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UK Pushing ID Cards
lga writes "David Blunkett will attempt to introduce "entitlement cards" after the next general election in the UK. This is despite an overwhelming response against the idea through stand.org.uk. Carrying the cards will not be compulsory, but registration for the national database will be. Not only that, but the cards will be paid for by a £25 price increase on passports and driving licences! More information can be had at The Register and The Guardian."
First they disarm you.
Then they register you.
What comes next?
that's easy:
1) Disarm you
2) Register you
3) ???
4) Profit
...how long before someone will compromise the database. I have yet to see a security solution, developed in a closed environment, which is indeed secure. (GSM, anyone?) I wish more people had read Bruce Schneier's books. But what do I know? I don't have lobbiests in EU... *sigh*
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
Why do we need yet another form of forgable identification. I have a passport and a drivers license, I can get credit cards with my phot on them, all of which go to identify me as a person. Does having an ID card stop criminals? I don`t think any of the european countries have had a sudden drop in crime because of it. Will it stop terrorism? No more than passports have I suppose. But then I'm just a pleb that that think that the government is there at out sufferance to serve our purposes, and I don`t think I asked them to start implimenting ID cards.
But maybe thats just me.
CJC
ehhehe :-) so who exactly is opposing ID cards - they get my vote.
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
David Blunkett will attempt to introduce "entitlement cards" after the next general election in the UK. This is despite an overwhelming response against the idea through stand.org.uk.
And not too long ago the UK went to war with Iraq despite the overwhelming response against the idea. I guess the US isn't the only "democracy" (or representative republic) that ignores the will of the people. I don't know whether to feel sorry for the British or feel relieved that we in the US will have company "at the bottom".
GMD
watch this
Hitler was a facist.
Stalin was a communist.
Blair is... well, he's the kind of politician it takes to get things done in this crazy mixed up world we're living in.
That said, I dont think I agree with him. But Clinton's "Third Way" politics are going to be around for a while folks. Settle in and enjoy the nation building.
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Where is the outrage? Where is the "End of the world!", "Only in capitalistic GB is this possible!", "The government hates us and will kill us all!"?
Any time the US thinks of anything of this sort we have people flocking to Canada or better yet China, where they still have freedoms. This has been posted almost 30 minutes when I reply here, yet there is not a single post modded above 2 (my threshold).
When the US even thinks of doing a national id card/database there is outrage and hate and spittle against the US. Why not when GB thinks of doing this?
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
There haven't been any posts yet, but I look forward to getting home and reading quite a lot of FUD posts about how they're taking away our rights and the government is coming to get you, and how having an ID card is one step away from martial law and taking away your homes. Fun.
Let's look at some facts. Some countries which currently have national ID cards are Israel, Germany, Austria, Norway, France, Sweden, and Finland. How many of these are police states?
Only one, and that's justified when people are trying to blow you up. Still, even in Israel, there's no loss of privacy. Security guards are posted at the entrance to every mall, and military personnel are on every corner, but none of them ever asked me for ID. They'll search your bags, sure, but not in depth. If you looked suspicious, they'd probably wave you over to check you out, but I don't know of anyone who's been unfairly hassled for their ID card. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't seem to happen often enough.
Norway, Sweden, and Finland, very socialist countries, people-oriented. (Relatively) strong economies, technologically sound, and very 'european'. France, Germany, and Austria, say what you will, but Germany isn't 'like that' anymore. Well, some people are, but not the country as a whole. Police states? Not hardly. In fact, in the EU, it's largely trivial to cross borders between countries compared to elsewhere in the world. That doesn't seem suspicious.
In Israel, you use your national ID number for such things as military service, but you don't have to use the ID card as ID - you can use a passport. Doesn't matter though, since either way, the point is to prove who you are. In Germany, you can use official documents, but the ID card is popular. In Austria, paper birth certificates are used commonly, in France the ID card or passport is used. Sweden can use a multitude of cards with your civil number, and in Finland, an ID card, passport, driver's license, or social security card.
In the US, there is no 'national ID card', but you can't drive without a license, and in most US cities, public transportation isn't practical, so cars are very important to most people. There is a Social Security Number, which you do not have to show people that aren't the IRS or your employer, but everyone asks for it anyway, and most people give it up because they don't care, or don't want to deal with the hassle. Plus, most Americans use credit cards, so if the government wanted to track you for terrorism, they could court-order VISA or your bank and find out where you spend your money anyway.
In Canada, there is also no national ID card, but no one asks for your Social Insurance Number either. It's usually very easy to get around middling-to-large cities using public transportation, but for any degree of travel outside of the major metropolitan areas, a car is needed. This results in dozens of disparate licenses, which don't all follow the same patterns, and therefore I could forge an old (4 years, I haven't seen them recently) Alberta driver's license, then go to BC and use it as ID, since it's plastic with pictures printed on it, basically. If I went to Nova Scotia, it could be the most horrible fake on the planet, and most police wouldn't know the difference. I understand the same is true in the US.
What would a National ID card do? It would provide one card, which could be identified by everyone, and would be harder to fake (laser-engraved holograms, like on BCID, would be effective, when combined with other methods). It would let all stores ask for one specific piece of ID, and thus remove barriers - for example, in British Columbia, both President's Choice Financial and Roger's Video - very large national chains - would not give me an account without a BCID or BC driver's license. I had a birth certificate, an Alberta driver's license, my Social Insurance Card, two pieces of student ID, a library card, and a passport, but still, they needed BCID. Thus, to have the privilege of doing b
UK doing national IDs under the guise of "entitlements"... They learned well from the US Social Security Administration. The now-ubiquitous SSN which is often mistaken by clueless citizens, businesses and governments as a useful identifier was originally pushed as being *only* for SSA use. They swore up and down, in the face of popular concern that the SSN would become a national identifier, that no such thing would ever occur. In the end, it has become the bad-boy poster-child for function creep, used by nosy businesses and governments to track and abuse US citizens (like me) just like the cattle we have become, to be raped of our income, privacy and sovereignty and then discarded when we die (and not even then, in the case of taxes). (insert your favorite Matrix analogy here)
Freedom in the US is now just an elusive phantom of its former glory. The UK has been better in some ways and worse in others, but it is eagerly following Uncle Sham's lead to stamp out the last vestiges. Where can a man go in this world nowadays to practice the lifestyle of liberty that the Founding Fathers of the US strove and died for over two centuries ago?
Liberty is essentially the natural, human right of a person to be left alone, free from undesired molestation by governments and other people. Where in this whole world can you go to find that anymore? This is a SERIOUS question... I'd like specific recommendations.
The problem with national ids is not that they might be convenient. The problem is that they are enabling technologies for what could be very, very evil.
If you think about common interactions with government or private businesses, identity is almost never actually needed. When it is, various specific ways of determining who you are are perfectly valid, and have been used for hundreds of years. That a national ID would be easier is not a justification. Think about the root problem for a second.
When considering this sort of thing, it is important to keep in mind the worst sorts of abuses that _could_ happen. When talking about national identity cards, it clearly is important to ask, "what if Nazi Germany could have done a SELECT WHERE against a central citizen-unit database?"
I forget what 8 was for.
I can't wait until we can do away with these identification cards and use the 666 on our foreheads or hands to do business. Take a lesson from Gattica and The Minority Report, the day will come we ALL people will be identifiable by either their DNA, iris, or any part of thier body being cataloged in a national/global database. They will be able to track our movements a la Minority Report and 1984, no our fate a la Gattica, peer into our transactions (ummm, they can do that already). We are near a cashless society, so it is easy to track credit card purchases (also debit ATMs). Apprehending a criminal using these tools is futile, but they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes in the name of national defense. Most people are like sheep and will be told what is good for them, and they WILL believe it.
WIRED magazine did an article a few months back about how difficult would it really be to live a life away from being tracked with todays daily rituals (credit card purchases, employment, benefits, voting, etc). Bascially, it is very very difficult to life un=-noticed and the only way to do so would live like Ted Kazinsky(sp?) (The Una-bomber) or in Alaska in the middle of nowhere.
Hello Total...err, Terrorist Awareness Information Project and Terror...err, Patriot Act I and II.
Its just another stupid card. I have a pocket full of them. They haven't restricted my freedom yet. Just the opposite. I have a card that tells people I'm old enough to buy beer, a card that lets me buy things on credit, no questions asked, and a card that lets me get behind the wheel of a terror weapon and roam the streets at will.
This whole thing is fucking sleazy, first the government runs an unpublicised "consultation exercise" which draws 1500 responses which are 2 to 1 in favour. Then El Reg and NTK run it on the front page, over 5000 people comment against it in a couple of days and the government appears to back down. Victory for the good guys, everyone can go back down the pub.
Well, until the government decided to lose all those irritating negative comments submitted through websites (including mine), leaving them with 2000 mostly favorable comments.
Like NTK said, "What's happened to their [my] comments? Do they count as one vote - a sort of giant Interweb representative? And if so, do we all get to use the same ID card?"
That's the British way of doing it, avoid messy things like public scrutiny, pay lip service to things like privicy and the Data Protection Act while quietly ignoring them. People can complain about the USA, but at least people there go to jail* when the government gets caught doing obviously illegal things. The Thatcher government used "national security" to cover up embarrassing things long before Bush discovered terrorism. Britain has a fair way to go before we can start condemnning other people.
*OK, they don't go to Federal-pound-you-in-the-ass-prison, and they tend to get out quickly, but at least they don't retire with a fucking pension like they do here.
Over my dead body, and I'll be the first in the line to refuse to register.
Not that I was going to vote Labour anyway, but ignoring my valid lucid negative opinion on the concept of national ID "entitlement" cards, as a UK voter, and plenty of other voters' valid opinions, on the matter like this destroys any chance they ever had of getting my support.
(Hmm. What do you reckon. Lib Dem? Definitely not Conservative, they're rabidly right wing now, and I still remember the poll tax.)
Don't care if you lot aren't behind me, don't care if none of you ever know who I am - in fact, that's kind of the point - but this is something about which I feel strongly enough for real civil disobedience.
Blunkett is a serial offender; even amongst all the members of the Cabinet, he has to be the worst of the lot. He screwed up education when he was minister there - and look what's happening there right now - unwanted tests, an exam system in chaos and schools on the point of collapse. Since going to the Home Office, he's picked on the judicial system for not being as populist as he is and been in a race with John Ashcroft to see who can introduce the most totalitarian laws.
Put it like this, he's making Michael Howard look liberal.
We're all going to need these cards if we want to do anything like open a bank account, claim our state entitlements, travel outside of the UK, get a job... and we're going to have to pay £25 for a card.
Blunkett has been told by fellow ministers, IT experts and the general public (as part of a so-called 'consultation exercise') that the technology is neither feasible, useful or wanted.
So, one question - how do you kill a smart card without obviously damaging the card? Electricity, the microwave, the hot cycle?
And as for Blunkett? I feel sorry for his guide dog.
Best wishes,
Mike.
nt
As long as it happens to someone else, then who cares?
NIMBY