Microbes Pass Valuable Gas

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Posted by michael on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @12:42AM from the tiny-bubbles dept.

inimicus writes "Wired reports: 'With a reliable source of hydrogen, fuel cells can produce energy with water as the only byproduct.' The good news is that there's a functional prototype (measuring 0.7 square centimeters and less than 1 millimeter thick) that produces 1 microwatt of power -- approximately enough to power a digital wristwatch. Personally, I'm intrigued by the concept of powering my laptop with sugar-water..."

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How is the "Battery Life"? by Marillion · 2003-05-21 01:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Obviously this is still a long way from running my laptop. But, does anyone who might be involved in this stuff know what the projections are for how long a typical "charge" will last before you have to "recharge." The metaphor being how long you can go before you must resupply nutrients and/or enzymes and/or biologicals.

--
This is a boring sig
I just can't resist... by Ioldanach · 2003-05-21 01:35 · Score: 2, Funny

I can just see myself in 15 years carrying around a laptop with a bacterial battery. "Oops, power's low, must be time to feed the laptop."
Of course, when the battery dies, it really dies.
1. Re:I just can't resist... by NanoGator · 2003-05-21 05:50 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  "Of course, when the battery dies, it really dies. "
  
  If my experience with a Tomogatchi is any indication, this technology will be a moneypit.
  
  --
  "Derp de derp."
2. Re:I just can't resist... by dbrutus · 2003-05-21 09:15 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  According to the article, they're thinking about using this for implantable devices like pacemakers. Imagine the consequence of too little sugar in the bloodstream then. "I'm dying for a snicker's bar" indeed. B-)
Sugar Water by j-turkey · 2003-05-21 01:38 · Score: 2, Funny

Personally, I'm intrigued by the concept of powering my laptop with sugar-water...

Why not -- I'm sure that when in coding-mode, most of us are already powered by sugar-water (insert favorite carbonated high-fructose corn syrup based beverage).

--turkey

--

-Turkey
Overclocking by bassburner · 2003-05-21 02:05 · Score: 2, Funny

So if you wanted to overclock could you just dump in one of those giant Pixie Stix?
Hydrogen balooney by Muhammar · 2003-05-21 03:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

"a 53-cubic-foot reaction chamber would provide enough hydrogen to run a 200-kilowatt fuel cell and supply energy for about 20 houses"

1. I do not believe that they can produce that much hydrogen from this much volume - maybe she is talking about the peak output her 15 liter tank, multiplied by the factor to get to 200kW "to power 20 houses".

2. 10kW per house is actualy very little - this is another example of "data massage". Average hair dryer takes about 2kW, so does ironing your shirt or vacuum your room. I am not talkig about things like electric laundry dryer or A/C. I *lived* in place which had 20Amp circuit brakers (which gives 20kW at 120V), and the circuit brakers were out all the time. We had an electric heater, but neither A/C nor laundry in the apartment.

3.Running fermentor is not the easiest thing to do - you have to keep the microbes happy - the output can vary, there can be problems with contamination (some mold gets in which wipes out the bacterias over time) etc. And they smell bad.

4. Using a fermentation tank to power laptop is pure unmitigated balooney - here the power source can be more expensive than with household source. With laptop, the premium is on weight+size. Much more compact and fairly affordable source of hydrogen for laptops can be sodium borohydride: this is a common industrial chemical, water-stable and 40g of the stuff + 40g of water produces 8g of hydrogen, which is one of the best weight ratios with nonelectrolytic sources of H2.

5. Enviro-technologies development: most of the time it's a confederacy of shabby science, political pressure and populism. The surest way to protect enviroment is to find a different job for pop-science enviromentalist - preferably in gender studies or postmodernist deconstruction university departments.

--
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
1. Re:Hydrogen balooney by battjt · 2003-05-21 03:26 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  In Indiana we average 1.5 kW. 13,018 kilowatt-hours per year in 1999.
  
  You weren't constantly blowing breakers, just during the peak.
  
  This system might need batteries, but it could work.
  
  Joe
  
  --
  Joe Batt Solid Design
2. Re:Hydrogen balooney by barakn · 2003-05-21 03:59 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Average hair dryer takes about 2kW, so does ironing your shirt or vacuum your room.
  And I suppose you iron your shirt 24 hours a day. I just calculated a thirteen month average of my home's electrical usage (data straight from the power bill), and it comes out to 0.765 kW. The two of us use a 25 year old refrigerator, an electric hot water heater, electric stove, '80s vintage dishwasher, clothes washer and dryer, and limited electric baseboard heating and a space heater during the winter. Oh, yeah, and the computer, tv, stereo.....and lights. And a 24/7 fan to eliminate radon. And the iron and vacuum
  I *lived* in place which had 20Amp circuit brakers (which gives 20kW at 120V), and the circuit brakers were out all the time.
  Your electrical system's inability to handle peak usage says nothing about average usage.
  
  --
  "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
3. Re:Hydrogen balooney by mfarver · 2003-05-21 05:29 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  10kW per house is actually very little - this is another example of "data massage". Average hair dryer takes about 2kWMost hairdryers are about 1500 watts, and only used for short (5 minute) periods of time. A standard outlet is only capable of supplying 15 amps, even when connected to a 20amp circuit.I live in a 1000sqft house in the South Central US, with high Air Conditioning bills. A "bad" month is 1300kwhrs, divide that by 720hrs in a month and you get only 1.8kw per hour on average, 10kw is actually closer to peak usage.
  
  I *lived* in place which had 20Amp circuit brakers (which gives 20kW at 120V), and the circuit brakers were out all the time. So did I.. the entire house was on one 20amp breaker, if the fridge turned on when the TV or Microwave was on, it would trip. A breaker mostly trips on peak loads, but neither the microwave or fridge runs 24 hours. (The TV was another story). Actually a 20amp breaker is will trip if asked to give more than about 18amps for longer than 5 minutes. Plus you have to derate heavily for poor power factor loads. Most motors, electronics (TV, computers and those annoying little wall transformers have lousy PF, between .5 to .7, meaning you can only get 50 to 70 percent of the circuit's rated power into the device, with the rest being lost mostly as heat in the wires between you and the generator.
4. Re:Hydrogen balooney by mohaine · 2003-05-21 06:35 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Actually a 20amp breaker is will trip if asked to give more than about 18amps for longer than 5 minutes.
  
  Ah, no. At least not for comerical grade breakers.
  
  In college I worked calibrating breakers and they were required to 'break' at 135% voltage within roughly 5 to 45 minutes(Exact time range depending on the ampage of the breaker). Of course it is possible thatt different mfgs calibrate them a litte different.
  
  --
  (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Actually.. by IpsissimusMarr · 2003-05-21 03:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

There was a piece done one MSNBC just last week about Ford (or maybe Chrystler) developing a hydrogen fuel cell car. And they already have a working prototype.

They have a new car making scheme with it. The fuel cell is very small and is located in the bottom chassis of the car. You can have one or two types of 'bottoms' of fuel cell and just put a different 'top' chassis on them.

With two fuel cell designs you can make SUVs, compacts, etc. just by changing chassis.

Production expected in 5-8 years I believe. :)

--
"Engineers do the work of man, Physicists do the work of God"
1. Re:Actually.. by sigep_ohio · 2003-05-21 05:52 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I believe that was GM's idea. They are developing a skateboard style bottom that encompases all the major components of the car(ie. motors at each wheel, electrical supply, computers, etc.). Then you buy the tops from the dealer as you see fit.
  
  It is a neat idea, but they still have to make it pass safety regulations. Some of their tops call for windows from the floot to the ceiling. I question how they will get that to pass safety tests.
  
  --
  Beer Die is the game of champions Learning To walk my own path.
Water Vapour Greenhouse Gas? by DeadVulcan · 2003-05-21 05:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

I often hear people touting hydrogen because the only by-product is water, which sounds wonderful... However, I suspect that's only because we can drink the stuff.
But isn't water vapour the most potent greenhouse agent in our atmosphere?
Not sure, just asking.
One must also ask how much water vapour is currently in the atmosphere, and how much would be added by large numbers of hydrogen-driven power plants. Again, I don't know. Anyone know of any research on this question?

--
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
Lego my Jolt! by QuantumWeasel · 2003-05-21 12:39 · Score: 2, Funny

No way, man. Let those fuel cells run on vodka . But keep yer mits off my Jolt! I do not want to have to choose between feeding my laptop and feeding my aqueous caffeinated sucrouse habit. It won't be pretty! So just back away from the Jolt, ok?