incredible life experience, or of an incredible ignorance.
It's only a film, that is true, but there is more to it than Independance Day, which, to be fair, a Media Studies student could hopefully be able to get /something/ out of after a 3rd viewing.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
ROTFLMAO.
Oh yes, The Matrix, a movie, was so very, very subtle. And philosophic. It practically put Plato to shame. Oh, we are so sophisticated here. Hmmm. Could we build on this deep, deep insight and discuss how Biodome compares with Kierkegaard? "No! I will not be limited by your limited metaphysical world!"
I'm sorry, I enjoy The Matrix as much as the next geek, but please. Philisophical content??? The basic idea of the mind/reality seperation has been around longer than Descartes' subjectivist turn in his Meditations. Let's not put too much value in these films. They throw a mild technology element into an idea thats existed for a long time. I think the production and mythological element should be much more valued. Maybe I've just spent too much of my life buried in books (yes the ones with paper pages and ink type) but I didn't find the "world isn't real" aspect of the film(s) to be that shocking or original. It was mildly interesting at best. But the way it was presented in combination with the way that their (semi)religion was presented in the context played out in a very interesting manner.
The X-Men saga is about as interesting philisophically with the alagory (that whole civil rights thing). Then again, I'm excited about these flicks as well.
Both, I think fall in the good movies as opposed to good films category (call me snobby! please!). Apocalypse Now was a great film. Fritz Lang's catalogue were great films. The Matrix and The Matrix:Reloaded, must see? YES! Great film? eeehhhhh.... Derivative, but well presented? Probably. Only time will tell what people really think of these.
I appreciate your comments, especially:
."
"The point of the questioning in The Matrix was to provide an easily-graspable starting point for anyone to start thinking about what he had seen and felt from the movie. The action sequences were there --- at least in part --- for us to entertain ourselves with the construct so created."
It's getting a little tiresome reading people knocking the Matrix for its lack of philosophy, despite its pretensions. Like this is somehow a difficult target, and you're a genius for pointing this out to the less well read among us. These budding directors and critics would only be satisfied with a film version of The Republic; "Oh my god, they cut out so much dialogue", "I can't believe they didn't release it in the original Greek, with subtitles. .
Maybe the first couple people who introduced this line of thought, like FOUR YEARS AGO should be commended for their clairity of vision, but the rest of you are just jumping on the bandwagon to look superior in decrying a massively popular movie. It's okay, I've been in your shoes before. Nothing is ever good enough, intelligent enough, well crafted enough, especially if lots of people actually enjoyed it. Troglodytes, all of 'em!
How many people in the viewing audience do you think have read any great work of western philosophy, let alone understood it? The underpinings to the Matrix are better thought out then any action movie of the last couple decades (if I'm wrong here, I'm eager to be proven wrong. Name some movies [in any genre] that introduce more philosophical discussion than the Matrix has). I did notice that someone out there mentioned Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead, that's one of my favorite films. Go rent it. No, I don't think it's available on DVD. Nevermind.
Who was it that said "if you want to send a message, use a telegram." It's a film. A visual medium. It introduced some philosophical ideas to an audience that has never considered them before. They should be commended for releasing something more than your standard action/shooting movie. Let it be, and enjoy it for what it is.
I realize no one will read this (posting anonynously to a post buried deep in the article, but it's been cathartic. When the next film has made its first 200 million, I'll be eager to hear your original thoughts on Keanu Reaves' acting ability. Peace out.
Was exactly what makes me NOT leary of the second one. So many people I know thought it was nothing more than an action flick....never the wiser in regards to the REAL message.
So I for one won;t be worried until I see it. I don't trust critics enough to even come close to worrying about a review like this.
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
No. This is bull shit, but I guess I'll take the bait. If you saw the Matrix, you might remember Laurence Fishburne? You know, the well spoken, accomplished actor that had the other major role, and in fact, mentored neo down the path of enlightenment? Nah, you'll just sit there and have a knee-jerk reflex attitude about your race. White america wants people regardless of their "culture" to be able to show up for school or work prepared to read and write standard english and math skills. They want self-reliant people who do their job, get paid for their SKILLS, and don't threaten to call the NAACP when they are held accountable. They want police in chicago who aren't given jobs to meet quotas regardless of how they scored on standardized tests. (or for entrance to higher education) Take responsibility. Don't breed unless you have the tools to provide and mentor a youngster - whether you're white/black/latino, whatever. Nobody gives a hoot what your skin color is. Most black people will continue to go on choosing to seperate themselves from success by not learning and sticking to the basics. Blacks will be free when they learn the difference between celebrating cultural heritage, and celibrating a culture of poverty and lowest common denominators. When success is celebrated and embraced (regardless of whether it has been traditionally "white" in this country) instead of violence, athletics, and music. Learning to be mainstream (courteous, well spoken) at appropriate times. Go tell Laurence he's being discriminated against. Dumb ass
> It'd be rich in virtual world vs. fighting machines in some crappy world
Remember that, in the story, that wasn't the first Matrix -- the one where people were all happy failed.