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European MP Responds on Software Patents

Wolfbone writes "The Guardian newspaper has a contributed article from the European politician Arlene McCarthy in which she responds to a previous article in the same organ by RMS and Nick Hill on the issue of software patents. If the appalling mixture of misrepresentation, non sequitur, solecism and faux-naivete does not make your blood boil, you are a cold fish indeed."

14 of 307 comments (clear)

  1. Boiling by jabbadabbadoo · · Score: 5, Funny
    " If the appalling mixture of misrepresentation, non sequitur, solecism and faux-naivete does not make your blood boil,"

    That sentence was enough to make my blood boil.

  2. GNU a monoply? by brettlbecker · · Score: 4, Insightful
    We have an obligation to legislate not just for one section of the software industry who seeks to impose its business model on the rest of industry, which moreover is not "free", but is actually a different form of monopoly by imposing a copyright licence system on users.

    Interesting... this seems to be saying that, through the use of the GPL, the FSF is, perhaps unwittingly, attempting to create a monopoly. I'm not sure her statement holds water... how does the GPL stifle competition and innovation? I mean, releasing software under the GPL is the choice of the developer... and as for "imposing" the license on users, aren't *all* licenses imposed on users? Isn't that really part of the definition of a license? It's still the user's choice whether or not to *use* the software. Simply because they can't take GPL'd software and package it without the source and sell it doesn't mean that the software is part of a monopoly... geez! The GPL certainly is another form of *contract*... but monopoly? Give me a break.

    B

    --
    "We must still have chaos within in order to be able to give birth to a dancing star." --Friedrich Nietzsche
    1. Re:GNU a monoply? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "We have an obligation to legislate not just for one section of the software industry who seeks to impose its business model on the rest of industry, which moreover is not "free", but is actually a different form of monopoly by imposing a copyright licence system on users."

      Heh, my guess is that Stallman pissed her off. He seems to do that to people a lot... She's confused about the difference between patents and copyright though.

      The GPL forbids me to take an interesting bit of software with a GPL licence attached, and use its code in my own closed source program. However I am free to duplicate the programs functionality by re-writing it, using the GPL'ed software as an example. That means I can freely use other people's ideas, but I cannot freely use their work.
      However, software patents actually cover algorithms and/or business methods. I am not allowed to freely use a patented bit of software in my own product, but I am also not allowed to duplicate the functionality. That means I cannot write my own 'one click shopping' routine.

      Anyone who wants to can get out from under the GPL licence... if they are willing to do the work. Not so with patents.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:GNU a monoply? by rnapier · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What else is a monopoly but the exclusive control over the rights to something? You have copyright on the things you write. That gives you monopoly control over them. That's what copyright means (monopoly control over copying). It doesn't mean "stifle competition and innovation." That comes later.

      The point you are trying to make I believe is that the GPL does not create an abusive monopoly, or perhaps that it does not create an undesireable monopoly (depending on who desires what), but it absolutely creates restrictions on what can be done with software under it. And that isn't freedom (but then I never said total freedom was good).

      In response to "aren't *all* licenses imposed on users," the answer is yes. So to have total freedom, you have to have no license. We have a name for that: the public domain. That is total freedom.

      As far as "It's still the user's choice whether or not to *use* the software," this is true of Windows as well. Does this mean that Microsoft does not have a monopoly? Would things change if some core piece of technology that everyone used were under the GPL? Given that we're headed that direction, it's a valid thing to consider. The "if you don't like it, you don't have to use my stuff" has always been the argument of monopolists (and they've always been right in their way).

  3. Re:Oh, please... by oogoliegoogolie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everybody knows European MPs (Member of Parliament) are next to useless anyway.

    Unlike Canadian MP's, Australilan MP's, and members of the US Congress, which always represent the people that elected them and never ignore the little guy in favor of big business, lobbyists, and their own political interests.

  4. Huh? by BenjyD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, she does the normal M(E)P thing of speaking without saying anthing. Looking at this report, though, it appears that what she is trying to say is that the rules will only allow software to be patented as part of another system.

    So, patents like the Amazon one-click patent wouldn't be allowed, but you could for example patent a novel ECG machine along with the software that is 'part' of it.

  5. Parliament by nepheles · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article is, generally, totally irrelevant. The European Parliament holds virtually no power, and is, generally, merely a talking-shop. The Council of Ministers, and, to a larger extent, the Commission hold all power. There are attampts to change this with the work-in-progress that is the Constitution.

    This lack of power of the Parliament leads many single-issue candidates, washed-up politicians, and other power-hungry novices to run for election to European office in the Parliament. Very few serious politicians will be found there, bar those who lead the political factions present. As such, we can safely ignore the warblings of this MEP.

    If only we could find a similarly talkative Commissioner. It's what the EU needs

    --
    ((lambda x ((x))) (lambda x ((x))))
  6. Re:Only one problem with that article by Uber+Banker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    His article may have boiled her blood, but it seemed pretty spot on to me, the quote from Bill G especially.

    His point is this law was written by the Business Software Alliance in such a way and to use such vague language that it will be up to 'interpretation' only to the richest corporates with the most expensive lawyers. I.e., they are taking a space where there is a need for a law and plugging their law - dress up as "free and good" to placate those with a call for it but engineered to benefit only them.

    Also, she mentioned "With many of our traditional industries migrating to the Far East leaving behind job losses, we Europeans are having to rely on licensing out inventiveness to generate income and create jobs."

    Since when does Amazon having a patent secure that patent to the country it was registered in?! Either she is grossly incompetant, plain stupid, or cunning and devious.

  7. free software won't be harmed? by cabalamat2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In her article, she says that:

    this directive will not have any adverse effects on open source software development

    So I've written her a letter, suggesting that open source software explicitly be made exempt from patent enforcement. If what she says in her article is true, this would have no effect, so she's got no legitimate reason to oppose it.

    My weblog has an article that goes into this in more detail.

    If you want to contact Arlene McCarthy, and politely tell her your views, she has a website.

  8. Re:Only one problem with that article by albalbo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The proposed directive was written in a Word file, and the original author information appeared in the metadata - that's how they know the BSA were involved.

    I thought Arlene's response was more anti-Free/Libre/Open Source Software than anything I've seen in a long time, and it's bizarre because rms and Nick Hill didn't raise that issue at all. Her article wasn't factual in any way, shape or form - she said she was against business methods, for example, but offered no actual example of actions which back that up - in fact, her previous actions indicate she's in favour.

    Useful URLs for people in the UK: FFII UK, More info on software patents. We can still stop them putting these things in place.

    --
    "Elmo knows where you live!" - The Simpsons
  9. She doesn't get it by Halo1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If we fail to offer European industry the possibility of patent protection, we will hand over our inventiveness and creativity to big business, who can cherrypick ideas and patent them.
    So what she's saying is "If we don't allow (software) patents in Europe, big businesses will patent every thing". Hello, this is you wake-up call: if there are no software patents, big businesses can't get them either!

    It's exactly the reverse: if there are no software patents in Europe, then European businesses (and inventors and every one else) can still get software patents abroad (e.g. in the US), while foreign businesses can not enforce their software patents here in Europe. So if there are no software patents in Europe, the Europeans actually have an advantage over foreign (big, small and everything in between) companies.

    --
    Donate free food here
  10. I'm never getting used to this kind of junk... by Sunnan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    She's calling a system with more opportunities for imposing patents more "liberal" and a less patent-drenched society more "restrictive".

    That's pretty weird. If I were to choose such politically loaded words to describe patent systems, I'd have 'em switched the other way around, but I probably wouldn't use them at all.

    She also writes: "With many of our traditional industries migrating to the Far East leaving behind job losses, we Europeans are having to rely on licensing out inventiveness to generate income and create jobs."

    That's pretty silly and not likely to work in the long run. Imagine a future where non-european countries provide all goods and services needed - why should they want to trade with Europe? Because we have "inventions?" That's supposed to be Europes schtick, that Europeans are "smart"? Even if we'd have a fraction of the worlds inventiveness, what's to stop the aforementioned Asian countries from declaring our patent system null and void? (Along with some other IP practices like say, copyright.) Because "otherwise we won't trade with them?" That's just silly. If all we have to "offer" is slick ad campaigns and ruthless corporate practices along with a few good "ideas" - basically "ownership of ideas" - why should they want to trade? They could just copy it (assuming their own inventions weren't enough - there's plenty of good ideas coming out of Asia).

    (And please don't talk of using military might to enforce an IP system internationally. My every fiber and cell tell's me that's not a just cause.)

    Just saying that "we own this!" and pointing at words, ideas... you might argue some intellectual property practices are just but you can't expect everyone to agree (I certainly don't, and I even live in Europe), especially not when it could be a dumb move in international economics for a country to blindly abide by another's IP claims.

    And if she's not talking about IP as an export product, then why bother? Selling each other "air" would jack up the GNP but it sure wouldn't raise living standards, it would only be a pointless excercise in number juggling. Same would apply to selling "ownership rights to ideas". Note that I'm not saying that the ideas themselves are without value - having someone on the payroll to sit and make up ideas might be worth it - but once the cat's out of the bag the ideas are easily copyable. Preventing that /bin/cp doesn't exist might be an appealing idea to some but it is just a game of pretends these days. Things can be copied. Deal with it.

    Lastly, she's calling free software (she seems especially focused on copyleft software) "[A] form of monopoly by imposing a copyright licence system on users".

    That's just not true.

    Unlike patents, anyone's free to reimplement copylefted software any way they choose.

    And unlike plain copyrighted proprietary software, anyone can use the copylefted software (both the program and source code) as long as they don't prevent others from doing the same.

    Sure, the GPL has some practical problem (for example enforced warranty disclaimers, and problems with compability with other copylefted licenses) but it's definitely not a "monopoly". More like an "omnipoly" where every man, woman and child on the planet has the same right to the program.

  11. Re:Huh? by Alan+Cox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Thats doublespeak. There is no muddle on software patents. They are not currently allowed. There is a drift towards US type problems - paying the EPO on the basis of patents approved not reviewed, inability to spot prior art etc

    A computer program and a business method are the same thing. Its dishonest to claim otherwise IMHO. A software patent is a defined series of steps with conditions performed by the box on your desk.. A business method is a defined series of steps with conditions performed by a human at the desk.

    Reality gets even murkier.

    A DSP decodes MP3 audio. Is that a hardware patent on the DSP, a software patent on the code in it or neither

    A human sits down with a calculator and decodes the MP3 by hand. Is that a hardware patent, a software patent, or a business method ?

  12. As of the parliamentary hearing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In her article, Arlene McCarthy wrote:

    Numerous people from small to medium-sized enterprises have written to me in support of my proposal.

    To me, this is the most blood-boiling point. I was there at the parliamentary hearing in Brussels in early May. Arlene McCarthy was not. The hearing was a forum for SMEs (Small-to-Medium Enterprises) to present their take on the proposed software patent directive. The prevailing opinion was so unanimous it was boring: software patents are bad. Enterpreneurs and investors pleaded lawmakers to stick to and reaffirm the spirit of the 1973 Munich convention. Yeah, supporters of Free Software were there too (strong Debian contingent, hi, guys!), but by no means in the majority.

    I could hardly muster the willpower to talk to anyone during those two days, it was so depressing. No one of the opposing viewpoint showed up, effectively reducing the conference and the hearing to a feel-good get-in-our-of-your-systems-then-go-home kind of event. The only supporter of the directive was Elly Plooij van Gorsel (chairwoman of one of the three committees in charge of the directive), who showed up for the last thirty minutes, took some notes, evaded answering any questions, then left. An enterpreneur even said to her face: I'm the one who's supposed to be protected here, and I'm here to tell you, I don't want your protection. This went wholly unanswered.

    So allow me not to suspend my disbelief in Ms. McCarthy's comment quoted above. BTW, Ms. McCarthy is also a chairwoman of a committee handling the directive (of the most powerful of the three). What I saw and read and got to know so far all point into one direction: she's entirely aware of what she does, she just doesn't care about flushing the European SMEs down the toilet. The American multinationals sure can pay for more educational opportunities taking place in Hawaii.

    Posted as AC on purpose.