Middle Earth MMORPG Announced

learithe writes "A new Middle Earth MMORPG, Middle Earth Online, has just been announced by Turbine, who produced Asheron's Call 1 and 2 with Microsoft. It looks to be just as pretty and cpu/graphics card intensive as AC2. More (flash-free) information can be found at IGN and Gamespy."

Comments

Here's hoping

[jbellis]

Sierra tried twice to get MEO (Middle Earth Online) going and failed. It is widely believed in the community that the first dev team [the 2nd didn't even get off the ground] made the "mistake" of making the game too Tolkien-ish, i.e. too realistic and not mass-market enough. Death was permanant, wizards were Gandalf-ish and not some D&D creation, etc. Too bad.

So with that history, I hope Turbine pulls off the game we ("we tolkien fanatics") want to see, but I'm not making any bets on it.

Re:Here's hoping

[Karhgath]

Exactly. In fact, a good PD system will nearly eliminate PKillers and that sort of people, and strengthen the community and interaction between players, much more than a conventional game could.

Like I said before, the idea is to solve the problems of PD(death by lags and glitches for example) and not just whine about them, but actually try to solve them. It's easy to say PD won't work because of X or Y, but it's harder and more rewarding, I think, to try to actually solve those problems. These new ideas might revitalize the MMORPG market, EVEN if the game fails, the ideas and new features because of PD might be really useful even for other games.

Check a discussion I'm having on BluesNews about PD, posts #11 and up.

MEO Discussion on BluesNews

Re:Here's hoping

[Karhgath]

Why? I mean, there as SOOO much MMORPG that the market is pretty crowded and getting shares of it is starting to be pretty hard. Now, to take those shares, you can make a risky MMORPG with PD and maybe, just maybe, this will lead to a better game and maybe a bigger share than if you just had done a normal MMORPG with some 'new' features. Or it might fail. Risky business is, well, risky, but usually the reward is much greater, especially with stiff competition.

Now, in a PD game, you MUST remove all(or a vast majority of) 'unfair' deaths, like disconnects, lags, glitches, etc. There are many ways you can handle this, one, maybe not the best, would be to have 3 state: alive, incapacitated and dead. When you get under 0 HP, you are incapacitated., loosing some XP or even permanent HP or such. When in that state, monsters will switch to another target(thus not really killing you), and you cannot use any 'physical' skills and such, only mental ones, but with great difficulties. If you are in a group, the rest of the team will probably kill the monster and heal you. If you were alone(BAD idea in a PD game), what happens depends on the monster. Some might just let you rot there until someone finds you or you slowly heal. Or, he might bring you to his camp to eat, which gives rescuing opportunities, and ways for you to escape. Others, more powerful and dangerous monsters might just eat you whole or shred you to pieces. However, those would be rare, and you would know that beforehand, so it's very risky to try to bring down a dragon or such, especially alone. With good monster AI, you could have opportunities to retreat and bring the incapacitated characters with you, go back to town, heal up and try to go back better prepared.

Furthermore, even creatures that can really kill you, takes time to 'eat you', and are vulnerable when doing so, so it gives you even more chances of being rescued or even 'waking up'. The same holds true for PvP, as someone that incapacitate you have a CHOICE of leaving you there, rotting away, or really killing you. Permanently killing you would have deep consequences (alignment/humanity shift, killer flags, big bounties on you) and takes some time, and during this time, you would be vulnerable to attacks, and thus, it's a double edged sword, you could be permanently killed while trying to do the same to someone else. If you play Vampire the Masquerade, think of it as a kind of Torpor/Incapacitated mix and Final Death, with diablerie the only way to put someone in Final Death.

The possibilities are endless, and this is just a somewhat half-assed idea, but even that could bring a breath of fresh air to MMORPG.

Re:Here's hoping

[HBI]

Gandalf and Sauron were both Maiar, immortal beings. They both participated in the Music of Iluvatar before the beginning of the world.

Sauron was a Maia bewitched by Melkor early on. He served as his lieutenant in Endor (Middle Earth) while he was chained in Valinor for three ages. After Melkor/Morgoth was defeated at the end of the First Age, Sauron fled into Middle Earth and started some good old empire building.

Gandalf was the Maia Olorin, clothed in gray by Manwe and Varda and sent off into Middle Earth to counter the evil of Sauron, as many of the Eldar had fled. He was one of the five Istari (wizards), all immortals who took on mortal guise. He was the only one that didn't stray from his task.

Killing them was fundamentally impossible. Even Saruman didn't die. He just fled into the West and was probably cast outside of Arda...but only Manwe knows.

Humans did not come back. They were given the 'gift of Man', ie. they left the world and did not return after their death. Whereas, the Eldar *could* come back. They went to the Halls of Mandos in western Valinor upon death and could be released after a time. It is said that Finrod Felagund was released from Mandos, as were Beren and Luthien, but they were a special case that required the intervention of the Valar themselves.

The Eldar who came back from Mandos, incidentally, were not permitted to depart Valinor again.

Frodo pulled through, beside his very mortal constitution, because of the application of what you might call magic. Athelas, the miruvor of Imladris, and that bit of song that Glorfindel sang over him. All of those were attempts to arrest the progress of the shard of Morgul-blade from killing him. Eventually only Elrond fortified by Gandalf were able to locate and destroy it.

I used to do theme for a Tolkien MMORPG so ...sorry for the digression.

Re:Here's hoping

[0spf]

You raise many valid possible problems but I think there is a solution. Every character ages and dies naturally or by combat. This game would not be popular with people who enjoy raising stats and skills as quickly as possible so they can lord over the land with their god like powers. I think it would be popular with others who enjoy the process of building a character more than the eventual result (weekend warriors). We have many examples of the former and few or the latter.

It will still suck big time when the character you have put months into dies but the pain would be some what lessened if they were going to die in another month anyway. (over 50 death matches anyone?)

NWN will eventually get old

Will they double charge?

[Jason1729]

My objection to MMORPGs is that you have to buy the software and pay a monthly fee. I will pay one or the other, but not both.

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:Will they double charge?

[Jason1729]

Historically, there's been no signup fee, only monthly fees.

My first internet account in 1993 charged a sign-up fee, and then when I switched to high-speed in 1997, there was an other sign-up fee. It's only more recently that customers have smartened up and will refuse to pay it. It's too bad they're still making the same stupid mistake again. I will never pay another activation fee. I don't have a land-line because my phone company does have a fee. They also offer satellite TV, high-speed internet, and cellular phone service, all three of which I get from other companies because this one changes an activation fee on their land lines. In all, I spend over $150/month with other companies that I would spend with the phone company if they didn't have the one-shot $50 activation fee, I have also talked dozens of people into going with their competition.

EQ is not interchangeable with DAOC, Star Wars Galaxies, or The Sims Online.

You're wrong here too, it may not be the exact same service, but it fills the same market. These games are in direct competition with each other. If someone signs up with Sims Online, it drastically decreases their chances of signing up with EverQuest. People only have so many hours a week to play the games, and only want to incur so many of the monthly fees. If EQ offers a better deal, they will steal business from SWG, even if the player would prefer SWG.

That's exactly the same mistake Polariod made and that's why polariod is in receivership right now. They thought they were in the "self-developing picture" market and had a monopoly, but in reality they are in the "instant picture" market and are competing with digital cameras.

If someone has to pay $50 for the MMO, they are taking a big risk that they might hate the game. If they just have to pay the $10 fee for the first month, a lot of people who would never consider risking the $50 will try the game, and a lot will decide they like it and keep playing (and paying).

If the game was free, how do the customers get it?

I answered this earlier. Sell the for the price of the first month of service and include the first month free. They will probably break even on the discs, and then have to eat the first month of service, but they will make up for it many times over in more customers.

Surely they must have thought of this model as well; perhaps there's some good reasons why they don't use it.

Surely the book publishers must realize that a lof of people enjoy reading on their PDAs, and that is a great opportunity.
Surely the RIAA must realize that people like having their entire music library on their computer so they don't have to deal with swapping discs, so copy protection is a bad thing and electronic distribution is good.

300,000 copies at a more realistic $50, 20% of which might go to the developer

So you're saying that the developer only gets the value of the one month of service out of the game anyway and the rest is lost in the distribution channel. That means the publisher doesn't even get any benefit from charging the customers but they've introduced a huge dis-incentive to potential customers.

Jason
ProfQuotes

+5 whip of flame

[Whitecloud]

can i play a balrog? seriously though, me and millions more can't play until the ISP's drop prices for broadband. Over here in New Zealand we have to pay premium price's which are aimed at business clients not home users...supply and demand guys! drop prices and watch as the LoTR servers start getting a real workout!

already been done

[nomadic]

In the MUD world, at least. MUME (among others) has been doing it for years. I'd give the address, but I'd feel bad if it was slashdotted, even though I don't play it anymore.

Re:already been done

[Anonymous Coward]

MUME, for those who don't know, is a MUD based on Middle Earth. My question is, are they in danger of a lawsuit from the sue-happy Entertainment Industry? In the past, I could see how something like that could slide, as there are relatively few players on the MUD (several hundred--a lot for a mud, not a lot when compared to the number of people who have computers, for example), but now there's going to be a MMORPG, and MUME is sucking potential money away from it.

Crack Marketing 101

[asv108]

If a MMORPG just had a monthly fee, and a freely distributable/downloadable ISO, their increased sales would more than make up for the loss in revenue associated with ditching a retail box. There should also be a free 7 day trial that automatically converts to a paid account after 7 days. They should use crack dealer marketing: give them a free taste and get them hooked. The Safari free trial is a classic example in my case. After bad experiences with ebooks in the past, I didn't even consider trying Safari when it first came out. 2 months ago I saw a free trial offer, now I plan on keeping my Safari account for a long time to come.

There are three main problems with MS/Turbine game

[Anonymous Coward]

As a long time player of Asherons Call 1 (On the Player Killer Only server known as Darktide). There are problems that plauge MS/Turbine games.

#1) Lag, Sweet Horrible LAG!!!

Wanna go PvP on a Player Killer Only Server? Well good luck having huge battles between clans, having more than 50 people in a single area will cause your ping to skyrocket!

Non Player Killer servers suffer from the same thing, which are gathering places where "carebears" hang out for hours on end chatting. Log on or travel to a main hub or spot and get massive lag, sometimes these people create lag on purpose casting excessive spells which slow down your video rendering or spam your chat box with scripted responces.

No matter how fast your Broadband connection is, you will never get a ping under 100ms.

#2) Rules that MS/Turbine dont bother to enforce.

They hire 10 admins to enforce the rules governing 500,000 players and it just doesnt work. People cheat, hack, exploit and even if theyre caught doing it, even if they admit to doing it and tell others how, they wont get punished. Massive item duplication sprees that as an end result cause gaming servers to CRASH!! Holy Crap MS! They are crashing your servers and you dont even give them so much as a slap on the wrists!

#3) Scripted/Macros.

Since MS heavily relies on scripts to test almost all their products including their games, this latest game will be prone to macros. Its a shake n bake on AC1. You dont even have to do anything, people level for you by passing up Experience Points (The Vassal/Patron system) through an XP chain. Scripts are created to not only level, but for skills and trades. The products of these skills can be sold, so no need to go hunting for cash.

Of course the more MS/Turbine forbids the use of Macros, the more people do it. Its crazy right now, and the new rules strictly stating that macros are against the TOS have had the opposite effect. People macro more than ever.

PS
Their support is horrible.

Re:How can the game mirror the book?

[Karhgath]

That's why I think the perfect MMORPG in Middle Earth would be during the second age, or at least long before the LoTR. Times of conflicts between all races, epic wars, easterlings invasions, etc. It's a much better backdrop than the Ring quest and it's backdrop.

Something I never can understand..

[Azureflare]

Why do they insist on leaving Bilbo's early times out of all this? Personally I liked the environment that was set-up during "The Hobbit" more than the one during the lord of the rings series. Heck, it'd probably be better if it was even before Bilbo, before that silly ring started popping up everywhere.

A big unifying conflict can be good...and bad. Part of the attraction of a MMORPG is that it never ends...Or at least lasts a long time. If they start right before war breaks out with Sauron, the game won't last that long...

Suck the life right out of Middle Earth

[kabir]

I can't help but think that an MMORPG will just suck the life right out of Middle Earth. In my head ME is a rich, populated world filled with complexity, wonder and mystery. There's just no way that an MMORPG can do that justice with current technology. I mean, look at _any_ of the current MMORPGs and it's pretty obvious that they're not up to a world as rich a Tolkien's.