RIAA Nightmare: Pro-level Portable Hard Disk Recorder

ratfynk writes "Anybody interested in creating their own MP3 or WAV recordings should take a look at this device. It is a compact hard drive recorder that looks like it is the next logical step beyond ADAT. My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost. This device seems to fit the bill. Specs are available at micsupply.com. This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal." For a not-cheap but cheaper alternative, check out the updated-weekly Core Sound page on their PDA-based recorder mentioned a few months ago.

Comments

i doubt the riaa can stop this

[Anonymous Coward]

for one reason and one reason alone, fair fvcking use. we still have the rights in this country to purchase items to use for our convenience. they should not, and in my opinion, never will have the fvcking right to tell me that i as an american cannot buy a product because it would hurt their industry. its like telling a cay buyer not to buy a chevy because it would hurt his ford dealership.

They can try...

[armyofone]

This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal.

The more they try, the more innovations will come along. The RIAA are fighting a losing battle. The sooner they realize it, the better off everyone, (including the RIAA), will be.

Re:They can try...

[fishbowl]

The thing about "making it illegal" is, there is a point at which they make it "illegal" to use the device to record my own music. At that moment, I have grounds for a federal lawsuit on first amendment pretenses, and possibly even criminal sanctions for an unlawful restraint of trade.

I *WANT* them to cross that line. Then I want someone like Springsteen or Madonna to press the charges.

Re:They can try...

[squiggleslash]

Jeez. Will you people lay off?

In the UK, the popular comedians Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse have a pair of characters called the "Self-righteous Brothers". Conversations usually go along the lines of:

First: Did you hear about that Linus Torvalds? He wrote an operating system and distributed to everyone for free
Second: Ah Torvalds, a master of his craft. His Linux kernel is widely regarded as one of the finest components of the GNU/Linux operating system, a superbly designed example of technical excellence
First: Oh yes. And if Torvalds were to come round my house, I'd gladly shake him by the hand.
Second: You're right there
First: Mind you, if he were to invite himself in, start making himself some tea without even asking if I wanted some, made a mess all over the kitchen, and ate all my biscuits, I'd be outraged.
Second: As well you might be.
At this point, both characters are seething with rage
First: I'd say "Oi! Torvalds! Noooo! You might be a superb C programmer, and your generousity distributing your operating system for free is well appreciated. But you don't start using up my tea, and making a mess of the kitchen, without my permission!" And I'd give him a slap.
Second: And you'd be well in order there. Bloody computer programmers, think they own everything.

You get the idea. Ok, Enfield and Whitehouse wouldn't choose such a nerdy subject, but you get the gist.

And the moment someone comes up with anything to do with music, Slashdotters go off and do their "Bloody RIAA, think they own everything" act, no matter how inappropriate.

We even saw that with the iTunes Music Store threads. That's the music service backed by the major labels. Those are the labels that fund the RIAA. Everyone saw that in the write ups and they still went into a frothing self-righteous quixotic rage about how the RIAA would try to shut it down.

The RIAA hasn't made any comments to the best of my knowledge about this particular piece of equipment. Nor would they want to. It's as infringing as an MP3 player. It's not a way of transporting music to masses of people anonymously. It'll make no serious dent in piracy terms. And it'll make music more valuable. The RIAA have done some bloody stupid things before, but they're not challenging Apple over the iPod - why would they try to make this illegal?

It gets worse. The writeup implies that the RIAA's solution to what it sees as threats is to go to congress and lobby for new laws. That's bollocks. The only new law the RIAA has lobbied for in recent history concerning copyright infringements has been a law allowing it to hack into computers. It's not a sane proposal - nobody would imply that - but it's a world away from proposing further restrictions on the use of content. For all the RIAA's faults, it isn't the MPAA. The MPAA got the DMCA through onto the statute books, I can't even say for definite if the RIAA supported that law, and it's not something they've encouraged their members to make use of, in the same way as the MPAA built the DMCA protected DVD CSS standards.

Can we at least do ourselves some favours and, if we consider the RIAA the "enemy", presumably in reality for being the representative of music publishers we feel have foisted too much crap on the public and who have treated artists with less respect than they deserve, at least criticise them for what they are, rather than some stereotype of what they might become.

Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait)

[Bonker]

I know, this story is not good enough to be posted just as hardware or audio news.

What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting.

Re:Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait)

[L. VeGas]

no kidding

Well at least they didn't say...

"Looks like a likely candidate for a Linux hack"
or
"This should be a significant challenge to the DMCA".

Re:Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait)

[NanoGator]

"What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting. "

Well, that speculation wasn't entirely baseless. In the mid-eighties the RIAA made a ridiculous stink over DAT machines, worrying about lost cassette sales etc.

I agree it was used to spice up the story (just like the terms "Mozilla, OGG, Kernel, and AMD), but I suspect the author was probably thinking about that. So no, I don't agree with the flamebait comment.

The way of the RIAA

[Gefiltefish11]

I believe that the long rang plan of the RIAA includes a mandatory international registry for all individuals with any musical talent. This is how it will work:

A RIAA Official, wearing his dress uniform and goose-stepping, will arrive at the door of any family days after it becomes apparent that a child possesses any musical talent. The child will then be promptly escorted to an officially-sanctioned RIAA retraining facility for indoctrination. This methodology will prevent the production of music by any non-sanctioned source, which could be blamed for hurting profits.

/premonition

Re:The way of the RIAA

[concept14]

I believe that the long rang plan of the RIAA includes a mandatory international registry for all individuals with any musical talent.

Does this mean they are going to drop most of the people who are signed with them now?

My interest is fair use?

[VValdo]

My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost.

No, this isn't "fair use"-- fair use is an allowance for you to use someone ELSE'S copyrighted material for a limited purpose-- a review, an excerpt, until recently a sample, etc for certain purposes. What you're talking about is a legitimate use that gives you the SAME powers as the RIAA has for their own copyrighted works. The RIAA can claim that you might use this to infringe on their copyrights. You can argue that they may use the equipment they currently use to infringe on yours.

W

Re:My interest is fair use?

[hawkbug]

Right on man - I'm tired of people equating the RIAA with the government. There are plenty of other reasons to have equipment like this that don't involve infringing on copyrights held by the RIAA. It's just too bad that the average person who holds a copyright doesn't have as much say with Congress as the big guys do...

Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this...

[L0stb0Y]

I could care less if they mention the RIAA or not, I enjoy hearing about interesting new products, especially tech-type toys. So "this story is not good enough" is from your perspective...with your wonderful paradigms...so yes, it was interesting enough for me to read even without the RIAA reference.

(And a dig at RIAA just adds a little bounus humor!)

Free As In

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'll copy it if I want, laws and copyright be damned!"

But when the GPL is violated there is a virtual nerd riot here on Slashdot.

Typical "something for nothing" Linux crowd.

Shhhhhhh......

[t0ny]

If we talk about it really quiet, maybe RIAA will never find out about it...

The Underlying Problem

[aster_ken]

I posted this in the Dr. Dre article mentioned earlier, but it seems appropriate for here, too. It's a bit off-topic, so I won't mind it getting moderated as such, but moderators, if you feel the information in this is useful then mod it up so more people will see the resources I have listed.

Yes, the RIAA will hate this.

But that is not the problem.

The underlying problem is this: we have broken intellectual property laws.

The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has taken America's already stringent copyright, trademark, registration, and patent laws and forced them upon signing members in slightly revised format.

So now all of these broken laws are *entrenched* the world over. Dr. Dre, even as huge (no pun intended) as he is, will not make a difference changing these laws any more than you or I. I've said it before, people. The only thing that will finally fix these problems is getting a *huge* player - someone like AOL/Time Warner, General Electric, or Microsoft to stand up and say, "Hey! We feel that the current intellectual property laws are stifling competition, encouraging frivolous lawsuits with exponentially too large damages, and generally causes the state of mankind's advancement to diminish. Their reach should be reduced, and their protections should be diminished." then we will *not* get IP reform.

So that leaves the average Slashdot reader three choices:

1) Whine about it, do nothing, whine some more
2) Write your congress people, consumer advocate groups, and manufactureres of IP and try to educate them on the true damage that current IP laws are causing
3) Create and support a viable alternative that will gain momentum from consumer and commercial support that eventually can replace current business models and content-creator demand

There are several projects in all three groups that have been started already. Some links:

For item 1: Slashdot.org - seriously, there's more whining on here than just about anywhere else I go.

For item 2: Please note that these links are very US-centric. As I am from the US, I do not know the laws or government structure of other countries and cannot make recommendations on who or what to write.

http://www.house.gov - Write your representative. It is their *job* to voice the opinions of their constituents (though usually they voice the opinions of whoever contributes the most to their campaign fund).

http://www.senate.gov - See above.

http://www.whitehouse.gov - Write the president. Your letter may not be read, but please try.

http://www.aclu.org - American Civil Liberties Union. These guys *try* to protect your freedoms. Try to make this an issue of civil liberties rather than commercial interests.

http://www.eff.org - Electronic Frontier Foundation. DONATE! They need your money to continue fighting our fight!

http://www.futureofmusic.org - Future of Music Coalition. They're trying to come up with a compromise. I don't know if it'll work, but it's worth the reading.

http://www.lp.org - Libertarian Party. Support candidates that support you! The Libertarian Party believes in a system of government that doesn't restrict individual freedoms.

http://www.democrats.org - Democratic Party. Write to their leaders. Encourage their platform to support legislation that would reduce the life of a copyright or encourage the rejection of software and "method" patents.

http://www.gop.org - Republican Party. See above.

For item 3:

http://www.boycott-riaa.com - Discussions on getting the RIAA out of the picture. It's not totally productive, but some good ideas have come from their members.

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/6540 - A new peer-to-peer network that may actually get started. Developers and content-creators are especially encouraged to read this article AND the user comments.

http://www.azoz.com - GREAT site. It's the home page of the guy who wrote the previously mentioned article

Karma Whore Time (ps... mod parent above troll)

[Uber Banker]

Parent makes a valid point, pls mod up.

Now, the website looks like it is going tits-up so time for some cut-n-paste:

--ARTICLE BELOW--

Due to arrive late Summer '03

April 17, 2003

Sound Devices quietly previewed two upcoming audio recorders, the 744T and 722, at NAB 2003 in Las Vegas. These products have instantly re-defined portable audio recording and are being viewed as the logical successor to time-code-DAT and portable-DAT recorders. They also bring important new capabilities to audio professionals including portable multi-track recording, non-linear file access, the ability to record to both internal hard drive and compact flash, high-speed data transfers via FireWire, up to 24-bit /96 kHz data rates with high-resolution A/D, native MP3 file encoding, and extended runtime from on-board batteries. The 744T and 722 recorders are slated for availability late summer 2003.

Below is preliminary feature information on one of the two recorders - the two channel 722. As Sound Devices nears introduction, additional product information will be posted. Please bookmark this page and stop by regularly. If you would like to be sent a notice that this information has been updated, drop us your e-mail address and request to be put on the recorder e-mailing list.

About the 722 (2 channel)

Features
Analog Audio Inputs and Outputs

* Two full-featured active-balanced mic/line level inputs with selectable 48 V phantom powering on XLR-3 connectors
* MS stereo matrix
* High-resolution A/D and D/A converters
* Full input-to-output routing matrix
* Mic/line-level selectable outputs on balanced TA3 connectors
* Headphone output on 3.5-mm jack with level control
* Headphone source selection can monitor any input or output, including real time post-record monitoring
* Adjustable high-pass filter on XLR inputs

Display, Metering, and Controls

* Front panel backlit LCD display viewable in all lighting conditions
* Sunlight-viewable LED meter selectable among multiple sources, including analog input levels

Digital I/O

* Two-channel AES input on balanced TA3 connector
* Two-channel S/PDIF input on RCA connector
* AES real time digital outputs on balanced TA3 connector
* S/PDIF real time output on RCA connector

Recorder

* Selectable track arming of track 1 or 2
* Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
* Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz
* Records to uncompressed .wav or .bwf (mono or poly) files
* On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo

Data Storage (Medium)

* Internal 40 GB 2.5-inch hard drive (field removable and replaceable)
* CF (type I, II, and + compatible) slot for removable medium
* Recording to internal hard drive, CF, or mirror to both mediums (identical file format)
* Record buffer of 20 second at 24-bit / 48 kHz x 2 (10 seconds at 24/96 x 2)

External Data Interface

* 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
* Serial port (future expansion)
* Word clock input and output - also allows linking multiple units

Powering

* Removable Lion rechargeable battery compatible with Sony M and L mounts
* Voltage metering on front panel LCD display
* 5-18 VDC input via 4-pin Hirose connector for external powering

Mechanicals

* Class-defining compact design
* Extruded aluminum chassis

Estimated 722 Retail Price: * ~$2000 with 40 GB internal drive

Estimated 744T Price: ~$4000

Please note that features, specifications, and pricing are subject to change...and will. This is not a complete list of features.

--E

Google Cache

[saitoh]

already /.'ed... Another mirror:

Google Cache

Hmmm

[Lxy]

This device is an odd one. A professional MP3 recorder? Isn't that like saying you bought an italian leather sofa then covered it with drop cloths as not to get it dirty?

On one spec, it says:
* Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
* Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz

Impressive, that's what most digital recorders can do. Then it follows with:
* On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo

A professional device that will do MP3, but only at crappy levels. Most high end gear encodes at 320K at least.

If you can do without MP3 support, Mackie, Alesis, and others have beautiful 24 track HD recorders that will record in 96K/32bit. Sure, it gets hefty for drive space, and it's 2U. Priced around $2K it's comparable, but offers better quality over more channels. Take your pick, but this little device doesn't seem worth the money.

Why would they hate that, how about ...

[binaryDigit]

It's a very expensive product geared towards the professional. What the RIAA would REALLY hate would be an iPod with SPDIF inputs and the ability to connect to other iPods via firewire. You could then connect your cd player directly to your iPod and then transfer directly from iPod to iPod, all without leaving the digital domain and with no lossy compression.

Doesn't matter.

[supabeast!]

Wow, cheap recording equipment for the low-budget musician without a G4.

Unfortunately, it still won't produce the kind of album you get from a multimillion dollar staff of producers and engineers, and those are the guys who really make albums that sell.

Sweeeeeeet!

[Anonymous Coward]

* 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
* Serial port (future expansion)

screw the firewire! I am gonna transfer that data over the serial port!

I've been following this...

[WookieOnTheRun]

Ok, there are some problems with both of these units. I've been following their production from the get-go as I work within the audio industry. First off every single thing core sound has made in the past is CRAP. Poorly made, known to occasionally damage audio gear and so on. Look at their sony 7 pin cables. They are horrible. On top of this these units arent ready for their intended purposes. They are supposed to be for live concert audio recording, however at 24/96 or 24/192 neither unit can handle over 2 hours of recording (most live shows run over that). If I want to record in 16/44.1 Ill go back to using my DAT's.

Re:I've been following this...

[jokell82]

You seem to be mistaken about a few things...

First, the devices are not made by Core Sound, they're made by Sound Devices. Core Sound was only mentioned because of their PDA recorder which was mentioned here recently. And yes, generally their products are crap and most of the time they're just vaporware, never even being released.

Second, they are not limited to two hours of recording. They are, however, limited to 2 gigabytes for each wav file, but this is a limitation of the format, not of the device. It appears that the devices also record in .bwf files, which they state are uncompressed. I assume that this is to get around the 2 gig limit.

Most of us that do record live concerts think that they have excellent potential. The only reason anyone is thinking twice about them is because of the preamp built in and whether or not it's at the same level as a MiniMe or a Lunatec V3.

So is pro-level MiniDisc or DAT recorders...

[questionlp]

that ignore SCMS or any other form of "copy protection" scheme that they have put in place in the consumer version of the products a nightmare for the RIAA? I don't think so... it would be a nightmare if pro-level equipment are mandated to have such restrictions!

I think the device is a progression from DAT, just like how there are hard-drive modules for DV video cameras as another storage device to store recorded data. Tape is fine, but not if you need to record long sessions or need to be able to work on them using NLE or audio tools without having to do some form of DV tape or DAT tape to file transfer as an interim step.

Re:Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this.

[brer_rabbit]

(And a dig at RIAA just adds a little bounus humor!)

Humor? It's pure FUD and it doesn't add anything to the content. I don't mind a bit of opinionated journalism but this type of unsubstantiated comment is unwarranted.

Re:*Exactly*

[angle_slam]

Not really. It should be a serious concern. The RIAA probably will be over all of this like it has been all over DRM, protected cd's, mp3's cdwriters and the likes.

Why would the RIAA give a damn about this? It is a portable recording device. A simple search turns up these Roland recording devices. It's far from the first hard disk recorder and is far from the best option to do what the RIAA cares about: pirating CDs. (Not to mention that portable DAT recorders have been around for 10 years). The RIAA doesn't care about professional recording devices, only consumer-level.

Two more

[Brigadoon]

Since my server isn't exactly what I'd consider "Slashdot Effect Ready," here are two more mirrors that should be better suited for it. Be nice or I'll have to take them down.

mirror 2
mirror 3

RIAA? Gimme a break

[jokell82]

This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal

This is one of the dumbest statements I've read all day. Why would the RIAA give a rats ass about this device? It offers nothing more than PC's can already do. On top of this, it is not a consumer device, so the chance of Joe Blow getting his hands on one (or even figuring out where to buy one) are slim.

This device is meant for location recording. It'll work great for those of us that record live audio, as we'll no longer have to a) carry around laptops or b) spend time converting from formats like DAT. Some people are a little weary of it, however, due to the fact that no one has heard the preamp it uses (but most assume that it's the same as the MP2).

Oh, and if you want to check out the official website and not a vendor's site, here it is.

Nice unit....

[zakezuke]

Much more in the way of jacks then for example the sony walkman dat recorder that i've experenced in the past. Not nearly so portable, and likely not nearly so quiet, but hey, looks like the perfect thing to jack into a mixing board.

It's nice to see someone designing goods that are ment to be modular. Part of the reason 4mm dat was attractive to me back in the 20th century was the fact that it was also a computer media standard and one could, in theory, pop it in a system for digital editing. Alas because of issues with the RIAA, it was a pain in the butt to get the drives though successfully upgraded the rom on a old HP unit and got something useful.

This unit on the other hand based on what I read is pretty much geared for fast transfer to a system.

I question sometimes the motive behind the RIAA getting on the case on devices who's sole purpose and design are for people who want the ability to master origional materal, rather then music pirates who use the CD. When I see this, I say, "wow, plug into a mixing board and get great recordings of live shows" something that you typicaly need the band's authoration for (well, record label and venue, but let the band fight out that aspect), somehow I suspect that it would be percieved as a great evil. Yea, the great evil the fact that professional grade recording equipment, the type you'd use to master with, is becoming lower in price and more practical for bands to actually own them selves, creating the danger of no longer needing to be signed with labels to get material out.

Re:Dude, You're getting a Smell!

[teamhasnoi]

You are heavy, ugly and will not fit in my pocket. Do you connect to iTunes? I did not think so! Who needs all that silly brain storage space when you are parroting overhyped marketing about digital recording stuff anyway.

Ner. This is hardly aimed towards an iPod user.

RTFA. Twice.

Re:$2000/$4000? Why not Minidisc?

[zakezuke]

Laptop with a good soundcard, you do have a valid point to a degree. As long as your laptop supported 24bit 96kHZ recording, and was fully equiped to handle mike and line level inputs.. then yea. But most laptops are only released with support for 16bit 48kHz, just slightly above CD. I'm not aware of any PCMCIA cards that offer this fuctionality but you, but it wouldn't be far fetched for this to exist.

Mini disc, well you don't really have a valid point on. I don't remember the exact size of mini-disk, but I believe it's about 120megs per disk highly compressed. Doesn't really compare. Mini-disk isn't really adquate for something you'd wish to publish.

The advantage of this unit to you for example would be the fact that records at twice the sampling rate of CD, higher bitrate, is compatable with the prefered connections used in recording rather then consumer grade solutions like the mini disk.

I don't mean to flame you at all, you are asking a very logical question. But imagine if you were an audio professional, who considered buying a laptop for portable recording. This would run you a good chunk of change for software and the hardware, $1000-$2000 would be reasonable for such a device that records at CD-quality. Then imagine if someone offered you a digital recording device, something that doesn't need a computer to operate, but has the ability to download quickly and be manipluated for publishing. Assuming your application is exclusivly recording sound, the cost for the stereo unit is comparable to what you'd spend on a kick ass laptop.

Clearly you are happy with mini-disk... lots of people are. It's a great consumer grade product which provides (though some would argue) quality superior to cassette what is termed, *near CD quality*. I'm not knocking them at all, far from it. Mini-disc has done wonders to giving home users the ability make pretty brilient recordings. However when you start maniplulating sounds, you really don't want something that is compressed. A few transformations on it, and it will sound like crap. Your master recordings these days you want atleast uncompressed CD quality.

Is $2000 spendy? Well, compair to a Sony portable dat recorder fetching somewhere along the lines of $800. It's going to offer 16bit up to 48kHZ recording ability, which is most adquate for audio mastering, very portable, going to need some extras to plug into a mixing board, but will not provide 20gigs of storage nor firewire for quick transfer to a system, nor will it provide 24bit 96kHz sound quality.

But if you one to say mini-disc suits your needs, then great. To be honest, I have a hard time determining the diffrence between *some* mini-disk recordings and CDs. Mini-disk is cool. It's not CD quality, but most people don't notice. It just doesn't nessicarly meet the minium requirements for publishing a CD on a professional level, which just takes up more space then a mini-disk can hold. Dat, Adat, and digital recording is much prefered.

been off planet?

[nyet]

I guess you, like 100s of other misguided /. devils advocates missed the VCR and DAT flaps, and the resulting Macrovision idiocy and DAT taxes.

Oh, and did we already mention the RIAA's attempts to legislate MANDATORY DRM into any device capable of recording sound digitally?