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Mars Flier Prototype
SEWilco writes "BBC News reports that a full-scale prototype of a Mars flier will be built. The ARES glider will unfold in midair for a mission which may cover 850 km (528 miles). I wonder if its huge wings would allow it to be tossed back in the air by a storm in that thin air, although probably not by "winds of a few m/sec"."
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Wow. If this succeeds, there'll be "space plane(s)" on Mars by 2008. I'm extremely curious what the required budget is for this project. Anyone know? 10 million USD? 100 million USD?
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With the lack of clouds, I think a pathfinder, like the two that NASA created, could be possible. A pathfinder would work well in that low gravity, despite the air density, and we could have a continuous stream of data forever (Or till the pathfinder warranty expires). They should ideally have highres cams pointing downwards for high res ground pictures and could occasionally swoop real low and detect moisture and other chemicals.
Heck they could release many pathfinders in the atmosphere, let em interconnect with long wave radio, and allow them to provide GPS-like location radio for ground machines. If they could act like ipv6 routers between themselves, we would have a mars internet started with ipv6 from ground up.. aliens would be tempted to login and try to crack the pentagon honeypots. Who wants the domain internic.mars?
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This article is about an older prototype that was flown 2 years ago.
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seems like a great idea, and a superb way to survey more of the mars surface.
Let's face it, satellites only get you so much resolution (look at the recent US military campaign)... drones and gliders have the potential to give us better pictures.
I just hope they do some rarefied atmosphere wind-tunnel testing; would be embarassing to have this thing plunge to the surface because someone was expecting an earthlike atmosphere...
Yeah, yeah, I know they'll test for it... but after that supposed metric/english conversion error... really makes you want to micromanage.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
when this thing lands and G.W. Bush, in full combat flight suit, steps off to greet the smiling Martian press...
I very much doubt that it would be able to use rising current to stay up in the air for a couple of reasons. First the aerodynamics. The wings would have to have a much larger aspect ratio, or span vs. chord length, since that govers much of your aerodynamic efficiency. you need to be very efficient to use air currents to gain altitude. Modern gliders, which are able to use rising currents, are able to do that because they very high aspect ratios compared to most airplanes, including this one. They probably can't increase the wing span a lot because you still have to pack this thing up in a rocket, plus I'm sure there are design (weight?) constraints for spring to deploy the wings. Don't want to make them too soft, since you have some aerodynamic loads that you may need to overcome during deployment, but not too stiff to minimize the weight and you don't want the wings to unfold too fast and snap off if you don't beef up the structure, ie more weight.
Second problem and a major one, is the control system. Developing algorythms to read atmospheric conditions to find sources of rising air would be very difficult to say the least. That's why we don't have cars that drive themselves. it's hard to design the control and sensing algorythms. You'd have to use thermals or ridge lift to gain altitude. I doubt you could use storms due to the dangerous, highly nonlinear environment.
... has some Mars models (fliable) available here in case anyone wants to try and get a feel for the flight dynamics of this sort of trip.
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Pretty interesting, though I don't suppose there's an ARES model for X-plane yet, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't one soon
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More pertinant to this particular mission, though, and intersting in regard to the general debate, is the point that in this instance, we are looking at an unmanned mission with capabilities in fact different, not just lesser, than those of a manned mission. Certainly there is much valuable information to be gained from a manned mission that a glider will not provide, but by the same token, this mission will provide greater mobility and a larger sampling of the planet than any traditional manned (or unmanned) missions can.
While we all want to see manned missions, at the same time we must realize that pragmatically, unmanned missions often have not only more for the money, but more in and of themselves to contribute.
This seems like an bad idea. The Mars Flier is a glider, which means it will have a very limited time aloft. 90 minutes from drop to landing in Earth's thick atmosphere - How long in Mars's thin atmosphere? I hope they train the on board computer to catch a few thermals here and there, otherwise this is a waste. A better idea would be a balloon or dirigible. These can stay aloft for days, weeks even. (Ultra long duration balloons could carry a lot more intstumentation than a glider. Theoretically, a balloon could even land, sample, and relaunch.
Nasa really needs to have another stunningly successful mission, like the pathfinder mission. Spending million of taxpayer dollars for a 90 minute glider mission will make them look bad.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Ares is in competition with three other Mars exploration proposals for a Nasa launch in 2007. The final selection of one, or possibly two, missions will be made later this year.
It isn't necessarily going to Mars.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Besides, no one's going to be seeing that thing again once it crashes. It's not like we're ever going to get to Mars, at this rate.
What the HELL is up with the flag-all-over-the-wings design?
I doubt seriously they'll waste weight on paint if, god forbid, the thing ever goes into production- so this was clearly "spiced up" as the selling image. Did NASA think it would have better chances all gussied up and make congressmen get all patriotic?
Or is the plan to call them "Unamerican" if they vote against it, because, say, Bush has dug us a budget hole so big it'll take us decades to get out of it? Yeah, we really need the shiny, flag-covered toys, don't we?
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Actually, the Mars version has a small hydrazine thruster on the back. It doesn't glide, it is powered flight.
They say it will cover 850km (500mi). No speed range is given but I would think it would take a a few hours.
You're right, though, that a long-duration balloon could cover even more territory.
Yeah, must be meant to frighten marsian terrorists. Anyway, should it fail and drop to the ground like a stone it may still serve to claim all of the mars as an us colony.
~dp
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
Having said that, in 1989 the French and the USSR started work on Mars 96, a spaceprobe that would have sent a balloon to Mars.
Mars 96 would have sent a 65kg probe to the surface which would have been slung below a helium balloon. During the day, the Sun would warm the gas and increase bouyancy. The balloon would drift in the Martian winds taking panoramic photographs and making meteorological measurements.
As the Sun set, the gas would cool, the balloon would sink and come to rest on a long semi-rigid tail that would have kept the balloon clear of the surface so that it would not have become damaged. The tail would have contained sensors that would have performed geological tests on the Martian surface.
Sadly the mission was cancelled in the budget crisis that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Best wishes,
Mike.