Databases and Privacy

A couple of stories made an interesting juxtaposition today. First read this story about information marketers scouring public records to compile personal information. Note the emphasis on cross-linking data from various sources to provide more information than any one source did - databases are synergistic. Now read this column about David Nelson, and its follow-up.

Comments

Some comfort

[rgmoore]

From the Courant article:

While infoUSA allows access to virtually anybody who logs onto its website, ChoicePoint screens subscribers.

I'm not sure which is scarier, the idea that these databases are being opened to anyone who has a credit card and a willingness to snoop on their neighbors, or the idea that they should be restricted so that only "legitimate" businesses like telemarketers can get it. One way you don't know what kind of lowlives are going to use the data to ruin other people's lives. The other way, many potentially legitimate users will be shut out but some slimy people will still have access because the companies selling the data don't have the same views as ordinary people about which businesses really ought to see it. I guess that's the general problem with data like this; it's tough to know who is going to misuse it until it's already too late, so it's almost impossible to make it available without it causing problems.

Re:Some comfort

[IdleTime]

In most other countries than the US, this would have been illegal to collect.

I know several countries where you as a company would have to apply for a license and with very strict rules as to what you can or can not store of information and for how long and how people can ensure that all the information collected about you can be deleted permanently if you wish so.

There is no need for any company to have all that information about a person and it severly impacts my privacy.

The New Government Blacklist

[Alien54]

Personally, I would like to add the names of a few politicians and other politically connected celebrities to the "cannot remove list".

Bet that would make things get sorted out pretty quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Bold Marauder]

...but isn't this the same set of issues that lead to the various privacy measures that web portals enacted somewhere around 1999?

DARPA

[anaesthetica]

Looks like we don't even need to worry about Total Information Awareness, Carnivore or our FBI files. The corporations are going to do all the work towards the police state, at the low low rate of $8 a record!!! They gather our information, they push for laws to restrict our freedom and extend the control of a few over cultural symbols, means of communication, and ideas themselves.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power"-- Mussolini (I think)

Random Lies

[miu]

I only give good info to my bank, insurance company, employer and the government.

Anyone else? I Lie. Sometimes I'm a yak herder with a yearly income of ~$6000, other times I'm a "Decision Maker" with a yearly income of $800k+.

I used to get frustrated and angry when asked for personal info. Now I wind up happy because I'm stickin' it to the man, and the shlub collecting my info is happy because he didn't get called a nosy fuckhead by an irate stranger.

Re:I don't understand why /. opposes this

[Azureflare]

The whole POINT of marketing is to make people think they want something, when in fact they never wanted it before the marketing got to them. I don't want incessant ads that companies think I "want" to see; the only thing I want is to be left alone, and not be "persuaded" to buy useless junk that will just sit in a corner and collect dust.

David Brin had it right

[A nonymous Coward]

In Transparent Society, he said we can't keep that privacy, like you say, it's long gone from the barn. But trying to restrict who gets to see it is also a long gone horse. The rich and powerful will always have access, legally and openly or otherwise.

Best to let EVERYBODY look at ALL info. Right now, the rich and powerful can look at everybody's info, but (1) we don't know it, and (2) we can't look at theirs.

I'd rather be able to look at everybody's info, including the rich and powerful, even at the tradeoff of knowing that my neighbors are looking at mine.

The problem isn't that the info is available. The problem is that it is only available to the rich and powerful.

Re:Good thing databases are perfect!

[ratboy666]

But the information doesn't have to be scrubbed. All we need is a LOT of it. Don't assume that the people doing the correlations are stupid. For example, you left information in your post above.

From your post, I deduce that you have a college level (post-secondary) education [spelled anonymous correctly]. You are not a "professional" typist. [misstyped "their" as "thier". Confirms first point, you didn't use a spell checker]. Since you used "QA" and "DB", you have familiarity with, or work in the Information field. You used the expression "totally bogus". From this, I deduce you are between 22 and 37 year of age.

I could go on. But I won't. This type of information can be extracted from (say) 10 minutes of your life.

The point I am making (and one of the articles was making), is that it is possible to track EVERYTHING. ALL the minutes of your life.

Nothing by itself may be relevant, but it is possible to uniquely identify a person by 3 or 4 markers. These markers may vary, but they CAN be pulled together. TIA is GOING to pull them together. Indeed, private companies are doing it.

"They" are going to know us better than we know ourselves.

And, it seems that only reasons are to prevent a few people from blowing things up, and to sell us more razorblades.

Ah well, progress.

Ratboy.

The ChoicePoint Way

[Valdrax]

I'm not sure which is scarier, the idea that these databases are being opened to anyone who has a credit card and a willingness to snoop on their neighbors, or the idea that they should be restricted so that only "legitimate" businesses like telemarketers can get it.

Considering the recent actions of ChoicePoint, I find the latter far more scary than the former. At least with the former, I can log into their site and see what they say about me. I can't do that with ChoicePoint. Imagine how different things might be in our country right now if all the banned voters in Florida had been able to see that they were incorrectly on the list before the last Presidential election.

privacy vs openess (free vs. totalitarian)

[Broadcatch]

The problem isn't that the info is available. The problem is that it is only available to the rich and powerful.

And it's only getting worse!

One of the fundamental contrasts between free democratic societies and totalitarian systems is that the totalitarian government [or other totalitarian organization] relies on secrecy for the regime but high surveillance and disclosure for all other groups, whereas in the civic culture of liberal democracy, the position is approximately the reverse. -- Professor Geoffrey de Q Walker, dean of law at Queensland, critiquing ID cards (1986)