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GIF Patent Prepares to Expire

pajamacore writes "It's worth noting that 20 June 2003 is GIF Liberation Day, the day on which US Patent 4,558,302 expires. The patent describes the LZW compression algorithm used in .gif files. That said, maybe the prices of image editing applications will drop slightly when corporations don't have to pay fees to Unisys."

23 of 632 comments (clear)

  1. Or not... by VertigoAce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That said, maybe the prices of image editing applications will drop slightly when corporations don't have to pay fees to Unisys.

    Or maybe they'll figure that the vast majority of their customers won't know and they'll pocket the savings.

    1. Re:Or not... by VJoseph · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But when you think about software like Photoshop, how much of the price really comes from paying royalties to Unisys? It can't really be large enough to have any real impact on the price.

    2. Re:Or not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not sure how much, but I work at a medium size company who produces multimedia applications (yes your mom would have heard of us) and .GIF support was expensive enough that we left it out of the product.

    3. Re:Or not... by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or maybe they'll figure that the vast majority of their customers won't know and they'll pocket the savings.

      That would only work if there was a monopoly on image editing applications. Otherwise, if one company tried to pocket the savings, another would undercut that company and take all its customers.

    4. Re:Or not... by KentoNET · · Score: 5, Funny

      Riiiight...Photoshop "price"...don't tell Senator Hatch that.

      --
      "You tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson is...never try. Heh!" -Homer
    5. Re:Or not... by damiam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For 99% of the work a non-professional would need to do, it is just as good as Photoshop. If you're a professional and you need those extra features, then you can afford Photoshop.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    6. Re:Or not... by ComaVN · · Score: 5, Funny

      You missed one:

      5. Using a toothpick to undermine the foundations of the Adobe headquarters.

      That'll show 'm.

      What have you got against Adobe, anyway?

      --
      Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
  2. Oh yeah? by neurostar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That said, maybe the prices of image editing applications will drop slightly when corporations don't have to pay fees to Unisys.

    Ha! Hahaha. Like they'll drop their prices...

    I bet your typical photoshop user has no idea that GIFs are patented. Which means Adobe will feel no pressure whatsoever to lower prices. Besides, people will still pay $500 for photoshop. And the price drop would be what? maybe $20 max?

    neurostar
    1. Re:Oh yeah? by f97tosc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I bet your typical photoshop user has no idea that GIFs are patented. Which means Adobe will feel no pressure whatsoever to lower prices

      The question is not how well the end user understands the cost structure of producing software (of course they don't, and of course they have no clue that some patent expired.)

      The question is how competitive the market for these software products are. If it is competitive, prices will fall regardless of what the customer knows. Not out of the godness of the companies hearts, but because they will have to or lose business to the competition. Of course the opposite is true as well; everybody knows that CDs have a ridiculous markup but nothing is happening because that market is not competitive at all.

      Tor

    2. Re:Oh yeah? by Progman3K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look, the whole POINT of patents expiring is that they then pass into the public domain, to enrich us ALL and NO ONE has to be made to pay. It is indeed a benevolent idea.

      My company actually LEFT OUT .GIF support in our application, because we didn't want to force our clients to pay for the license.

      And now, we are going to ADD it and NOT increase our price for that.

      That's fair use of an expired patent.

      --
      I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  3. Expires on July 7th, 2004 internationally by LanMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    As noted on the GD website, the patent doesn't expire internationally until July 7th of next year.

  4. It was a restrictive patent by agm · · Score: 5, Informative

    We used their LZW compression algorithm in our product (for compressing product update files). It compresses text quite well for very little code. I asked Unisys what the fees would be for the use of this and it was US $2000! As a result we don't have that compression option in countries that have this patent.

    Stuff paying $2000 for something that can be represnted by less than 30 lines of code.

  5. Re:So what are you saying? by LanMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry, not yet. As noted on the GD website , the patent doesn't expire internationally until July 7th of next year. So no GIF support in the GD library for another year. :-(

  6. Youth.... by Chester+K · · Score: 5, Funny

    That said, maybe the prices of image editing applications will drop slightly when corporations don't have to pay fees to Unisys

    Ahh what I wouldn't give to be young and naive again...

    --

    NO CARRIER
  7. Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the recent Slashdot chat:
    02:17 <+Questions> adpowers asks: Slashdot has a heavy slant toward open and free technologies. Why haven't you guys adopted PNGs or some other image format instead of sticking with GIFs?
    02:18 <@CmdrTaco> Because PNG still doesn't work worth shit with most browsers.
    02:18 <@CmdrTaco> We're idealists when possible, but practical when we have to be.
    What browsers is CmdrTaco talking about? PNG8 works great in most browsers, and PNG8 is all that's necessary to replace GIFs. Slashdot doesn't use animated GIFs, so they have no reason to not move to PNG8. PNG can save Slashdot money, as properly compressed PNG files are smaller than GIF.

    I'd pay for a Slashdot subscription if Slashdot switched to PNGs because then I'd see they were bandwidth/cost concious.
    1. Re:Tell CmdrTaco you want PNG! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which I why I repeatedly used the term PNG8. 8 bit PNG, 256 colors, single-bit transparency. Just like GIF. Works great, even in IE.

  8. Re:Naive Question by swbrown · · Score: 5, Informative

    PNG is supported on every browser and has been for years, even PocketPCs support it.

    'gif'-like PNGs, truecolor PNGs, and boolean transparent PNGs work great everywhere, but IE (for Windows; IE for PocketPC and Mac render fine, go figure) can't handle variable alpha transparent PNGs without tricks (and the 'AlphaImageLoader' trick fails on https:// addresses due to another IE bug, horray Microsoft).

    There's no reason to use non-animated gif rather than PNG. PNGs are smaller (some crappy programs do a poor job of compressing them, convert PNG to PNG in GraphicsMagik to shrink), can do truecolor so you don't have ugly dithered gif graphics, and can do variable alpha transparency (although 5 year old bugs in x86/IE require detecting IE and spitting out ugly MS-specific HTML for this; most people just settle for boolean transparency, which is a shame). Even ignoring the functionality that is hard or impossible to use on x86/IE due to IE being a buggy mess, PNG still does more than gif (except animations - almost no one supports MNG right now).

    Recent versions of gd and PHP have support for all these PNG modes. I know, as I fixed them. ;)

  9. I'll always remember GIF.... by 1nv4d3r · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'll always remember GIF for introducing me to a huge underground world of BBS porn when I was a kid.

    I used to string a 50ft telephone cord from my family's computer into the nearest phone jack (in the kitchen) every night and download GIFs over zmodem at 2400baud. It's a wonder I could stay awake in school.

    Since the day we upgraded from CGA to VGA (256 color!) graphics, I've been a sick sick puppy.

    Thank you, GIF! You made it all possible.

  10. Look what happened to other patent holders... by JRHelgeson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Way back in the day, there was a company called Wang. Wang made terminals and stuff for the old mainframes, they also invented and patented the Single Inline Memory Module, or SIMM memory and the SIMM slot. Yes, they were the ones that thought of putting memory on a stick and plugging it into the motherboard. Prior to that, all the computer memory came soldered onto the motherboard. So, if you bought memory back in the day when it cost $45/meg, $1 of that was going to Wang. Wang was making huge bucks off their patent. It was their cash cow. Then the patent expired... Their cash cow quit giving milk, and they shriveled up. They got bought for a song in January 1999 by a company called Getronics. I guess thats what happens when you fail to innovate. I wonder what'll happen to Unisys...?

    --
    Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
  11. Re:I'll always remember ASCII art.... by k1llt1me · · Score: 5, Funny

    I had a similar experience with ASCII art and a 300 baud modem...

  12. Re:better question to ask is... by heretic108 · · Score: 5, Informative

    IMO, while people persist with quesionable browsers like Internet Explorer, there'll be a place for GIFs.

    AFAIK, GIF is the only image format that supports transparent backgrounds and renders properly in IE.

    This means that if you're using transparent image backgrounds, your site will look like shit on 90+ % of visitors' screens - unless you use GIF. Sad but true.

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
  13. LZW Poem by rnanderson · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ode to LZW Compression

    Abe Lempel, Jacob Ziv and Terry Welch
    Discovered a neat algorithm to squelch
    CompuServe incorporated it into the GIF
    Good programmers soon caught the drift
    The format was published, free and open
    Many useful things started to happen
    Then Unisys Corp purchased the rights
    And changed the terms on LZW overnight
    The useful algorithm was off limits
    Ransom to corporate greed and profits
    On June 20, 2003, the LZW patent expired
    Shame on Unisys for what has transpired
    Someday Unisys books will be in arrears
    While the ideas of LZW survive the years

  14. Example of broken IP laws by Felinoid · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is a GREAT example of broken IP laws.
    Before patenting the compression technology they placed it into the public domain.
    After that IBM patented it AND THEN Unisys filed a patent.
    Unisys got to keep it's patent becouse they can prove they had it first. But that proof comes in the form of publishing it.
    In other words anything you place into the public domain you or anyone else can clame later.
    If there was no GPL the first jerk who came along would sue Linus and RMS for IP theft and win.
    The reason Compuserve used this compression technology was simply it was placed into the public domain.
    But today there is no public domain just IP waiting for someone to scoop up.
    You should not be able to file for and receave patent protection for anything that has already been published.

    Well this nightmare will soon be over.

    --
    I don't actually exist.