Steve Jobs And Jeff Bezos Meet The Segway

deadwood writes "Ever wanted to know what Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos really thought about the Segway the first time he saw it? At the Harvard Business School site, there's an excerpt from the new book 'Code Name Ginger', giving a recounting of the Apple and Amazon bosses' first impressions of the device. Steve Jobs' gut reaction, quoted in the article: 'I think it sucks!'"

Comments

this week i reach 1,000 miles on the segway ht

[ptorrone]

this week i reach 1,000 miles on the segway ht. i really like mine.

the segway ht fits my travel needs pretty well, i don't think it's for everyone-- but it's worked out okay for me. i run, walk, ride a bike, take cars but most of my travel is via a segway...i wrote it up, here's the travel log so far:
http://www.bookofseg.com/100days/

it didn't replace walking, i walk, cycle and jog. the segway replaced my car. i don't think it can do that for everyone, but it did for me.

steve jobs said "i think [the design] sucks. its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant and it doesnâ(TM)t feel anthropomorphic". it's very functional and the desgin (in my opinion) is good for version 1 of a product, i'm looking forward to the new models which are smaller, lighter with greater range.

cheers,
pt

PITA investors

[Sanity]

If I had a bunch of pain-in-the-ass investors who were likely to tear apart my presentation then I would try to keep them as-involved in the process as possible, rather than leaving so much to a single meeting where they can rip you to shreads.

Having had a number of investor meetings in my time, the PITA investor is rarely achieves anything useful other than making you feel like shit, and giving themselves an ego boost.

There is no excuse for bad manners in any setting, and in that context I would have probably told Jobs as much.

Re:PITA investors

[BWJones]

If I had a bunch of pain-in-the-ass investors who were likely to tear apart my presentation then I would try to keep them as-involved in the process as possible, rather than leaving so much to a single meeting where they can rip you to shreads.

In this situation, potential investors have every right to be critical of a product. After all, it's their money right? Additionally from an academic perspective, this sort of thing is kind of like a thesis defense where it is your committee's job to be critical, ask the hard questions and get you to think about your work and it's applicability. But again, a dissertation defense, like a product into to investors needs to have the presenter maintain control of the meeting.

There is no excuse for bad manners in any setting,

This is true, but I suspect that Jobs had spent more than a little time and effort analyzing this product. Given that he would be a potential investor, he should have some say in how the product is manufactured and distributed. Kamen might have done well to listen to him a little more carefully as the points he raised were valid, especially with people reverse engineering. After all, the rest of the computer industry has been copying Apple Computer for years right?

Additionally, people like Jobs are efficient and can get things done with a modicum of effort through established workflows and relationships. So, when it is obvious that someone else (and a potential business partner no less) is screwing up, it is hard to be patient especially when you can see the shortcomings of the proposal.

Re:Bezos isn't the only one

[jnik]

Have a gander at John Allen's analysis of the fall. Somewhat tongue-in-cheek of course.

Re:Jobs is a good businessman

[Anonymous Coward]

Jobs isn't here to be your friend. There is a famous line either Larry talking to Steve or Steve to Larry (I don't remember) "You must be my best friend because you're the only friend I've got". Is Jobs' opinion wrong? I think it's dead on. The segway didn't ignite passion in me and from the lackluster sales it didn't do much to incite anyone's passion. It's a boring product that didn't come close to living up to the hype. Of course the hype was before the public saw the actual product. When we saw the product we all seemed to say "that's it? Who cares."
I've met Jobs outside of his industry (shopping at Country Sun in PA) and found him to be quiet and shy. The only time he gets going is if the conversation goes into tech.

Was it redesigned?

[SiliconEntity]

Jobs said the design sucked. Who knows what it looked like back then? He's talking about the shape, the way it looks. I'd say the Segway looks pretty cool right now. Chances are that what Kamen put together out of cardboard boxes was a crude prototype. They probably did get a design firm involved to finalize the shape and appearance of the device. Jobs is right, a good industrial design firm can produce devices that look like works of art.

Anyone else like SJ's comment...

[thatguywhoiam]

.. on reverse-engineering?

Partly, explained Tim, because giving our code to someone else would be a great risk. Not a good reason, in Jobs's view, because the code could easily be reverse-engineered. No it couldn't, said Tim. Could, said Jobs.

That was pretty funny to me. Is this a guy who's been bitten by the reverse-engineering phenomenon before, do you think?

And people wonder why Apple gets testy about Aqua themes... I'd be testy to, if I was the victim of one of the biggest UI ripoffs in history. (I'm not sayin' he's right.. I'm just sayin'.)

Stevie in action...

[manonthemoon]

Its interesting to get unfiltered Steveness like this. For those decrying his rudeness... where have you been? He has been like this from the beginning.

The important thing is he was giving them the unvarnished truth. His insightfulness was genuine- he saw directly to the heart of the issues.

The insiders were obviously much too close to things, too sure of themselves. They had insulated themselves for too long- they would have benefitted much more if they had brought outsiders like Jobs and Bezos' much earlier in the process.

His rejection of the pleasantries and Powerpoint crap was the essential "Don't waste my time" of someone who actually values their time. He has two companies to run- he doesn't need to waste time watching somneone click through a stupid time-wasting presentation.

I am not like him at all- much too polite in real life. But he sure as hell makes sure things happen and he makes real products that people will pay premium dollars for. They should have paid even closer attention to what he said than they did.

Woz is more segway happy

[yjo]

http://www.woz.org/seg/ - Steve Wozniak, the *brains* behind Apple, seems a lot more Segway enamoured.

jobs shouldn't be surprising, but it is

[nsda's_deviant]

i'm surprised by jobs' comments but i shouldn't be. his hardlined stance and staunch trenching of ideas is exactlly why he was fired in the 80s but his reaction toward the segway screams what he's doing at apple. after reading the article, doesn't it suggest that he is more of a force at Apple in pushing the UI, business strategy, product/manufacturing strategy than anyone else? Its clear that Jobs respects designers ("They'll give you stuff that will make you shit in your pants...") and it seems like Jobs hands ideas off to designers to give him something he doesn't know he wants (iMac, iPod UI, translucent plastics).

considering everything that went wrong with the Segway launch (how many people have ACTUALLY seen a ginger in person?) its possible to say that Jobs was partially right. the article talks about the ginger but it screams the way Jobs thinks and approaches a problem. the launch of ginger is interesting but give me a book about Jobs rants from the past 8 years and I'll shell out for that. Not to mention the Pixar vs Disney negotiations... (Disney is going to get ownned)

just ranting...
doesn't it make you wonder about WWDC being Apple's internal code for 'We Will Delight Crowds'?

Re:Jobs said the DESIGN sucks

[Dragonfly]

That's an oversimplification and untrue. Read the article, you'll see that while he had all sorts of things to say about how the marketing, manufacturing, and design procceses should proceed, he never once said anything derogatory about the concept of the Segway itself.

Another Example of Jobs' Candidness

[SonOfFlubber]

The following was related to me by my co-worker Eric, who was the first American employed at Apple Japan:

Shortly after Eric arrived in Japan in the early 80's, he accompanied Steve Jobs on a visit to Canon. Cannon recently introduced a desktop copier which intrigued Steve Jobs. At the meeting Steve Jobs challenged the Canon execs and engineers to design a smaller laser printer the same way they were able to shrink the size of a copier.

In those days a laser printer was about the size of a washing machine or a large business copy machine. The only laser printers available were floor models only; nothing you could put on a desktop.

One year later Steve Jobs was invited back to Canon in Japan to see the results of his challenge. Eric went with Steve, a female translator who worked for Apple Japan, and a Japanese manager working for Apple. Steve Jobs and Eric were the only Americans there at the meeting, and only the Apple employees spoke English; none of the Canon people did. All communication from Steve Jobs to the Canon people were done via the translator.

When they got to Canon, a roomful of proud, beaming Canon engineers and managers presented Steve Jobs with their 'minaturized' laser printer - no longer the size of an American washing machine, just perhaps the size of a Japanese washing machine. Just the same it was not the desktop model that Steve Jobs envisioned.

When the interpreter relayed the question from the Canon folks asking what he thought of the their new laser printer, she really squirmed when Jobs said "Tell them it is a piece of shit!"

Re:Jobs is a good businessman

[mikerich]

But man can he act like an arrogant prick!

He's better than he used to be. 'Infinite Loop: How the World's Most Insanely Great Computer Company Went Insane' by Michael S. Malone has many of his famous diatribes against pretty much anyone he met.

Great book BTW, it shows that Apple is a company that couldn't live with Steve Jobs, but certainly couldn't live without him.

A fascinating person (I'm sure psychology students in the future will have him as a case example), without his drive, Woz would never have finished the Apple ][, but his personality alienated people when Apple really needed them.

Best wishes,
Mike.

Innovative, elegant, anthropomorphic,

[watchful.babbler]

Something to remember is that Jobs' loyalty in that meeting was to John Doerr, not to Dean Kamen and the Segway. When a friend and business associate comes over and says, "Hey, I'm thinking about sinking around $40 billion into an untested product from an eccentric genius, could you drop by and feel this thing out," playing go-along-to-get-along with the eccentric is precisely the wrong thing to do. If the players can't stand up to a couple of hours of intense questioning, maybe they're not the right people to handle a major product launch. (And, yes, maybe they weren't.)

In any case, I think that Jobs' intense questioning proves that he really was engaged with the product; he treated it just as he would anything Apple designed, and insisted that it hold to the same rigorous standards. That his fears turned out to be well-founded suggests that, no matter how his worries were couched (he does seem to have a penchant for incontinence as metaphor, doesn't he?), his call for a solid business plan, a real launch strategy, and the tripartite mantra of "innovation, elegant and anthropomorphism" would have been well-heeded.

Re:Jobs was doing them a favor

[drinkypoo]

I have this problem too. I don't make any claims to any level of intelligence (Occasionally I share some state-sponsored metrics but other than that no) but I definitely have the same manner as Jobs. I really feel no enmity for the man whatsoever, he's done more to advance the future of computing than most have. He's a strong technology advocate, and I can't recall any behavior of his which I considered to be underhanded. Anyway with all that said he and I are both somewhat of a prick -- considered that way of course, I personally think I'm a great guy -- because neither one of us is particularly interested in cushioning the blows of our words.

Let me tell you a little story of something that happened to me when I was doing level 2 support at Tivoli. I am fairly certain that it could not possibly be covered by any NDA because I forget all the pertinent technical details :) I shared an office with two coworkers and one of them was telling the customer something on the phone that wasn't true. I asked her to put them on hold and discuss that with me for a moment, and then she like waved me off. Now keep in mind I'm 19 or 20 at this time, and she's well old enough to be my mother, so I think you can see the clash of attitudes here. Anyway she proceeded to tell them this incorrect information and when she hung up I explained to her exactly why (technically) what she was telling them was wrong. This is from information I got from a developers' meeting, mind you. Straight from the you know whose you know what.

Okay so this lady gets all pissed off and storms out to go piss and moan to our manager. So during our next meeting the boss just slammed her and praised me for going to these meetings and for trying to tell her the actual answer, hooray. This story has a fairly happy ending. But the point is that if I had been nicer about it, I probably could have told her in a way that would not have pissed her off so bad. While I came out ahead because I had been dotting and crossing, and didn't cuss her out or anything, I should have understood then (as I do now) that she would be predisposed to ignore my advice. Similarly, if Jobs wants to change the world, he has to be a little more gentle on occasion.

Re:this comment is copyrighted, but nice try, JOBS

[buckhead_buddy]

Interestingly, Apple's relationship with Smalltalk didn't end with the well known adoption of the mouse, windows, and so forth.

Squeak is a modern Smalltalk-like environment created by a research team at Apple. Disney took up the mantle when Apple decided they didn't want to develop it further. And now the project is on its own. But it's an interesting footnote to the relation of Apple and Smalltalk that not many people know about.

Squeezing out the last drop

[r2ravens]

Yup.

Linux users (for example) are known to keep aging computer hardware useful long after it was left for dead by its former Windows using owner. The open source community consistently manages to squeeze every last ounce of processing power from even the most aged hardware available.

The fastest machines in my house are two PII-400 boxen being used as primary workstation and server running RH9. They do everything I want them to do. And BTW, they were given to me for free. The other server is a P233 on an AT motherboard.

Similarly, Mac users are known to keep their computers as primary productivity tools until the gears fall off.

Right again, but even better. 1 - iMac 333, 1 - iMac 233, 1 - 8500, 1 - 7600, 1 - PB1400c-166, 1 - PB165c, and, recently acquired from the fine dumpster outside my apartment, a 6100-66/DOS all in working shape and useful in one way or another. Oh yeah, a pair of 6100-66's loaned to friends.

The only MS stuff in the house is a Compaq EVO laptop from work running W2K.

I'd say thay pretty well supports oscast's argument of market-share vs. installed-base. And I'm sure there are many here who could provide similar stats. The real question is - how can we be counted?