YOPY Arrives

Victor Tramp writes "Apparently the fabled Linux based YOPY handheld has been put on the market after all! Not only do they look like cool PDA versions of a Gameboy Advance SP (they fold), they look like they give the Zaurus a real run for the money, featurewise. Though the fastest processor is 206MHz, they include CompactFlash and MMC slots on the 3700 model. Apparently you can download their Linupy distro, too. And finally, they don't seem to be vaporware!"

Comments

Uhm..

[RefriedBean]

They have been on the market for a *long* time.(Ok, well, in South Korea at least) They have gone through at least 3 or 4 versions by now already. Hardly 'fabled'..

Sticker shock

[Tyler Eaves]

Yikes, the CHEAPEST model is $449, without any accesories. I think I'll give it a miss this once...

CPU is lacking...

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses a StrongARM CPU. Didn't PPCs quit using these a couple of years ago? Hell, even Palms use Xscales now. For $450 I'd at least expect a current processor.

Like a Clie

[mao che minh]

It's keyboard looks like the exact same dimension as a TG50 Sony Clie (which an office-mate owns). Seems to work for him just fine.

http://yopy.com/english/products/yp3700_features.h

[zakezuke]

Posted due to slashdotting effect

-----
* Folder like Design

- Innovative and Attractive Design
- Extreme Portability
- Screen Protection from scratch or break

* Excellent Hardware Specs
- Fast Operation (206Mhz) and Big Memory (128MB RAM/32 MB ROM)
- 2300mAh Li-ion Polymer Battery
- MMC Slot and IrDA port
- Outstanding 65,536 color TFT LCD
- Colorful LED Indicator
- CF-II Slot

* Convenient Keypad
- Performing/Ending/Editing Programs with Keypad
- Same arrangement of keypad as Desktop PC (QWERTY Type)
- Fast and handy data input

* Wireless Internet Access anywhere, anytime
- Wireless Internet Access anywhere, anytime
- Wireless E-mail
- Wireless Lan

* Joyful Multimedia PDA
- MP3 Player
- Recorder
- Painter
- Making background freely - You can do it using the Wallpaper program or the Painter easily for yourself.
-----
- Copyright(c)2000 G.MATE, Inc All Rights reserved

http://yopy.com/english/products/yp3700_software.h

[zakezuke]

Posted due to slashdotting effect

---
This is the background of the YP3700. You can change the background with a photo or picture you like for your taste
---
PIMS
Task
Memo
Schedule
Diary
Contact
PIMS Backup

Multimedia
MP3 Player
Painter
Recorder
YOPY Office
Text Edit
YOPY Sheet
YOPY Word
YOPY Viewer
Game
Sokoban
Freecell
Solitaire
XRick
Utility
Package Manager
Calculator
Wallpaper
IrDA
Xterm
Network
Internet Browser
E-mail
Network
WLAN Config
File Manager
File Manager
Settings
Settings
---
- Copyright(c)2000 G.MATE, Inc All Rights reserved

not that competative for its market

[Trepidity]

A 300 MHz Dell Axim X5, which also has SecureDigital (superset of MMC) and Compact Flash slots, costs about $200.

Re:Someday maybe...

[wan23]

Here's what a google search turned up... maybe a little on the expensive side but, well if you really want it... http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/subpa ges/cfu1u.html

Printer drivers can be very light

[mao che minh]

The bulk of a PostScript driver for "business class - I.E. complex" printers usually resides in the PPD (printer description file). It's tough getting the size and complexity of a PPD down, even harder trying to get the manufacturer to make it smaller themselves (or in some cases, like with Canon, even trying to get technical specs from them - though the Code Host deal looks promising). The PCL instruction set can be daunting as well, especially PCL 5e.

However, since this can run Linux, you can use a generic PostScript driver for just about all PS printers, and a light and basic PCL 6 driver for most "black and whites". All a PDA maker has to do is make a generic PostScript driver and and generic PCL set and be done. Making a PPD work for a given printer can be done by the open source community.

So yes, it is amazing that PDA makers aren't providing printer support.

Y vs. Z

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, let's see. I love my Zaurus .. the hardware is good (not sexy, but solid and functional), the software is so-so as a PDA, but great for geeks (my Zaurus is hacked and customized and streamlined out the wazoo, plus I got my wireless MP3 streaming, my tkcVideo movie-watching, got my customized SliMP3 server so I can control any MP3 stream in the house from the Z, got my sweet wireless Pocketop keyboard, got my homebrew RSS reader going on, got my WiFi card in full effect, you get the picture).

So let's compare with Yopy:

Yopy: awesome design, keyboard doesn't look as nice as the Z's which is arranged in the perfect way for thumb-typing. Hmm, you can't fold the screen around and hold the Yopy like a PDA unfortunately, and the keyboard is always exposed. I prefer the Z (plus on the Zaurus you can type pretty much any key you need if you know the right combinations, don't know about this guy).

Looks like the Yopy has speaker/mic onboard? My Z doesn't have that, but the new model does, so that's not a big issue.

Battery life: YOW the Yopy has a phat-ass battery. If there's one thing I hate about my Z it's the <1000mA-h battery. The new Z has a bigger battery but the Yopy kicks everybody's butt.

MMC slot: Well, as far as I know, the SD cards are faster (so they can sell you the copyright bullshit feature which is deactivated on the Z anyway). I don't know if this is slower than the Z's SD slot. Why don't these guys just put TWO CF slots?? That's the superior format in my opinion anyway.

CPU speed: the new Z has a 400Mhz Xscale but apparently it doesn't work right and the performance isn't good. The newer japan-only clamshell Zaurii have a full-speed 400MHz. So I guess it's a draw with the Z here, unless you get the very new clamshell Zaurus.

Colorful LEDs? Well the Z has a couple LEDs that blink and an ANNOYING buzzer. I guess I'll call it a draw here too.

Software: don't know much about the software on the Y. It looks like X Windows.. can I get good software for it? We'll see. I'll give the edge to the Z on this one becuase I know where to get good free and commercial Z software, haven't seen any Y software (yeah yeah, port the X apps, but what about when I want something that Just Works(tm)).

Price: Well the Z is available cheap from many places, I got mine from the HSN special for $168, don't think the Y can compete with that. I'll hand this one to the Z.

WiFi: Does the Y have built-in Wifi??? I don't understand when they say "wifi card". If it has it built-in that's a win for Y, I hate having to go off the air to use the CF slot (I HATE SD cards, and all my software is installed on mine so I never take it out anyway).

So based on my cursory glance: The Y *looks* a *little* cooler than the (non-clamshell) Z. The battery life is much much better. Other than that, I don't see much reason to get one.

Looking forward to the reviews/cool hacks/comments .......

These are excellent PDAs

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been looking at the YOPY on eBay and they are verry nice PDAs. I first read about them on www.linuxdevices.com IIRC.

Well built, excellent battery time, excellent visual capabilities and vivid color.

In the history of PDAs, I would give the YOPY a B+, but because of its affordability I honestly must put the YOPY in the A- or A category. Truly a marvel whereas it will tap into the market share of people that can't afford the more expensive Toshiba and Sharp PDAs; to begin with, YOPY uses Linux and that means entirly a different arena of software compatibility that other proprietary Microsoft Windows CE and PalmOS PDAs simply can't cover.

For all-time PDA, I consider Agenda Computing's VR3; better battery time and responsivness with a verry low power hardware subsystem, but the interfaces are proprietary and not utilized completly to this day.

Re:Only 206Mhz?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. Last I checked, Windows CE used the fast context switch extension on StrongARM, giving it a distinct performance advantage over ARM Linux.

Re:Not a brick, suprisingly...

[waytoomuchcoffee]

The bus bottleneck (was stuck at 100 for the Xscales, now up to 200) was a problem, but it still doesn't change the fact that PPC 2002 DOES NOT USE the v5 instruction set. It doesn't even use the hooks that allow the Xscale to change its internal speed to match the app, and thus increase battery life. Hell, the Xscale was NAMED after this feature (it "scales" itself).

Re:Killer App

[Anonymous Coward]

for $99 you can get a GBA SP, for another $120 you can get a flash cart and a cable. you can download various roms and emulators. how is a $500 version of a $230 device a "killer app"?

Different markets.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think any kind of Linux based PDA (or PMT in Zaurus-speak) is not going to appeal to the average PDA consumer/user. These are really a lot more than PDAs. Actually, if you look just at the PIM apps, they suck. What these are really good at are connecting to/monitoring/administering networks and machines. For Unix boxes you've got standard ssh/scp/telnet/ftp/nfs/smb/etc. There's also a wonderful app called WinconnectZ for the Zaurus that's basically rdesktop on your Zaurus. My boss flipped when I showed him (in a meeting) a server desktop on my Zaurus. Around the room it went to all the managers. They were sold on that alone. Now all our administrators have one. And I got reimbursed for everything I spent. :-)
Anyway... I wsent off on a tangent, but the long and short of it is I doubt these will appeal to the average user. Admins, definitely!
If you really wanted to push these to ordinary users, I think I'd concentrate on marketing the mp3 music/mpeg movie players on them. And the fact that they have CF card slots (think IBM 1 gig microdrive - they hold a lot of data).
The fact that you could check your email in Starbucks doesn't hurt either.

It has Front-Lit screen, which is WAY better.

[Viewsonic]

Says on their page its front lit like the GBA-SP and Afterburner kit, which are perfect ways of lighting that works great indoors and outdoors.

Archaic ordering process

[whatch durrin]

Just to see if they had a secure ordering process (it was obviously foreign), I started to place an order.

Turns out, you have to make a wire transfer to their bank account in order to get one. When's the last time you went to your bank for a wire transfer (note: there are extra fees involved).

Also, shipping to the US is US$50. So raise the minimum price to US$500.

Re:Someday maybe...

[jericho4.0]

I'm talking out of my ass here, but I'm guessing the reason we don't see many PDA like devices with USB ports is because of the power requirments in the spec.

looks a lot better than the Zaurus

[73939133]

This looks great. I just ordered one.

I have a Zaurus and it has generally been a disappointment. The built-in applications are not all that good, and its use of Qt/Embedded makes it very difficult to port most Linux GUI software to it--you have to spend time learning Qt/Embedded. I find the Zaurus mostly useful as a little wireless terminal and music player for around the house, not as a PDA.

The Yopy looks like it gets it right: standard Linux with X11. Note that G.MATE also first tried to use some other embedded window system and then saw the light.

Also, the keyboard on the Yopy looks like it's more functional to me than what the Zaurus has. The Zaurus keyboard feels nice, but the sliding mechanism is kind of clunky. On the Yopy, it's right there.

The price seems pretty much in line with the new Zaurus, the PPC, and Palm handhelds, and the Yopy just seems like a nice machine.

Re:Bit pricy still - but competitive for it's mark

[73939133]

I'll stick with my $195 backlit Clie that I got from Circuit City

No question, the Clie is a great deal for a basic PDA with a nice screen. But none of the PalmOS devices are particularly good for developing custom applications for because their OS is so different from everything else (oddball memory management, database as the primary storage model, a GUI toolkit that's different from everything else).

And yes, I do realize that making these things are not exactly cheap, but $400+ dollars for those specs - from an unproven manufacturer?

The Yopy has been on the market for several years and is apparently fairly popular in Korea. But the beauty is, it really doesn't matter whether the manufacturer is obscure or not: the thing runs standard Linux and X11, so you know exactly what you are getting. Furthermore, should G.MATE disappear, your investment in the software isn't lost because you can just run it on an iPaq or some other Linux/X11 handheld.

As for the price, you pay $499 for a Yopy with WiFi, which is pretty much the same you pay for a Tungsten C. For the Tungsten C, I think that's overpriced, because PalmOS really has a hard time taking advantage of the 400MHz ARM, 64Mbytes of memory, and WiFi. In contrast, the Yopy makes sense: there are lots of Linux applications for which its compute power makes sense, and all that needs to be done to run them on the Yopy is to recompile them.

Re:Nice but...

[Vengeful weenie]

I purchased a Zaurus a couple of years ago, as a dev. kit. I was rather disappointed in the design. The screen was nice and the pointer device worked well, but

1. The keyboard was lacking a number of important keys. No pipe character among others!
2. The memory model was crappy, and the solution to running out of memory? Randomly kill apps.

Hardware support was of course a bit spotty as well. It seems like a generally complex unit for the "basics." I'm not sure about the latest Linux PDA foray, but I'm rather convinced that a small device is a very different creature, and that Palm was right with their "Simplicity first" approach.

Yopy 3000

[novellvssco]

Although the yopy 3500 and the 3700 are the first commercially viable versions, the yopy 3000 has been around for more then a year.I have had my yopy 3000 for more then a years now and I have bought the 3700 too. It's a big improvement with the backlight support and the hancom office suite.

Re:Nice but...

[pantherace]

1) keyboard does have a | (fn or shift + space)
2) the memory model has much improved. I will say I use Openzaurus(.org) for the ROM, but the new sharp rom does a lot of the same things. (of course if linux does run out of RAM+swap, it kills it just as dead)

Hardware support was spotty, however unless you are getting something wierd, the hardware is generally supported in OpenZaurus (or you can likely find it for the sharp rom)

5000D or 5500? I didn't get a 5000D, but the original software on it was, well.... BAD. But alot of it got fixed in the original version (not release of the) 5500 rom, and most that didn't get fixed in the 5500 versions up to 2.38/39 got fixed in the v3.1 rom.

Re:Koreanglish

[Anonymous Coward]

I wholeheartedly agree. First, some background, my parents are Korean, I was born in the U.S., raised in Korea (age 7-17) and attended six years of Korean public grade/middle and high school (the other six in various schools for foreign students. So I guess you could say that I'm familiar with the Korean education system. In Korea, kids learn English in school for six years (it may be start earlier now) in middle and high shool. Korean high school students spend upwards of 80 hours a week studying (english taking up at least 20% of that time). Even if you consider they spend half that time during middle school, Korean students entering college have spent something like 4000 hours studying english and the vast majority of them can't speak or write grammatical (nevermind idiomatic) english to save their lives. It's totally pathetic. Not having studied language education and having spoken english as my first language, I can't tell you why Konglish (the Korean term for Korean-ized english) is so prevalent, but it is. I guess it's proof that when it comes to learning languages it's quality and not quantity that counts.

Until recently, Samsung, one of the largest multinational electronics corporations in the world, still had bad grammar in their ads in U.S. magazines. Thank god that seems to have come to an end. Must have finally hired a real ad agency.

StrongArm going obsolete

[AlecC]

I hope they have started on the design of the replacement - presumably XScale-based. We have been told that the StrongArm is going unavaiable soon - some time like end summer.

This is new??

[ViXX0r]

I dunno about all you, but I've had a YOPY 3000 for about a year now. It's in my pocket as we speak.

The 3500 and 3700 models were announced before Christmas too...

The sites have been available since I've gotten it, and they're released new versions of Linupy twice since I've had it.

Check out www.yopydeveloper.org. Many useful opensource downloads for the Yopy. Several of which I contributed (porting ogg123, for example :). Also lots of tips, tricks, and help.

It's a pretty decent platform.