Slashdot Mirror
On The Legality of Public Viewing?
bobej1977 asks: "I'm looking into opening a technology-centric cafe/bar, and am wondering about the legality of showing different types of media in the cafe. Specifically, I'm interested in using a PVR to build a library of popular television shows (Futurama, Simpsons, Enterprise, etc) and making it available to patrons of the cafe. Many establishments show live sports events or even popular shows but where exactly is the legal-line that a business shouldn't cross? While I'm at it, what about showing DVDs in the cafe? While I'm sure that doing so is prohibited, would it be tolerated since I wouldn't be charging to watch them? The precedent I'm thinking of is that some electronics or video rental stores that show movies, in the store. If not, what kind of arrangements could be made to get permission, if I'd like to have a LOTR-a-thon?"
They're pretty much all the same, legally. It basically means you can't sell tickets specifically for watching LotR or whatever show/movie it is you may have playing. Selling drinks and such, however, for people to enjoy along with the video, or net access (if it's a cybercafe, as you said) is fine. You just can't charge them for viewing the content you're displaying. Basically means you have to let people come in and watch for free if they wish, so long as they don't break any of the rules (no disrupting the other customers).
Informatus Technologicus
SLASHDOT IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR LEGAL ADVICE.
Get a lawyer. It's cheaper to do it right the first time than get your pants sued off and lose your business.
In Santa Barbara, CA, there are 3 delis that operate under the name Bitterman's Deli. They have a whole Seinfeld theme. They play recorded episodes of the show on a continuous loop using a VCR. I don't know if having video tape (analog) vs. PVR (digital) is distinguished under any laws, but maybe you can call Bitterman's and ask them.
Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action.
IANAL, but I don't think this is the case. I say this because my local school system actually got in trouble with Disney because it played a Disney animated video on the bus during a field trip. Apparently, that video had was not a version that was "licensed" for public viewing, and thus was an infringment. I don't think it matters *why* you are making a video available for public viewing -- only *that* you are doing it. If public schools have to get special licenses to show videos, I'll bet you do too.
Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
I was recently to a bed and breakfast with a DVD library. If the PVR idea turns into a big can of worms then you could just install a high-end DVD player with a disc changer.
have to order their cable/DBS as an "entertainment" establishment that gives them the right to "rebroadcast" to their patrons at the location. Their prining is much higher than your monthly cable bill call up you cable co or a Sat TV provider to find out pricings, its probably based on seats/TV's/Patrons in the building. Pay-Per-View wrestling and boxing matches are outrageous (One bar I know was charged $2000 to show a Tyson fight), but there were we'll over 600 people that night, so they made that back on the cover.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Legally, you need to license the public performance rights for any program you want to show. This is really, really simple -- talk to a lawyer.
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Twoflower
For displaying movies, you need a license unless you're showing it to your friends in your home or as part of a face to face classroom activity. See http://www.mplc.com/index2.htm For displaying tv, there should be an agreement equivalent to the ASCAP fee for radio. (In fact, you might need an ASCAP fee as well as a fee for the video.) Contact a local TV station and ask how to get permission to display their station in your establishment.
I wouldn't exactly call it's declining viewer numbers, "popular."
1. You're asking a legal question. You want legal advice. Ask Slashdot is a lousy place to get your legal advice. I wouldn't trust anything anyone here (including what I write below) says about this as a reliable indicator that you wouldn't get sued.
2. You would be charging for the content, even if you weren't doing so explicitly. That charge is folded into the cost of the drinks/coffee/muffins/whatever that you'd be serving. After all, you're not showing the content out of the kindness of your heart; you're showing it in hopes that it'll draw people into your shop.
You might think that if you're not kicking people out for not buying stuff, you're not charging; but in at least one circumstance, the U.S. courts have disagreed. In the U.S., business establishments that play background music (e.g. those Linkin Park/Lynyrd Skynyrd/Leonard Cohen songs you hear in the background when you go to your favorite club/bar/coffeehouse) are required to pay money for doing so to ASCAP. Most people don't realize this, but it's true. This is not incredibly aggressively enforced, but it is enforced. My favorite undergrad bar was shut down permanently because it wasn't making regular payments to ASCAP for the taped music it played before bands and in-between sets, and couldn't afford the fines and lump-sum payment once the court found against them.
Now, the music biz has all kinds of weird licensing restrictions and legislation, and I have no idea whether or not playing video content in your shop would be similar to playing music in your shop, in terms of your licensing obligations (once again, you need to talk to a real lawyer). But the fact that it is this way for music should make you look into this in more detail.
You wouldn't trust your lawyer to write some software for you; why would you trust a bunch of programmers/geeks to give you good legal advice? Remember, you are betting your financial well-being on the answer.
"The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
when I saw the headline I was thinking of Public Viewing not as showing DVD's in public venues, but "viewing the public"
Imagine piping in live feeds with the ultimate in reality TV - highly zoomable video cameras (including shotgun mikes) aimed at beaches, at rough streets at night, the Capitol steps in DC, downtown Tikrit, the West Bank, G.W. Bush's nieces antics, Hillary and Bill's arguments, etc.
Now that would be interesting.
The day will come when highly detailed video and audio monitoring becomes sufficiently inexpensive that the issue of what constitutes a reasonable expection of privacy in public will come more to the fore than it is today.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
you aren't allowed to do any of those things, except maybe show broadcast TV as long as it isn't the main purpose of your establishment.
When it comes to copyrighted content, NOTHING is allowed unless you have explicit permission.. haven't you figured it out by now?? Why do you think everybody hates the content megacorps around here?
You have two choices: get a license for a "reasonable fee", or take your chances and hope one of your customers isn't a complete asshat, or worst yet, working for the corps and getting paid "by the infringement".
Three choices actually: #3 is not to support these corps at all by showing their stuff. play some indie electronic music instead (get permission of course).
IANAL, but I think you're going to have to pay the Man for everything you show. I'll give you an example: my father owns a restaurant. He has 5 cds in a CD changer that he plays at this restaurant. Originally, there was no problem, as the music wasn't part of the theme of the restaurant and was considered merely "incidental." But the minute he started having live entertainment at the restaurant, bam, BMI or RIAA or somebody showed up looking for his money - because he has entertainment there, the CDs are no longer incidental, but are considered entertainment.
This appears to be the exact thing prohibited as "public performance" in the FBI warning and elsewhere.
This prohibition does not seem that outrageous: it looks like you plan on using this media content to make money, why shouldn't they be concerned?
Now, I wonder what would be involved with getting permission from the movie/TV companies to do this the "legit" way.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
In UK things are different - you can't provide the entertainment for free (music included) if you then intend to make money selling snacks or whatever else in the same location; see http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/std/faq/co pyright/ex_sound_record.htm
Note that this site refers to playing broadcasts - I gather that one can play broadcasts freely (with the above proviso) but this _does not_ include pre-recorded music/movies!
Sucks.
Jesus, who narc'ed on you? Was Mikey Eisner Jr. on board?
There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
Which law blog can advise me about SDRAM?
I was not directly involved. The local papers gleefully reported it.
Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
...to keep in library for your own personal enjoyment. If you can't do that, then there is no way that you are going to be able to do what you want for free.
Talk to people in the industry. Talk to a lawyers.
testing out my trending skills
Either way I think you're going to have to talk to the content producers to get a definite answer.
One idea though, might be to consider making it a not-for-profit or all-profits-go-to-charity venture. The producers in those cases might be willing to negotiate for you to show the content for free, or very cheaply, due to the good public relations they would get out of it. You could still pay a salary to yourself and your workers and be doing something good for the community.
Just an idea, of course.
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
They show movies and whatever else projected on the wall. They'll have special advertised "dinner and a movie" nights so you'll know what they'll be playing. I don't know the name of the place but they're right next door to the Stinking Rose.
I'm hearing a lot of disagreement on slashdot (no, I am not suprised). Unfortunately, I'm not a lawyer type and the ones I know are currently 800 miles away at an unspecified location. I think that it is doable but that you're best covering your butt.
And about some place playing music in between sets, I would think someone could get around this by allowing a "patron" to enjoy listening to whatever music they wanted and it just so happened that the rest of the audience "had" to listen to it.
"Would you rather have a playstation addicted dork wearing a star wars t-shirt?"
You need to talk to MPLC:
Happy karma."He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
No, it would not. The MPAA even sued Roddy McDowell for showing his movie collection to his friends, IIRC.
As everyone else has said - get a license, or come up with a different business plan.
There are reasons to ask Slashdot *and* a lawyer:
1) Some lawyers are better than others. Yours might suck.
2) To find one fully versed in technology law is difficult or expensive. You might be 'po
3) lawyers are human (or humanoid at least), and they can use input into the creative process of saving you from the evil megacorp or slimeball patenter. Some of the comments might have novel suggestions.
It's one thing to say that they should ALSO have a lawyer and take the comments with a grain of salt. It's another thing to say they shouldn't ask at all.
This is perfectly legal, but you have to get permission.
I know this from my own experience with radio in fast food joints. You'll notice that most of them pipe in their own music. This is because either A) the local radio stations charge large sums for advertising or B) they don't want ads in their radio feed. It's actually against the law for you to go out and make your own mix tape and play it your store, because you are using their product to increase your sales. But it's not difficult (nor really that expensive) to get a license to use this stuff.
The Motion Picture Licensing Corporation.
The guys you go to if you want to purchase a one
year "subscription" umbrella license to show
just about anything you'd ever want to play in a public place:
MPLC members have maximum flexibility in programming home videocassettes and videodiscs by being able to obtain them from any source and show them legally.
Any Source?
BITCHIN. You could keep kazaa open in the back
room and download crap all day for public viewing!
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
Only bad part is that the early bootlegs tend to be pretty crappy, sometimes you can see the silloutte of a theatre goer in front of the screen!
Normally Video/Electronics places show the latest releases only because it's part of the promotional package (or, they get paid and/or certain other benifits to show the movie for x amount of time after the release). So they're granted permission to do it.
I hope that the school lost their shorts, being that they were indoctrinating the kids with that Disney crap. There's plenty of educational PBS content for kids, no reason to show the sugar-water stuff.
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eugene is wong wrote:
:-(
You're not even allowed to record tv commercials to keep in library for your own personal enjoyment. If you can't do that, then there is no way that you are going to be able to do what you want for free.
I was going to correct you, but then I reviewed Sony v Universal and found that it looks like you are right. In that decision, the Supreme Court specifically looks at the distinction between "Time-Shifting" (recording to watch once and then reusing the tape) and "Librarying" (recording to watch multiple times). Apparently the distinction is important because "Time-Shifting" would be a fair use, but the Court appeared to consider "Librarying" not to be.
I wish it was politically feasable to bring back 14 year copyrights.
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Open mind, insert foot.
seems to me that as long as you aren't charging the customer to come and view the tv show or dvd it would be ok. Customers are coming to eat, drink, play games, etc. I think it would be like seeing a PPV at a bar...except the bar pays for the PPV...likewise you should have to pay for the materials you are showing.
Nothing goonish about it. You only have to pay mechanical royalties if you're using music to attract customers. It's no different than if you had a live band playing - you're using the songwriter's work to make money, and they ought to get a cut.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
As I recall, the warning card before the UK release of the Attack of the Clones DVD explicitly mentions that it is not licensed for viewing on buses.
This sig intentionally left justified.
Oh great, here we go with the evil Disney blather again. Wake me when it's over...
You need express written consent, not implied oral consent.
I think that your idea for this type of cafe is defintely cool, I would hang out there. For the tv shows you should get the ones with no commercials like they show in airplanes. Considering the legalities I do not know much about that.