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Neuros Gets (Beta) Linux Support
Jahf writes "/. reported awhile back that the folks at Digital Innovations (makers of the Neuros portable MP3 player) were teaming up with Xiph.org (makers of the Ogg Vorbis audio format) to release both native Linux support for synchronizing the Neuros and firmware support in the Neuros for Ogg Vorbis files. Today they announced in this forum posting that the native Linux client has reached beta. Nice to see this happen ... I can ditch my last Windows install (well, I'll keep it for a couple of games). It is a command-line utility, no amazing fancy UI, but I'm sure plenty of folks will work to remedy that in some fashion or another and I'm happier with a rock-solid command-line util than a buggy GUI app anyway since I already do all my ripping/encoding/freeDBing/etc from scripts in a shell (so I can just add this as the final step). Next on the list is Ogg Vorbis support ... not done yet but hopefully close. w00t!"
These players are great. If I wanted a nice big music player I'd chomp down on this fast, but 4.5x2.5x1.5 (not exact) is a bit big to just throw in my pocket considering the size of some of the players out there.
I'm happy that companies are starting to tune digital music players for the linux crowd and starting to get ogg support on them, but would it kill to have a small, no frills player that can play vorbis files?
I do security
positron
when these MP3 players get marketed as "portable Ogg Vorbis players" instead. (Yeah geeks have strange wet dreams I know.)
Can't the editors at least remove the lame stuff from the submission text?
... I can ditch my last Windows install.
:)
... not done yet
Nice to see this happen
Why does this need to be in the submission?
(well, I'll keep it for a couple of games).
Ok now I'm confused.
no amazing fancy UI, but I'm sure plenty of folks will work to remedy that
Good attitude!
I'm happier with a rock-solid command-line util than a buggy GUI app anyway
Or not..
I already do all my ripping/encoding/freeDBing/etc from scripts in a shell
Too l33t for me!
Next on the list is Ogg Vorbis support
Ok, so a non-story.
w00t!
I don't think this one needs an explanation.
Check out what xiph.org have to say about this:
Please do not run out and purchase this device immediately, assuming that Vorbis playback will be supported by Neuros. The firmware we write for them (codenamed 'NeuRosetta') will be documented in its creation, and we'll have a site up to document the progress. When that site says it's 'safe' to buy the unit, then it's safe.
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy"
I concur. Linux support would be a big selling point for me, despite the fact I don't use it that much anymore. Mainly I'm concerned with the company supporting something other than Windows. A company that does is worth supporting.
I just can't believe Slashdot has a story that ends with "w00t!"...
License issue aside, which sounds better (VBR)ogg or (VBR)Mp3? I can't tell them apart.
This seems to be all the rage on UseNet.
That Neuros device looks pretty sweet.
you generally use your portable while you travel in bus or go jogging etc.
the ambient noises disort the sound anyway so you don't have to use full 192Kbps quality for your audio, besides the memory in the devices is limited and still bit expensive to expand.
how's your headphones? do you really carry around high end half open/closed headphones that cost $1000 when you go jogging?
no, you use the $10 button headphones that you got cheap from some junk shop --> no need for the extra quality
Currently you can get portable mp3 player with 128Mb memory for less than $100
how about getting one of those cheap mass produced mp3 players and whip up script that transcodes the ogg on your hard drive to 64-160kbps mp3 just before transferring it to the player
you could still enjoy the quality of oggs on your high end speaker system at home since the files are oggs on your hd
From the Neuros Forum thread pertaining to ogg Vorbis, from the head of the Neuros product development:
(...)we do wish to open up our system so that third parties can contribute to the product's development amd leverage our own efforts.
Good! another smart company who wants to help the user community rather that stop them!
On their site, Digital Innovations say the NeuRosetta (ogg vorbis for neuros) should soon (sometime in June?) be available for the Neuros HD... I was really hyped up by the Neuros 128MB / 20GB Upgrade Bundle (tho does the upgrade bundle include the Neuros 128? If not, the price tag is beyond my limited student resources...) But will NeuRosetta work on other versions of the Neuros than the Neuros HD? Coz an HD mp3 player is maybe a bit big for all my uses...
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
You should not use --r3mix. It is old and deprecated - its removal from LAME has been considered. You should use LAME 3.90.2 with --alt-preset standard (aka "APS", ~ 192kbps VBR) or possibly --alt-preset extreme ("APX", ~ 256kbps VBR) for trickier encodes (classical, jazz, rock, experimental). Those without space concerns still wishing to use mp3 can try --alt-preset insane ("API", 320kbps CBR).
/. too, I'll leave it to you to find üs, but the rules are:
.log, add an .md5 md5sum for the log and audio files to complete the rip.
The --alt-presets are optimisations for quality and have been very thoroughly tested by hydrogenaudio. They represent the current state-of-the-art in mp3 compression.
For a scale, quality (normally transparent up to lossless) and size (50-80MB up to 300-700MB) go roughly (Qx represents Vorbis 1.0 quality number): APS < Q6 < APX < Q7 < Q8 < API < Q9 < Q10 < FLAC
A music sharing network for people who care about quality exists. Because the bad guys read
Rip with Exact Audio Copy 0.9b4 (secure mode, accurate stream, NO C2, no normalisation, no read or sync errors, only complete discs with no missing audio tracks, save a log file) and encode to MP3s (LAME 3.90.2 or 3.92), Oggs (Vorbis 1.0) or FLACs. Tag correctly - for mp3 ONLY use id3 v1.1 and id3 v2.3.0 - with year and ideally genre from allmusic, name scheme "%A - %C\%A - %C - %N - %T" normal, various artists discs - name tracks "Artist / Title" and use name scheme "%C\%C - %N - %A - %T", add " (OST)" to album name for soundtracks. Move log into directory, rename to directory name +
Th package deal includes both the 128mb and 20gb backpacks. They are interchangeable, allowing you to switch out the smaller (in size and space) pack for the larger one. And the Positron (and eventual Neurosetta) should work on all versions of the Neuros. -Weirdo513
Well, in my experience, it usually goes like this: 1) user installs some Linux distro, 2) user keeps Windows around just in case, 3) user ends up not using Windows anymore at all. Once in a blue moon at -most-.
/. so I'm likely to be a geek, you're thinking. Well, here's something for you to chew on: I installed Mandrake on my girlfriend's own machine in a dual-boot with Windows, so that she could try it and see how she liked it. A few weeks later, she had stopped using Windows. Interesting, isn't it?
That is the scenario I've seen happen most often, anyway.
In my own case, last time I booted to Windows, a few weeks back, it told me, "We have detected it's now Winter Time, do you want Windows to update your clock accordingly?"
I hadn't used it for over six months.
Now of course, I post on
Windows is -NOT- inescapable, my dear AC, oh no. It -does- a few things right (games mostly), but let's face it, Linux has become a more pleasant desktop environment for quite a number of uses. Want to read DVDs without being -forced- to watch the FBI warning (and in some case the ads)? Can't do that on Windows, sorry. Want to read any video file (DivX, Quicktime, Real) with one single unobstrusive player? Can't do that on Windows, sorry (though I hear there's a new player trying to imitate Xine and MPlayer in that regard -- 'twas about time). And then there's the viruses, the sub-par IE browsing environment, the perpetual risk of having pieces of crap software trying to take over your computer for their own purposes (that last point being the one that sealed my switch to another OS -- too tired of having to run AdAware everytime I installed something), etc, etc.
Now don't take me wrong, Linux -does- have it's issues too, but trying to pretend that Windows is inescapable is at best uninformed.
-- B.
This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
As a previous Neuros owner, I'd like to share my experience with you, since I learned about the Neuros at this site.
As of the last week in May, when I returned my unit, I had owned the Neuros for three months. During that three months, I spent more time attempting to get the software and firmware to work than I did actually listening to the Neuros outside of sitting at my desktop. Though during that time I saw a committed effort to improve the software, firmware and hardware, be warned that the Neuros was at that time for early adopters who had the time and patience to post bug reports and wait for a commercial company to release updates.
From corrupted on unit databases to a firmware that randomly deleted the entire contents of the unit, the problems were constant. Every time I took the unit with plans to listen to it, I was dissappointed. During the short periods I managed to make it work, I had other problems. From the MyFi functionality being only listenable in mono to the UI of the unit not allowing you to search for songs while one is playing, the enitre experience was not worth the $399 I paid for.
If you don't fit into the early adopter catagory or have $400 to loan a company for beta software while you "test" their products for them, then buy another MP3 player.
Please don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the concept of the Neuros. The hardware was well designed, but not in the same catagory as an iPod. The UI was livable, but again, not in the same catagory as an iPod. The software and firmware were unusable and required hours and hours at a time to find the bugs that wouldn't allow useful listening to the device. And then, the worst part of it all... it's USB 1.1. No device with 20 Gb of storage should have USB 1.1 There's nothing worse than transfering data for 5 hours to find out you discovered a bug and had to transfer the data again.
Digital Innovations has great customer service and they actually care a great deal about what you have to say. However, for $400, I'd rather purchase company stock than either of their units.
I have to say that the mic on the unit and the line in are nice features. There's nothing like recording your drunk friends at 2:00 am while they think you're listening to MP3s. And the MyFi is a real nice idea, it's just the performance of the MyFi is inadequate. HiSi is a nice idea, though I never found it useful since my unit never made it very long outside of my desktop.
Before I posted this, I checked out the Neuros website. They seemed to have released a serious update to the software. Hopefully this one is spot on or a huge improvement to the versions I had previously used.
I am slightly confused why this device just would not support usb-storage. That would sound like the simplest thing to do. No strange programs run, etc.
Even for those who want syncronization abilities. They can just mount the usb-storage and then rsync the local paths.
Why the special utility?
badness 10000
and because all commercial apps will be geared to work with the MS-Linux desktop, the users of the other distibutions (read ALL of them) will still have their 4th rate "alternative" apps, and not the quality MS-Linux ones.
If Bill and company were to give in to an GPLed kernel and core system, and just port their crappy desktop apps to a Linux base, nothing would really change. Yes, the core OS is primary for security and stability, but for long term usability of your digitally encoded materials, whether audio, visual or text, it is the application formats that matter. At some point (now or in the near future), you will probably need an open source app just to convert obsolete MS word processor files and spreadsheets to something usable.
The reason this won't happen is that if the core OS was Linux, this would vastly lower the barrier for high-quality commercial applications from vendors other than MS as well for Free applications. Further, the most important security vulnerabilities of MS systems is really applications related, not OS, so they would just be porting their insecure apps to Linux and nothing would change.
OGG vs. MP3 is yet another "format" debate, and I fully expect that in the long run, the most open and capable formats will win. As others here and in some of the Neuros forums have pointed out, you want to have record capability for a lossless format for source recordings and archives so you can convert easily to whatever compact format you need. OGG-FLAC combined with OGG-Vorbis seem like a really hot ticket. I gather that the OGG-FLAC encoding hasn't been adapted for integer only devices like this one, but that hurdle shouldn't be too tough.
Yeah, you say that now. But with FLAC, the files are compressed losslessly, and in my experience, I generally get about a 33% size reduction. And with subtle music with a lot of will placed percussion (e.g. my jazz albums) FLAC does give a noticeable improvement over ogg vorbis encoded at 9.1 quality.
So assuming you'd get about 74 minutes of audio on the standard CD, you'd get 747 MiB of wave files per disc.
Note: CD Audio encoding is different than regular data encoding. You cannot fit 747 MiB of wave files on a CD-R in a regular file 74 or 80 minute system because of redundant error correction data that does not exist in the CD Audio format.
So with a 20 GiB Neuros Audio Player you would be able to fit 27.4 CDs on one player. With FLAC, assuming a 33% file size reduction, you would be able to get 40.9 CDs onto the player.
Lossless support in the Neuros player IS a big deal because it allows you to put a significantly larger quantity of non-lossy music on it. And furthermore, if you want, you can just convert the FLAC back to RIFF wave format whenever you want because, one again, the conversion is lossless in both directions.
Bitrate peeling is not yet implemented, and will not be for quite some time.*
* Well, there are experimental implementations, but the quality is generally considered to be unacceptable, so the interfaces are not yet exposed.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10