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UK Police Expand License Plate Camera Systems
An anonymous reader writes "According to this article at the BBC British Police forces are widening their use of automatic License Plate recognition. One of the police officers involved says 'we can effectively deny criminals the use of the roads.' For those who don't know central London already has a network of number plate recognising camera systems to support the Congestion Charge system."
So if a badguy shoots someone and takes their car how does this system keep the badguy from using the roads?
Or what if they steel the license plate from valid drivers while they sleep?
This sytem is only for keeping track of law abiding (or at least those that attempt to be law abiding on some level) people.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
These methods are great for those of us concerned about law enforcement. they allow an already understaffed agency to monitor for potentially illegitimate traffic at little to no personal risk to themselves.
I think this is a good idea, if they feel that it is truly necessarry to use it. Imagine being able to use this to identify stolen vehicles, minutes after they are reported stolen, just put in the recognition to look for a car and there you go.
There are some issues about location tracking of your citizens, but as it is being used it is for tracking who is using the roadway during high congestion periods. As long as it is not used for private data mining (IE trying to figure out where you tend to shop and such) then I am all for it. If there is a counter argument, I am not seeing exactly "where" the abuses could be applied on this one to any extent. As long as the thing wasnt being used as an auto traffic cop for running through red lights and such, since we know from some experience here in the U.S. that that can cause some seriuos issues via mis-identifying breaking the law, and turning right at a red.
As long as it is used for congestion identification, and possibly tracking of stolen vehicles/people who have committed a crime and the police which to facilitate their capture. I cannot see a bad side to this.
Since driving is a privilidge given by the state, being able to track who is driving is also a responsiblity of the state if they wish to implement it.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
I bet you could foil this pretty easy by splashing some mud on your bumper (to look more 'real' :) and over a few crucial digits on your plate.
If you're driving on a public road, you have to assume that individuals or the government might be (gasp!) reading your license plate. This is functionally no different from having a cop sitting by the side of the road, taking notes, just more efficient.
'we can effectively deny criminals the use of the roads.'
I fail to see how they can say that. Public law enforcement will never be able to deny crime in any way as long as the people continue not to fear the punishment.
All this does is go one step further to tightening the hold that the law has on the abiding citizens.
Monitoring all of us 24/7 will naturally make law enforcement so much easyer. Life in Oceania 2003.
Why should any law-abiding citizen object to a two-way TV monitor in their living rooms to help inform them on the war against terrorism.
- "Law-abiding motorists should have nothing to fear"
Yeah. So they thought about this long enough to realize there'd be at least a small public backlash, but didn't do much thinking beyond that.If we're going to go down this road, fine, but as papers on the Transparent Society suggest, this should be much more open.
Everyone benefits... the police and "law-abiding motorists" get their criminals, McCarthys get to entertain their delusions, politicos get to have their watergates, and the public and press get a little entertainment over the whole thing.
"Law-abiding motorists should have nothing to fear and will be pleased to see untaxed, uninsured and unregistered being caught in the act." I don't care so much about them being "caught in the act". Here's my wish. I would be most pleased if my insurance rates were to go down *IF* this system helps remove said drivers from driving.
"Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
this system could be abused by "cloners" as the article said, people making "fake" license plates then going down town to drive while someone else is charged the fee.
;-(
Oh well, yet another problem with automatic systems
What they should do is keep a small 10 second clip of the vehicle for court, and make it easy to come in and file a claim against the device, if the snapshot or vehicle shows THEIR vehicle, then they have to pay a court fee.
Otherwise the tax is waved, and the car in the screenshot is flagged by its make and model, and its owner arrested if it can be identified again, and file a criminal case against them.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
Yes, you do realize you have just suggested fascism, right? If only we didn't have to deal with those stupid voters.
Ummm.. the story was posted at 3:12 and your comment went up at 3:14. That's pretty fast -- read the BBC piece, consider your thoughts, and submit a comment all in two minutes. (Well... the "consider your thoughts" portion didn't take much time, apparently.)
There are lots of ways to be a criminal driving around in a car with a perfectly good license tag without shooting someone and taking their car.
For starters: not paying your taxes, not registering your car, driving without a license, skipping bail, violating parole, a zillion different kinds of taffic violations, not paying child support, auto theft, child abuse, etc., etc.
In fact, just about any crime in which the perpetrator can be linked to a particular car, which is everyone who drives.
There's no difference between a flesh-and-blood cop running a check on your license plate and this automated system. It just maximizes the capability.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
It's just another tool for increasing revenue for the police forces around the country.
They day will come when every motoring offence on any major road is recorded and dealt with automatically.
Break the speed limit 4 times in one day? Ker-ching! 4x£50 to your local copshop please.
It`s yet another example of the ongoing 'automatic-insta-justice' trend.
And no, I didn`t read the article.
\\ Mitch
There is a difference between a man staring at video cameras to direct traffic and a machine recording the movements of every vehicle in the city. Unless the man is writing down every plate of every vehicle he sees than we are talking about two different things here.
Misrepresentation of your opponents side for the purpose of making yours appear better by comparison is not an argument.
Do me a favor and double it!
No. More likely they'll raise your taxes to hire some more cronies (read: judges) to hear cases. Or they'll remove the right for you to appeal the decision. Or even have a trial. In the US, most traffic violations are civil offenses, so your 'rights' are severely curtailed. No idea about the UK.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Actually, he's talking about signing into another persons hand. You hold the persons hand and make the signs on their palm. They "read" the signs by feel and respons the same way, or with conventional sign language.
Sine the signs are being done covered by the recipients hands they can't be intercepted. It makes a handy (pun intended) stealth communication tool since it looks like the two people are just standing their holding hands.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Jeremy Clarkson (UK motoring journalist) once said - Driving a car is a privilege not a right.
This is a fact often overlooked by too many drivers, in the UK there is a problem with people driving un-MOT'd (MOT is a annual inspection of any car that is more than 3years old), untaxed, and worst of all uninsured (try suing someone who can't pay). As far as these people are concerned driving a car is a God given right. Something really does need to be done to get these people off the roads, but I don't think cameras are the best solution as these people will just do something to evade detection (heck they're breaking the law already so why would they care).
Stealing other people's plates / cars isn't a problem for law-abiding citizens. *Duplicating* someone else's *is*.
This has already started to happen in other areas of the country - people clone the plates of a similar make & model, do whatever they want that's illegal - and be seen doing it on the cameras. The next day the (innocent) owner of the original vehicle has police turn up on their doorstep, or they get arrested when they drive through the cameras on their daily commute.
Of those that try to cheat the system - some will *always* succeed. The more complex the system becomes, the more likely innocents are to get hurt in the process.
The Carnivore program intrudes on a medium where users believe that they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. On public roads you (hopefully) have no such expectation. The power always has potential for abuse. Though the notion of being tracked creeps me out, my privacy is not, strictly, being violated in the same sense as Carnivore or Eschelon. Its too interesting and powerful a tool not to be used, so its just a matter of preventing abuse.
As you describe yourself, the process of stealing a car would be quite a bit more complicated and risky under this system than at present. You have to get a set of non suspicious plates from somewhere, stop and switch plates somewhere, without arising suspicion, and then stop using the car before your stolen plates have been reported etc.
With any fake plates you would probably have to make sure that the number is registered to a car of similar color and model, or the system would be able to see that something was very wrong with your vehicle.
And this just deals with car theft. Any other criminal with a known car would have to take the same precautions constantly when travelling.
There is a lot of space between "nothing" and "everything". This system would not make it impossible to steal cars etc, but would make it much harder and less attractive and undoubtedly make it easier for the police to catch people they want to catch. If that is a good thing or not is an other issue alltogether...
... many moons ago, had a buddy of mine who, like a lot of real young guys, wasn't all that swift with his finances yet. Comes new plate registration and insurance time for his bike, he found himself a scosh short, as in, beer pizza rent, whoops, no money for the ride that week. He's stuck, no idea, he knows he'll get nailed while he drives to work until the next paycheck. Idea! He's an amateur artist, a fair renderer. He got a set of testor's model paints and reproduced his plate with this years colors and "sticker" in the corner!
We all thought this was funny, and he swore he'd drive cool "until next week" when he got his check and got legit. YEARS later he was still doing the same thing!
note: not to be construed as advocating being irresponsible or avoiding social and economic liabilities, provided under the "fair funny old story" license
For the camera idea in general, this is just more obvious conditioining efforts for "the herd" to keep everyone all "commanded and controlled" up. Same in the US, they just go at it a little different, but basically the same. I mean, anyone REALLY think they will NEVER not use any advanced surveillance tech, if I can mangle all those negatives? MOO, MOO, no one says "boo" to them, everyone sucks it up, one step at a time. Oh well, fingerprinting, well, that's as far as it goes! oh well, dna sampling, that's as far as it goes though! and etc. One step at a time, OF COURSE they are going to keep puting cameras everywhere. and microphones and sniffing traffic and whatever they feel like, once they have the ability to do it. The implantable tracking chips are coming,too, it's definetly on the table, and most people will stand still and take those things. And after tracking, just surveillance? It will be electro-chemical emotional control, and maybe worse than that. Any and all tech that will make big bros job easier and more efficient,in their favor of course, they will do, and charge you cash for the privelege of having it done to you.
Perhaps a little bit of big brotherism is what we need to abolish unreasonable laws.
No, a lot of big brotehrism is what we need to abolish unreasonable laws. A little bit is what this system proposes, where the police will have discretion to issue or not issue a ticket. So they'll issue the tickets to those who can't afford to defend themselves. Certainly not to friends and family.
I'm not familiar with the road you are talking about but I agree that Dallas' roads are much faster and more efficient thanks to road monitoring. There is, however, a difference between monitoring and surveillance and that is where I think the line should be drawn. I have no problem with cameras monitoring the flow of traffic. I have a problem with cameras monitoring the movements of my car.
I don't see government tracking my movements as the loss of a minor personal right. Even if it was only a minor right, it would still be troubling. We are loosing more "minor" rights every day. Eventually we are going to look around and realize that everything we do and say is monitored by the government. We will see that one at a time we have ceded all of the rights upon which this country was founded and realize that there is no way to get them back. License plate cameras are neither the first nor the last step of this process.
Do me a favor and double it!
I was interviewed a few months ago by a local newspaper (this is in the USA) for a story about cameras placed at toll booths that would take a picture of the plates of people who didn't pay the tolls. He wanted my take on whether this violated privacy rights. I had a hard time not laughing---with the Patriot Act and TIA to talk about, he was worried about cameras at toll booths? I couldn't see how there was any reasonable expectation of privacy. But if you have a camera on every block, and if they keep a record of every car that goes past, that is different. Maybe we need to distinguish between observing and recording information. If I drive down the street, I cannot reasonably expect that my plate will be unobserved. But I can reasonably expect that it will not be recorded, unless there is a particular reason to do so (i.e., I am a criminal on the loose, the car has been reported stolen, etc.).
This post is dedicated to all of those